LEA refused assessment.more advice needed please

[Madprest]

In the letter they require further information from school as well as a detailed assessment report from Ed Psych. Do they not ask school for info before making decision? And that the report from ed psych needed..this is what we want to find out if she as a learning disability. A meeting is suggested with us, school staff and an SEN and Disability Officer (even though they don't say who and when this is). As anybody been offered this and what it entails.
Could somebody tell me what the education take notice of regarding grades, is it teacher assesssments or test levels? I find that teacher assessment grades are much higher than her test level grades.

I was very surprised when I received her school records that there wasn't much info in them. Only got IEP's, School Reports, Attendance and one test that was done for SENCO in YR 2 (she is in YR 5 now). This was not sent to Education as they sent me all copies what school sent them. Nothing sent from SENCO whatsoever. School make me feel I am over reacting.
Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
(Apologies if this is all mumble...too much going on in my head)

"I think in Madprest DD case it would be useful for her to apply for a SA to fully identify her childs difficulties as many LA's EP's duties are now only for SA purposes due to cut backs."

But this is not the purpose of a SA process. As Star has said, the criteria for starting the SA process is that a child will 'probably' need a Statement of Educational Need.

If parents or schools make requests for SA because they 'don't know' what their child's needs are it will do 2 things:

1. it will clog up the SEN Departments so that they are less efficient in dealing with those children whose schools/parents have already identified that their needs outstrip that of the school's resources.

2. It will skew statistics, with more children refused assessment. Then parents everywhere will think that LAs are just out to deny assessment.

3. It will dishearten parents who are falsely led to believe that the SA process is for parents to finally 'get answers' to their child's difficulties.

SA is NOT a diagnostic tool. Neither is it a tool for a fast-track EP assessment.

SA is the LAST stage of securing appropriate provision for a child whose needs are beyond the normal resources of their educational establishment. That is not to say that the stages before it are compulsory. There are very clear cases where SA is the first step to be taken, because it is obvious to all that no school will cope with or provide for the child's needs alone.

I would argue that a child who has got to Yr 5 of a mainstream school is NOT a child for whom Statutory Assessment is the first step to be taken.

*"I think in Madprest DD case it would be useful for her to apply for a SA to fully identify her childs difficulties as many LA's EP's duties are now only for SA purposes due to cut backs."

But this is not the purpose of a SA process.*

Oh yes it is one function of the SA process.

Schools and LAs have a statutory duty to
1) identify
2) assess and
3) support SENs.

The SA process aims to identify all the childs difficulties, assess what support is required and state how that support will be delivered.

That's why the SA process takes advice from medical and EP specialists.

If you left it to schools to identify, assess and support you will find that schools themselves do not have that expertise, some SENs may be overlooked or support wil be finance-led rather than needs-led.

What the SA process is not is a diagnostic tool. And it should not be as Statements are issued to support identified difficulties and not any specific diagnosis.

I really don't undertand why some on here are so averse to Madprest appealing against refusal to SA.

Her daughter has chronic LDs.

No one has adequately explained why her aughter has LDs,

School seems to have few strategies to support her (evidenced by the poor IEP).

She will be moving on to secondary school, with abilities that fall short of what is expected for her age group. She will certainly struggle in secondary school where pastoral support is much less than junior school.

I hope you are still on this thread Madprest. I hope that you do appeal the refusal to SA. I'm sure that the LA will overturn their decision prior to Tribunal and cannot imagine that a Tribunal will support the LA's decision to refuse SA.

Your DD's difficultes have gone on too long unsupported and it's time that sction was taken.

Thanks very much for taking time to reply. SENDIST helping me to appeal shall keep you all posted and probs need your help in future no doubt.
I really appreciate it...thanks again. Some have made me alot more positive now.

Meant to add...

Some of think that the parent should be identifying the difficultes and assessing what support is required.

That is simply nonsense.

Most would not know where to start and simply don'y have the skills and competencies to do so.

That's why we have EPs, SENCOs etc.

Just because Statements can be difficult to secure that should not be a reason for not trying.

Similarly, just because school has no evidence of LDs thatdoesn't mean the child doesn't have any.

My own DS had no problems according to school but actually had severe and complex learning difficulties when the LA were finally forced to SA him.

Don't believe what schools / LAs tell you challenge it.

Very pleased to hear that Madprest.

Sorry that you didn't get the level of support here on this board that you deserved.

Best wishes

I know what the purpose of a a SA is Lougle as am on 3rd child in this process, 2 already have statements.

Thanks WetAugust for your agreement.

Good Luck Madprest!!

