This IS wrong area, and I don't want to be insensitive, but you might understand..

[worriedsilly]

I have a dd. She is just 7.

I am so worried, alone, bemused, shocked and gobsmacked. Suddenly nothing that applies to anyone else applies to us or her.

I am posting here, where I know some of you must want to slap me! as my problem is so not actually special needs one, and many you have children who will never have such an education issue and this must seem so so trivial to those with serious ongoing concerns. I am sorry and also sensitive to that and will have the thread moved asap if it is wrong to be here. But I know that here some parents must have experienced this same sense of having the rug pulled and perhaps it is a common ground. A similar experience, with a different cause.

She has been increasingly unhappy, anxious and 'odd'. Coming home from school with a red nose and mouth from picking her skin and holes in her clothes from chewing. Naturally we raised this at school and their take was she is achieving well but has some social skills to learn. Seems happy at school, interacts well and contributes, but has (reading between the lines and teacher speak) tendency to be lazy with writing and presentation. Chewing etc is common in this age and she must learn it is not the done thing.
Her writing & social stuff is a blip - it isn't up to her usual standards in other areas.

So, we bit the expensive bullet, and took her to an ed psych privately. I am very aware that for a child who is achieving well there is no money in the pot for such things so we just got on with it.

So, findings suggest her anxiety and failure to socialise is to do with her high i.q. and cognitive development. She operates at between ages 9 and 12, occasionally 15 in some areas.

Suddenly nothing that is 'standard' can be trusted. The standard reading scheme, the standard year of school per year of life thing, the standard girls make friends with girls and have things in common and go for pizza......all that never fitted my dd. Now we know why.

I wondered if she had dyspraxia and some emotional issues - the ed psych feels her cognitive development is at the root of all her clumsy nervy ways and if we can get her to a comfortable learning zone with like minded learners she will be relaxed, stimulated and thrive. Her self esteem will rise and she she will stop trying to 'fit in' where she simply does not.

I posted here as I thought some of you might know that same feeling of knowing that the reality is...school can't deliver this. They (nor I) can wave a magic wand of funding or provision and make school fit this individual.

My poor girl is going to have to get her spiky diamond shape peg self and just bloody well fit the state education small round hole.

I feel sad and under enormous pressure. Scared of approaching school and totally unsure of how to look after my dd.

Argh1!

Thanks - I'll put the op there too. I posted in special ed needs but it seems quiet over there, where as I know there are some absolute experts on all things educational and related to delivering personalised schooling over here

I just feel suddenly everything is different. She is different. We are different.

Society isn't very good with differences and I'm worried for her.

Oh she could come to play here LeonieDelt. They'd get on great.

Mine is a little different in that she is not on the autism scale (according to ed psych and I agree with this) but I bet they'd have a great old play.

Mine wants to be like the others too, although she is torn as she is not interested in their stuff. I guess she is torn between wanting to be herself and wanting to be like everyone else. We also have the comparing and the feeling inadequate because something isn't right or is different.

Sigh.

I don't think my dd is at all likely to get a statement. After all she is achieving so isn't a school problem. I am hoping maybe a move to another class for reading or something. I just don't know.

Worriedsilly - It may be worth looking into this more just to be 100% sure of things. Girls with Asperger's can be very good at adapting and copying and harder to spot. Have a read if you can of Tony Attwood's "Complete guide to Aspergers" and just have a think if maybe she does or doesn't fit more in the profile than you might imagine. It is not to say that this is what is underlying her being different to her peers, but knowing where I started out my thinking about DD#1 and where I am now with a confirmed diagnosis I am glad I read up and learned more about a lot of things, many irrelevant to us of course but until you learn you can't be sure.

Statements are not just about academic acheivement, so don't dismiss that as a possibility if you feel she needs support in school for social skills for example. IPSEA would be a good place to start for statementing advice

The feeling secure in myself is really hard. I still feel maybe this is all just a bit of a fuss and there is no big deal and I'm all wrong and imagining it. That's even with the ed psych!!

I'll get hold of that book for sure beautifulgirls - because even if she isn't , I bet some of the strategies and ideas will help. Whatever the label, cause or cure the difficulties exist and need working on.

Anxiety sucks. Fancy being made anxious because you are clever Jesus what have we come to??

Hi Worriedsilly,
I would also recommend the Tony Attwood book, and any others you can get on autism, as anxiety and how to help is often a common theme. My experience is not the same as yours, we have a little boy aged 4.5. He is also high functioning autistic, and has a statement. He is in recption at primary school. he does not have any of the social issues yet, he is not interested in other children yet, and does not acknowledge them but I'm sure the time will come when he is keen to fit in and we will have different issues to face then. Our son is very very clever, way ahead academically of the work and tasks that they kids do in reception, and although not tested I would assume he has a high IQ also. My sons statement is to kep him sat down, focussed in class etc, he has a very short attention span and is easily distracted. Autism does not necessarily mean 'learning difficulties', although my son's autistic traits inevitably will make his learning difficult, but we have been told he could go straight into school aged 7, and pick it up then. A friend at work has 3 girls, and her eldest was always more difficult than the others, they always adapted to fit with what would make her happy, she was diagnosed ASD aged 14.

