This IS wrong area, and I don't want to be insensitive, but you might understand..

[worriedsilly]

I have a dd. She is just 7.

I am so worried, alone, bemused, shocked and gobsmacked. Suddenly nothing that applies to anyone else applies to us or her.

I am posting here, where I know some of you must want to slap me! as my problem is so not actually special needs one, and many you have children who will never have such an education issue and this must seem so so trivial to those with serious ongoing concerns. I am sorry and also sensitive to that and will have the thread moved asap if it is wrong to be here. But I know that here some parents must have experienced this same sense of having the rug pulled and perhaps it is a common ground. A similar experience, with a different cause.

She has been increasingly unhappy, anxious and 'odd'. Coming home from school with a red nose and mouth from picking her skin and holes in her clothes from chewing. Naturally we raised this at school and their take was she is achieving well but has some social skills to learn. Seems happy at school, interacts well and contributes, but has (reading between the lines and teacher speak) tendency to be lazy with writing and presentation. Chewing etc is common in this age and she must learn it is not the done thing.
Her writing & social stuff is a blip - it isn't up to her usual standards in other areas.

So, we bit the expensive bullet, and took her to an ed psych privately. I am very aware that for a child who is achieving well there is no money in the pot for such things so we just got on with it.

So, findings suggest her anxiety and failure to socialise is to do with her high i.q. and cognitive development. She operates at between ages 9 and 12, occasionally 15 in some areas.

Suddenly nothing that is 'standard' can be trusted. The standard reading scheme, the standard year of school per year of life thing, the standard girls make friends with girls and have things in common and go for pizza......all that never fitted my dd. Now we know why.

I wondered if she had dyspraxia and some emotional issues - the ed psych feels her cognitive development is at the root of all her clumsy nervy ways and if we can get her to a comfortable learning zone with like minded learners she will be relaxed, stimulated and thrive. Her self esteem will rise and she she will stop trying to 'fit in' where she simply does not.

I posted here as I thought some of you might know that same feeling of knowing that the reality is...school can't deliver this. They (nor I) can wave a magic wand of funding or provision and make school fit this individual.

My poor girl is going to have to get her spiky diamond shape peg self and just bloody well fit the state education small round hole.

I feel sad and under enormous pressure. Scared of approaching school and totally unsure of how to look after my dd.

Argh1!

The first EP who saw DD in school also told us she didn't think DD was on the spectrum. Fast forward 18 months and we have a definite diagnosis. If I had listened and not looked into it myself then pushed for answers we could still be believing her issues were not ASD related.

I really would push for further info to give your DD the support she needs. I read books by age 3, devoured all books all the time, my reading age was 13 when I was 5, I couldn't write legibly until I was 9ish, I grasp complex concepts easily but struggle with simple ideas and have really really had to learn social skills. I also went through a long period of self harm and it would be fair to say i have taken wrong turns in life. As a baby I didn't smile and my DD with brain injury already has better turn taking skills than I do.

I am doing a third degree and I am very very nerdy. I don't think I am dyslexic (dx very young, but not told till I was 18 and failed exams) and have been told I should find out if I am on the spectrum, but tbh I can cope and my IQ is in the top % of the population. I got no support at home or at school (thirty years ago it just wasn't there) but I think things would have been different if I had been given better support, I just thought i was stupid and different to everyone, thought it was my fault I didn't fit in.

An Ed Psych is not qualified to diagnose autism and I would echo what others are saying here, about looking into it further yourself.

Hey

You don't need to apologise for being here. Severe anxiety and social difficulties are much the same, whether the cause is high iq, low iq or asd. Picking at her skin, lacking skills to build friendships.... Your poor little 7 year old. These really matter, and (to me anyway) qualify as special needs. CAMHS take referrals for anxiety alone, and it might be worth asking. Obviously when/if it all magically vanishes, the g&t board might start to feel more like home!