323 Assessment of educational needs.(1)Where a local education authority are of the opinion that a child for whom they are responsible falls, or probably falls, within subsection (2), they shall serve a notice on the child?s parent informing him?
(a)that they [F1are considering whether] to make an assessment of the child?s educational needs,
(b)of the procedure to be followed in making the assessment,
(c)of the name of the officer of the authority from whom further information may be obtained, and
(d)of the parent?s right to make representations, and submit written evidence, to the authority within such period (which must not be less than 29 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served) as may be specified in the notice.
(2)A child falls within this subsection if?
(a)he has special educational needs, and
(b)it is necessary for the authority to determine the special educational provision which any learning difficulty he may have calls for.
(3)Where?
(a)a local education authority have served a notice under subsection (1) and the period specified in the notice in accordance with subsection (1)(d) has expired, and
(b)the authority remain of the opinion, after taking into account any representations made and any evidence submitted to them in response to the notice, that the child falls, or probably falls, within subsection (2),
they shall make an assessment of his educational needs.(4)Where a local education authority decide to make an assessment under this section, they shall give notice in writing to the child?s parent of that decision and of their reasons for making it.
(5)Schedule 26 has effect in relation to the making of assessments under this section.
(6)Where, at any time after serving a notice under subsection (1), a local education authority decide not to assess the educational needs of the child concerned they shall give notice in writing to the child?s parent of their decision.

Blimey. Surely we can do better than argue with each other about who should and shouldn't get SA. Divide and rule: I really thought we had more sense.

A child is struggling, academic levels aren't great but emotional and social difficulties are very troublesome. The school aren't too worried, and from the IEPs we've seen, not taking very useful actions. The mums instinct is that there is a significant underlying abnormality. She doesn't know what, nor the fastest way to find out and try to help.

So, the points of agreement i guess are:

Make sure school know this is a problem
Fight for useful, specific IEP points
Get an ed psych assessment one way or another

The points of controversy:

How much more does an 'adequate education' involve on top of producing SATS at the low end of normal, while surviving in mainstream?
Can the school (with help) figure out if the child is going to need a statement to make progress, and if they can't, should mum fight for SA now?
In seeing, 'what is causing this', should the NHS or school/LEA decide?

Has the child seen an opthalmic optician to see if there are any diagnosable visual tracking problems?

Has Mum been to the GP to book a hearing test?

Is the child clumsy/a poor sleeper/too anxious/does Mum worry re social issues cropping up at secondary etc - again a trip to the GP to ask for a referral to a developmental pead just to rule out any obvious underlying physical causes.

The suggestions above are to help find out if there are underlying clinical problems holding up the child's progress at school. Despite the arrogance of some schools they aren't medics and can't diagnose.

I'd appeal the SA - and put in a written request for EP involvement.

Sorry but having seen how many kids arrive at secondary school having been "overlooked" at prmary school and have awful problems, I couldn't discourage an experienced Mum of 4 from doing all they can to try and help their child. Sadly it's often only the most disruptive kids that get "picked up" and quieter girls especially often lose out.

Not all schools are equal when it comes to recognising and acting on special needs. Would changing schools be an option if there's one locally with a better rep for sen?

I'm no mathematician, though ds1 is . I think some of our statistics and percentages are wrong. It's a real pain posting figures on a phone so I'm not promising mine will be any better but here goes.

Lougle's numbers suggest only about 5% of assessed kids don't get a statement. I'm sure she's right in suggesting that SA is almost unobtainable without tight evidence of very major needs. And Indigo's stats suggest that about 0.06% of primary kids have a SpLD statement (dyslexia and similar). That's quite a few: eg one child per small town of four primary schools. More common will be statemented kids with lots of problems including dyslexia.

No - 0.06% moans 6 kids in 10,000.

I think its Ok for people to have different opinions marimagdalena. However the LA's have a legal duty to identify needs and then if needed set out those needs and then address how they will support those needs. Those are the facts.

MM - so 1 child out of 1,666 has a statement for SpLD. 1 child out of 55 classes.

And those academic levels wouldn't even put you at the bottom out of 25 children in my kids school.

And the OPs DD is making adequate academic progress.

I think there is a huge problem with the difference in how the system is supposed to work and how it actually works.

A SA may not be the correct pathway to access an EP and may 'clog up the system' but if the is no alternative but years of waiting and being fobbed off then why should a child be made to suffer/receive inadequate help?

The subsequent clogged up system should be complained about by those who work within it to their bosses to ensure the more cost-effective and faster pathways become accessible.

Wot star said cos she said it better'n wot could ; )

How the system shoud work and how it does are two different things. As a Mum I think you have try a multipronged approach until someone, somewhere listens : (

Sometimes you have to use SA to get a dx / speed up the process. We would have wasted 2 years if we had gone through the hoops the LA wanted us to to prove DS would fail in mainstream - even though it was apparent on day 1. For my LA early intervention = having to pay for SS for longer = not something we want to do = delay 'proving' a child has failed as long as possible by creating a web of steps each child / school must go through first. SA is the only way round this kind of tactic.