Ask for a copy of your school's inclusion policy. I would put money on there being a note of 'gifted and talented' in the behaviours that the school looks to include. It may give you some ideas as to what the school could be doing.
It might also be worth seeing the SENco at the school. As such, she does have a special educational need - for a more cognitively challenging environment, whilst also struggling more with the social aspects of her peer group. Let them know that she is showing signs of anxiety due to her learning environment.
If this environment is not for her, what are your alternatives?

Oh you see I knew the sn section would 'get it'. You get it. God what a relief.

Our alternatives aunteveil are sadly limited. I work too much to do home ed and there is simply no money for an independent school (were that the right thing) It isn't even a case of a holiday less and no new car - the independent school is just not in reach no matter how many sums I do.

So I have to make state work for her.

The ed psych was absolutely solid that there is no evidence of autism, although she said she was on the look out for it due to our concerns. DD's ability to verbalise and chat and interact is actually very very very good.
Apparently the absolute root of all the traits she displays is anxiety and the root of the anxiety is simply not fitting her mould and the root of not fitting the mould is her cognitive functioning.

In conclusion then...she is a nerd

I will await the actual report and then approach school when they have had time to look at it. One of the things I'll ask for is the inclusion policy - thanks for that. I'll need lots of tips before that meeting!!

Gosh thank you. I am beginning to feel a little less small and panicked and a little more empowered.

I am acutely aware that my situation is so different to many of you on this board, so I just want to say how much I respect the level of stress and energy you all must experience from time to time. . The constant policing of provision must be so draining.
I mean here I am essentially worrying how to ensure dd gets 10 A*'s instead of 10 A's. I get that many are involved in bigger battles. It is bigger than that though, it's hard to watch her fidget and jump and lick and chew and generally look like someone on the edge of a freak out.

Thank you very much.

Nerds rule - I was one too. But not that bright. Hopefully dd will have a happier time than I did. I need to build confidence also.

I'll be back to pick your brains once I have all the info and some plans in place.

Is your daughter on the G & T register? What do your LEA provide for the G & T children? You might find there's a support group for parents.
I've never been in that situation myself, but I do know 1 parent in our area that moved her DD from the same school that I moved my DS from - but for very different reasons! She moved to another local school that was only too pleased to have her. They had others on their G&T register and Liked to keep their high academic achievement prowess, so invested in that area.
Does she have friends out of school that share her interests?

i don't have anything massively important to add ecept to say isn't it interesting how here (the SN place) you get support, understanding and strategies but over there (the GnT place) you get ridiculed and criticised.

You lot are such a lovely bunch. etc

I don't know if they have any register as school have never mentioned anything except that dd is doing well. SO this is totally uncharted waters. Funny how they haven't sort of noticed but I guess when there is 30 of the little critters it is hard to pin point specific strengths. Plus dd is very well behaved so flies below radar imo.

The LEA have a website where they say to approach the school, so we will. There seems no evidence of any extra groups etc. The gifted and talented organisation thingie have some, but the nearest is 120 miles. I live in an isolated small town which has, time and time again, severely limited our choice in all sorts of ways.

I think the miracle of SN board is that you don't actually have to explain yourself. The understanding is there, the knowledge of the anxiety, the potential fear of having to fight, work your ass off, become an expert in something you know nothing of, confront, be arsey, be a pain, be wrong, be right again.... and all that jazz - all that is accepted and understood. Plus everyone here gets that if you trust 'the organisation' to just do the best and be the best....well, it might not work out that way!

I know nothing of anxiety in children. And I don't want to. But I have to. And that is making me scared.

Hi Worried Silly

I am in agreement with all the mums so far and would just add my own personal experience my DD is only 5 but has a statement and her IEP that the teacher has drawn up is focusing on her social skills and her self esteem. DD's teacher is brilliant in that she sets different work for the children in the class to suit their cognitive and physical abilities. So for example my DD is highly intelligent when it comes to reading and word association however she has dyspraxia and her written/ drawing skills are somewhat lacking but she is not made to do the same tasks that the others are and her work is rewarded for the effort she puts in not for the quality.
Can you ask the teachers to note what in particular is stressing your DC out when does she start to chew her sleeves etc is therev a particular subject is it when it is a social activity? Is it at lunchtime? Is she perhaps being bullied?