You might want to google twice exceptional, and things like dyspraxia, stealth dyslexia, aspergirls, women and girls with ADD. If you do have lingering asd doubts, your GP can refer you to great ormond street or somewhere similar. Most standard services struggle to diagnose females, older kids and the gifted.

Scoring at 9 years equivalent for some things and 15 for others plus poor spelling makes me a bit . Surely the gap needs some explanation? Now, all that said, the ed psych is right about needing a different environment. Some prep schools have scholarships, otherwise think about flexi-schooling, and for her to be with big kids for some lessons and younger ones for others. Plus the usual suggestions of geeky chess clubs etc. Have you've watched (or read) Roald Dahl's Matilda with her yet?

Oh yeah, ds1 definitely didn't have asd according to school and ed psych (the previous year he definitely didnt have adhd either). And there was no evidence of his sensory difficulties or high anxiety levels.

Another family member (female high iq) didn't have ADHD as she wasn't antisocial and failing massively.

When you say "lazy with writing", do you think it's a physical difficulty (fine motor skills) or a question of organisation?

It might be that she is feeling anxious because of not being able to get her ideas and thoughts on paper quickly enough. If this is the case then the SENCO should be able to use this as a basis for IEP targets, either helping with fine motor skills and handwriting practice or finding another way for your dd to record her work, eg typing it.

The school should definitely be looking at helping with social skills.

I also agree that the 'spikey' profile with an ability range of 9 - 15yrs should have alerted the Ed Psych to potential difficulties.

Hi Worried Silly.

If you want to look into aspergers more, then a site I find helpful is help4aspergers, especially this page and this one.

However, regardless of the cause, the real issue at present is your daughters anxiety.

These aren't cures, but may be a way of helping her manage it a bit. Is there something she finds really soothing? Or something she finds really relaxing? It may be bouncing on a trampoline, wrapping up in her quilt and sticking her head under her pillow, curling up with a favourite book. If so, could you try and direct her to that if she has come home anxious (from school, activity, playdate or whatever). Before you try to talk to her about whatever has happened to make her feel anxious (if you do), let her chill out and reduce the anxiety.

Equally, and I don't know if she will be capable of this, but it is worth a try, if you can do some relaxation techniques with her at home (not when she is wound up to begin with) slowly breathing in and out, imagining she is lying on a deserted island/beach, emptying her head of any thoughts and just feeling really peaceful and relaxed. These sessions can easily take over 30 minutes, but it is a great feeling if she can do it.

If/As she gets used to doing this, try and get her to empty her head and relax/feel peaceful without doing a full session. Again when she isnt stressed or upset, try and see if she can do a short session of slowing her breathing and relaxing. If she can do this, then she will eventually be able to use the techniques when her anxiety is building up, before it gets too much.

She may not be able to do it, it was something I was shown how to do twice in my mid teens and over the years I have worked on it until I can use it to help me if a situation is getting too much for me. If you decide to look into it and work on it, just be aware not to stress over her getting it/not getting it, just introduce it as some quiet family time and see how she gets on.

Hope some of this is helpful and not just stuff you already do.

Glass

Hello

Sorry had to pop off last night as real life invaded.

Gosh thank you for these detailed and considered replies. I realise now I posted in special educational needs, which didn't seem to generate as much knowledge and experience as I knew SN would. Thank you for helping me.

I think I am struggling to see dd as gifted and talented. I mean, her I.Q is probably about 125 so good, but not off the chart. I wonder if that would 'qualify' her to be seen as a gifted learner.

I am now going to read and digest. I am split in half. One half wants to get cracking and address the I.Q thing. The other wants to concentrate on the anxiety. Actually thirds, as a good chunk of me wants to go to bed and stay there.

Right - read and digest.