We currently have a severely restricted service for assessment for ASD, basically you cannot be assessed if you are over 5. So now the only way to find out if your child has ASD is to sue / JR the NHS or apply for SA on the basis a LA is not going to go to tribunal without a dx / EP / any evidence. I feel pretty ok telling parents to use SA to find out if their child has ASD when there is no other way.

Locally about 2/3 parents pay for private help for children with SpLD. Which does not suggest to me that the needs of those children are being met in mainstream without statements. Just because such a small % of children with SpLD get statements, does not mean that it is right that such a small % get statements. I know several parents who 'flexi school' and HE one day a week but in reality send their child to a private SpLD consultancy that day (with the schools knowledge). Those children would be in the no statement % but their needs are clearly not being met in mainstream.

Anecdotally statements here are not given consistently on need anyway and are frequently given to the most determined and articulate parents. Therefore children with minor needs might get a statement and a child with major needs might not. Its often nothing to do with the child and everything to do with the parent. Not the way it should work, but in practice often the way it does. So the stats don't necessarily tell you how severe the children with statements are.

For eg I remember looking round a ASD SS once and being told how hard it was to get children in and usually they were severe ASD and had failed several times elsewhere first. I asked if any HF children ever got in and the person showing me round said yes, but their parents are usually judges or barristers.

Thing is, dyslexia is not like ASD.

In all probability those dyslexic kids you mentions, their needs would not be met with a statement either. A TA is not likely to be able to teach those kids to read.

My DDs at a very similar stage and level as the OPs DD. and there is no way I'd want her to have her own TA. That would make provision worse for her.

Nor do I believe 'specialist dyslexic tuition' will help my DD. It's perfectly legal to take your kid out of school for dyslexia tuition.

I know what will help her. And I'm doing it. And I'm starting to see brilliant results. But it's not something that could have ever been provided by a statement.

So the other argument is that this is the only way she can see an EP. Firstly we don't know if that's true or not, and secondly there's no reason to believe an EP report will be helpful. my DD saw the School EP, and the report told the school and me precisely nothing. She made no recommendations at all, and just recommended the school continue doing everything they were doing.

The OP needs to work with school, not damage her relationship with it. I'm not being unsupportive - I'm giving the OP the benefit of my experience. And as my DD has learning difficulties and is the same age, my experience is highly relevant.

Firstly, I didn't say 4% of children assessed didn't get statements. I said 0.04%. That means out of every 1000 children assessed only 4 get a Note in Lieu. The other 996 get a Statement of Special Educational Need. Whether that Statement is adequate is for another thread, many are not.

I've checked out IndigoBell's figure from the statistics she linked to. To put it in perspective, in every group of 1666 children, there will be 1 child who has a 'main' need of spLD. In my area, a primary school has around 400 children. That means that in every 4 schools, only 1 child will have spLD with a statement which names it as their primary need.

Thanks very much wetaugust,wauup and everyone. Received form this morning for appeal, shall be filled and sent asap. I know this as to be sorted before high school because I know she will not cope. She as had hearing and eye tests as school put it down to one of those. Nothing wrong with eyes/hearing. Been to see paed and yes she is a very anxious child. Been in many times to tell them how unhappy she is. And yes, is she wasn't so quiet school would have done something.My child is left to work in her own little world for too long now. Pastoral care offered early Nov, still waiting and it is not going to remove her problems. Yes Wetaugust I am doing it and will keep you posted and I thank you so much because you seem to say the words that as been in my head for the past 3 years. I have had it listening to the school and I am following my gut instinct (which i should have done far earlier) and I have had a little cry of frustration and onwards and upwards from here.

Very glad you're going to appeal.

There is information on the IPSEA website about appealing that will help you.

If you need help there are many on this board who have won their appeals who can assist.

Best wishes

"Appeal - you've nothing to lose."

Except valuable time and energy which could be spent pursuing the right sort of help for your daughter.

Pack it in Lougle

The OP has already had advice from IPSEA that contrdicts your own.

I find your last post very unhelpful - if not downright spiteful.

That's not the purpose of this board.

Wet Lougle isn't spiteful. She has had very different experiences to many of us here, although I don't for a second suggest that she has had it easy either.

I share your frustration as I have seen true evil at work and have learnt that the fastest path to outcomes is to do everything yourself and that even when you get things wrong, you are STILL doing better than them what are paid to do it and I would agree that in the OP's position I would be taking action of some kind. I don't know her situation well enough to know what kind of action but I wouldn't be standing still or 'waiting and seeing'.

I think exposing that LA's/professionals lie and collude to mislead is a very useful aspect of this board and can help enourmously when parents feel vindicated and personally attacked, or simply confused and distressed.

Wet, it's not at all unhelpful or spiteful! Don't be rude.

It's just a different opinion to yours! Everyone's time and energy is limited.

As well as appealing Madprest is going to have to do an awful lot more to help her daughter. I hope she's got some ideas about what else she should be doing.