If she is a bit dyspraxicy can I recommend behavioural optometry. It was another poster on here that raved about it and I thought 'oh what the hell it might be £145 into the ether but at least I've tried'. We went for a session before Christmas and done the exercises intermitently and now got some more to do but he has improved! Yes, improved! He's been to a normal vision express place before and we knew he had fine vision but just couldn't seem to 'see' things. Well we know why now.
Perhaps also finding someone that is a trained NLP might help to take away some of the anxieties. If she stays in the state sector she will evetually meet another female nerd. At least at the mo she can be friends with boys who are also into all the things she is without it sticking out too much. I have to say being 'different' does seem worse for a girl. Boys are quirky anyway - even the NT ones and it's not so noticeable but girls are more social.

Good luck. It is horrible and particularly so when they are so young to see them so ridden by anxiety. I wanted to take mine and live on some remote scottish island somewhere (too cold and chilly though!) to get away from the school, pressure, tutting parents etc. So I think we all know how you feel. I would also, for your own sanity, not worry about the 'what will be' don't think about A* or As (she's 7!). Let her follow her own path. She might be very bright but she might not want to be academic. She might want to be inventive or creative or practical. It would have been helpful if the ed psych could have given you and idea of what her intelligences are and her chosen learning style then the school could also work with her.
Do go and talk to the school. Give them the report. They will have noticed that she is anxious. The problem with a very academic environment for some children (and I am now working in one of these) is that, for an anxious child, the old anxieties get replaced by new ones. Whereever you are, there is a pecking order and in an academic setting this can be down to marks, grades, class positions. So this anxiety becomes just as real. I wonder actually whether someone in her class (the class bitch) hasn't been making little, unheard by adult remarks. Not directly nasty but undercurrent cutting and designed to get a little gang that your daughter, being bright, realises is activily designed to cut her out? Is this possible.
Gracious this is long. Sorry.

i looked out for your post on the g&t board, but couldn't see it? you might want to post it again...

ds1 is v similar. and again has been suspected as/asd/odd for several years, which the ed psych has now ruled out. he does have noted social and anxiety difficulties, but in his case he has just been dx with adhd (he will just completely zone out - it was suggested over the years that this could be because he was bored rigid with the curriculum, or be due to a more neurological attention deficit condition). he's 10 now, but was only v recently assessed properly, rather than teachers discussing in passing what he might have, largely because he was bright enough not to be flagged as any real concern.

so, he's now been coded for both his more able side, and his additional need, (and the psych has noted the anxiety and social issues) and we're going to discuss with school next week how this will play out in that context. the paed also wants us to self refer to the mental health side (it would be camhs in the uk) to address anxiety and phobias. we're trialling vyvanse for a month in the hope that it will enable him to verbalise what's going on in his head.

i also have two dds that are more able - one of them has cerebral palsy so has been hit twice with the 'different' stick. in her case she's a pretty average 8yo in terms of her likes and dislikes, but her peer group are put off because of her (mildish) physical differences and the fact that she can be v adult with her thought processes and this is reflected in her conversation. so far she isn't particularly affected by this... but we still have the occasional bouts of sadness due to 'difference'.

my girls are fine in school, but the jury is still out with ds. he's a real square peg in a round hole (despite being the least 'gifted' officially) and we have been considering home ed for some time. a lot of our decision rides on what school do now with the results of the assessments...

to be honest, i don't really think that the sn board is the right space to discuss specifically g&t school issues, but where the condition co-exists with aspergers etc, there is obv a place to discuss those aspects. it's not unusual for kids who are more able to have social or other difficulties, and that gets discussed 'over there' as well (it isn't usual either, it's just one of those things) but there is definitely a need to consider whether there is a more diagnoseable sn present. kids with sn can of course be more able in the same way. up to you where you post, but please don't be put off the g&t board thinking it's all reading levels and early gcses. i tend to think that ds's issues tend to sit on the g&t board, but it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. and i tend to think that dd2's sit better here - but there's no right answer! be a board whore and put out where you like.

should add that it is perfectly ordinary to have two different ieps running at a time - one to focus on the more 'able' academic side, and one to focus on the additional need, be it social skills, anxiety, or any other issue. the senco and class teacher should be more than capable of dealing with this.

to clarify, in our case ds was assessed by child psych, who did the full raft of assessment inc DSM IV int sched, etc, as well as usual wechsler/ wiat intelligence testing, basc, conners etc. testing took 4 days. usual private ed psych (about £600?) in uk is less thorough and takes half a dayish and usually concentrates on wechsler and wiat... do you know which tests were done on dd, op? it might give some insight into whether a spectrum disorder was specifically assessed, or whether the opinion was more of 'she didn't appear to have any as symptoms during the academic testing'...? in our case she has still come up with a list of helpful suggestions which would be similar to those used by any child with a social communication disorder...

Hi there

As someone with a child quite similar to yours I would definitely suggest you go to CAMHS for a full assessment. I was fobbed off for years with my own child, who also happens to have a very high IQ (top 2%). The trouble with EP's is that they really don't have enough experience IMO in dx and especially in girls. I am not saying for 1 minute that your dd does have AS but I do know that girls are a lot harder to diagnose. I second the Aspergirls book, it is fantastic. Good luck!!