HolyCalamityJane - thanks. I will ask the teachers to see if they can spot a pattern. I would be interested to hear if her chewing starts when the social stuff starts. Like break time.

flyingmum - I too have wondered if being a bit 'different' seems more obvious in girls. In so much as if you aren't in to everything Disney Princess or crafty etc, then there doesn't seem to be much going on in the pink toy aisle. However I have no boys, so I'm sure boys who would like to craft or create have the same dilema. We had wondered about seeing a behavioural whatsit for the same reason - to totally make sure we looked into everything. Maybe we could do that when we are financially better off (ed psych was £££)
I agree with all your pov. I agree there is probably some low level teasing/comparing/cutting her out. In fact I know there is and I know who it comes from. Difficult though as, harsh as it is, it is normal and the way school is. Especially for a child like mine. I don't know what could be done about it - human nature after all. As you so rightly say, if that worry was removed, another would soon fill the space.

Outofbody - I posted in special education needs, I think I had a mental block about G&T. Tbh, her main issue isn't how to best learn, it's how to best be happy.
Of your children I reckon my dd sounds most like your 8yo dd. The whole adult conversation and thought processes. Children are put of my d as she can be a bit a lot impatient, bossy and aloof. I'll take any oppurtunity to be any sort of whore these days

BanrockStation - I am thinking (today at least) that maybe a trip to GP with a view to some sort of referral for this anxiety might be a good thing. Do you know if never occured to me before? Probably as I didn't actually know what was going on or why. Some light is begining to shine now though. The cognitive tests have illuminated her a little.

slowburner - I know what you mean and to some extent how you feel. I was so so so shy and self conscious at school. I wish something could have helped me, I'm sure I woul dhave achieved better and been less sad. I'll push for my dd, my confidence is rising all the time. I'll make sure all stones are turned over. Thank you for your cautionary tale. 3 degrees. Wow. Respect!!

mariamagdalena - thank you for the reassurance about posting. Be assured I wont stamp about asking how to push for Latin at age 10
If CAHMS take referals for anxiet alone, then maybe that is a path for us. Or am I exagerating and making trouble where there is none/normal amount?

Why don't I feel sure of my ground?

The ed psych take on the blip in skills was that her confidence is low and her anxiety high in these specific areas, so she is underperforming. I think. I'll need to scour the report properly before I can swear to that.

coppertop - so yes, as above really, regarding that blip. I wonder if it is so, if her state of mind has influenced her performance to such an extent.

AGlassHalfEmptyNoLonger - thanks, she does enjoy some intense reading and that seems to help her zone out. Also she listens to audio books which is brilliant - I'd really recommend it to anyone with a fried child. She uses headphone, or a docking station or she has a pillow that she can lie on that plays the ipod. Off she goes with the Famous 5 to Smugglers Top and seems more relaxed and less clumsy when she arrives back. Best thing we ever got!
I give her chamomilla remedy (which I first used as Teetha treatment) and she says it helps. SO that's good enough for me.

Whew. I wnated to respond to your posts properly. Please feel free to ignore my ramblings.

Ok. Plan

Await report
See school (wibble)
See GP re anxiety
Look in to optomitrist.

Apologies for the vast amount of spelling mistakes. I know they are there, I just can't see them

Your dd sounds absolutely gorgeous, Worried.

Fingers crossed for you that things get better for her at school soon.

You say that independent school is out of the question but could you run to a tutor once a week for an hour? Not to do very formal things with her but to stimulate her and give her confidence. For example a caring person with an English degree who might like to discuss literature with her would be fun or perhaps a retired teacher of science

My son had various difficulties combined with a scarily high IQ and, had a tutor from age 7. He told us (when much older) that he found it good to be in an atmosphere where he could voice what he thought without fear of other children's ridicule. He had a chewing phase for a few months too.

Those are interesting things to think about pippop1. Like a tailored governess program. Interesting.

Currently reading about dyspraxia and the idea of getting her assessed. We simply haven't the money after the ed psych - I will need to get a loan to cover that. SO another £500 on ot is scary.

But then have come this far...crazy to stop before the thing is dealt with.

I just can't see school or gp being interested in referring her, as she is achieving. Am also not entirely sure we'll even have a specialised ot here - we are in the middle of nowhere. There is a private ot dedicated to paeds about 60 miles away. That would be ideal if we could only fund it.

hmm.

We are taking her to the GP. I am not sure if we should be asking for cahms for the anxiety or ot for the maybe dyspraxia or both or neither or what.

Thanks coppertop - she is rather lovely. We like her. They are all little stars aren't they?

Ok. 125 isn't off the chart, but in theory anything above 120 is 'gifted'. That said, with children who have such potentially spiky profiles (she obv has some way up, and some more in the normal range which averages it out at 125, I'm guessing.... then there are significant reasons to try and work out what the spiky profile means, reasons for it, etc etc. in theory, if the lower scores are ironed out a bit, the overall average iq will go up etc etc. So without the anxiety or whatever is behind it, the average would be higher.

Ds1 probably has a similar profile - his numbers range from 156 to 116. The psych says school have an obligation to support both his 'gifted' needs and his ADHD. His overall scores are the lowest of all three of my kids. That doesn't mean his needs are the lowest. As a result of his profile, his needs are actually the highest of the three, despite the fact that the girls' overall scores are way higher. He needs far more support, and it's impossible to treat the 'bright' bit and the sn is isolation. You have to look at it holistically.

You really should post on g&t. There are a whole bunch of kids who have confidence issues, anxiety, social stuff going on. Some of the discussion does revolve around more straightforward curriculum needs, but not much tbh. Most of it is dealing with problems caused by being different. Bit like here, really...

My IQ was supposedly over 140 as a child and I could play the piano by ear before I was four years old. I learned to read music at the same time as I learned to read. Was also a "tomboy" and very sensitive. Boastful isn't it? Especially coming from the underachiever that I am now. But I am not able to make full use of the abilities I have, or once had, because I have an ASD.

The Ed Psych who assessed me told my parents vaguely that I might have some problems in later life. Bit of an understatement that and my parents didn't see fit to tell me until, well, some bad things had happened.

There is no reason at all why you shouldn't post here and in G&T. Your marvellous-sounding daughter has additional needs and she is a lucky girl indeed to have such an involved and loving parent, she really is.

I'm reading this book the and it's very affirming and validating. I'm also remembering difficulties from my childhood which I had forgotten which is helping me to understand my autistic DS.

An ASD in girls isn't necessarily one which presents differently; it is also perceived differently, by parents and professionals.

Just some food for thought. All the very best

You should be able to get her assessed for Dyspraxia via your GP, I would ask for that. Also her anxiety etc. sound as if she should be on the SEN register if for nothing else as BESD (behaviour, emotional and social difficulties). You may need to request she is put on the register, and nag them; I would also request that they set up an IEP for her (which doesn't just have to have educational targets on it, but can have social ones too).
I also wouldn't despair that if this school isn't right for her no school will be, one of my friends moved her son from the "best" school in the town to a "rougher" one and he thrived at the latter, because they were more flexible. You might also want to talk to your local parent partnership.

I'd also agree that ASD is often overlooked/misunderstood in girls, someone I know was only diagnosed at about 40 after her son was diagnosed, and it really explains a lot, both to her and those who know her.

Apologies for delay in posting, busy rl here! No time to sit and think.

outofbodyexperience - I agree her average would be higher if she were a little less anxious, although the ep was amazing at tapping in to her and getting her to really enjoy herself. Essentially her spelling brought her down. Another spike in her profile. I think - the report will reveal all.
Blimey 156 on testing. That is just....wow. Wow. What kind of brain genes do you carry!? My other dc is clearly not in this sort of bracket at all - she's going to be more of your leaping of bridges and climbing mountains kinda girl. It's a refreshing change in fact.

WinterisComing - wqow again to your amazing cognitive function. Thank you for your kind word. My parenting aim is that if dd chooses to be a pole dancer or a pilot or a sahm or live in isolation or become a nun or run a cafe or run a law firm or knit or anything at all....it will be her choice and she will have had choices. Lots of open doors through which she can pass at any time of her choosing.
SO true what you say about the girls thing. DD looks all that is the opposite of having specific needs and yet is you scratch below the surface or see her at the right time...it's all there. Just heavily masked and compensated for.

Hence I am bloody going to nail this issue.
To that end - I have an informal appt at a private OT (which we have no money for) and also a GP appt to ask for Cahms(?)/ot referral. I doubt I will get either, and I also doubt we have the specialst people we need in this area - but I am going to try. I hear the LEA is pants and gives nothing to noone. Not even those with clear and apparent need. So I am realistic, but also pretty adept at the gist of the gab where I have faith in myself.

mummytime - I didn't know the anxiety alone could be an IEP. That is interesting. There are so many roots to this issue, and a couple of issues too. COmplex stuff.

LeonieDelt - since reading the dyspraxia stuff I have pretty much diagnosed dh. He's always falling over breezes and walking into doors. It used to drive me insane but you know I do really wonder if he is actually dyspraxic.

All the posts here have built my faith and I have gone from wibbling and tears to having a clear plan and being pretty sure of my ground. Thanks to you experts!

I have read through several G&T threads and they seem very relevant and I can relate to some of the posters stories. SO I guess I should decamp there when I am approaching school
Although I maintain that for insight and tips on how to focus, be firm, know the system and work that system to gain the best for a child - this is the place. SO I will probably be back very shortly!!

YOu have helped me tremendously. Thank you.

lol at genes. they don't get it from me... well, ds might get his attention issues from me, but that's about it. a lucky confluence i think. i'm more wordy and literary, and dh is a mathsy engineer. in isolation we're lazy as feck but can pass mustard in our own areas if the stars align. for some reason the dcs seem to fire on all cylinders. it's kinda odd because it skews my thinking about ability, but fortunately (heh) we've got enough going on with the cp and adhd to think about ti too much.

and brains are a bit of a family joke... dd2 has brain damage from her birth injury, and dh got blown up at work and is a brain injury survivor... ds1's adhd/ social/ sensory issues may or may not be cortisol related as he was bathed in the the stuff from 10 weeks gestation when dh got blown up and given a 20% chance of survival. so brains a re a bit of a hobby round these parts...

Well I typed loads of replies outofbodyexperience but they all sounded insensitive and rude, where they were meant to be funny. Anyway I think you and yours should always buy lottery tickets as stats don't seem to apply to you

I have the handwriting programme Right from the Start coming in the post. I don't suppose for one minute that dd will actually tolerate a load of worksheets and following curly lines. But I can try.

Oddly the right from the start programme has been suprisingly well tolerated by my DS. After a month or so he started to see the improvement in his writing for himself which has motivated him to keep at it.

10 mins a day is enough for sustained effort at something they find hard. It's one of those things which is best done little and often so we tackle it after brekkie when he's at his brightest, without fail, every single day.

Tackle the anxiety first - once that is under control you'll get to see the "real" child and both of you will be so much happier. My lea EP sad my DS is too bright to have AS - that's total baloney - all it does is enable him to "mask" some of his difficulties, and see his difference to the "norm", which can make him feel awful at times.

You are so right about the anxiety. Actually you know for my money she can write like a spider for her whole life as long as she is happy!
My worry is that if we nail the writing then some other anxiety will fill the space. Oh the thought of that makes me feel panicky!
I'll talk to the G.P. very carefully and make sure they know it is the anxiety we are chasing down here - the rest is the frilly stuff.

I am also a little concerned that I won't have the energy to target the writing programme every day for 10 mins. I'm crap at all this organised routine stuff.

Oh the wibbles are back!!

On the plus side the e.p feels that her anxiety comes from not being amongst 'peers' and comparing her writing. So perhaps we are at the root problem.