Parents with kids with dyspraxia and aspergers in school - what helps and what doesn't?

[Aloha]

Ds is starting school nursery on Monday, and school proper in September. The school is v good with special needs, I have heard, and an initial conversation with the Senco over the phone seemed promising. Also the nursery nurse I was speaking to yesterday morning seemed sympathetic. But obviously I am concerned that ds will be OK, not bullied, given appropriate help with dressing/PE etc and given good social and practical support. What do your children's schools do that really helps, and are there any areas where I will need to push? Thanks!

What dx do you have? You'll struggle to get much without one (especially as your ds is so academically able).

hmm tend to agree with baka. I really think ds could have gone through school without much specific help because he wasn't the most difficult of children behaviourally. Even now he really only gets practical support with handwriting and that is in a private school with 20 kids per class. You may really have to push for it, as we may yet need to but it is still early days for us.

Well, DCD is the only official language used. But I've just read Caged in Chaos (very good btw) written by a 16-year-old, very academically able dyspraxic girl and so much of it sounded like ds - only her physical lack of coordination sounds even worse. The school seem very prepared to swing into action atm.

Depressing news from me I'm afraid - we took ds (year 2 - dyspraxic) out of his school at Christmas. He didn't get ANY extra help at all, and his handwriting was dreadful, and getting worse, and he had started to get bullied. There was good understanding of what dyspraxia is, but no real support. However, I think that some schools are more helpful than others - but ours wasn't.

Oh, but he did get a writing board, and the school had agreed to get him some sort of keyboard so he could type his work rather than writing it. In reception he also had a few sessions with an OT to help him with his writing/fine motor skills.

Home ed polyanna?

no, not yet - we're trying a small (private) school near us that has alot of dyslexic and dyspraxic pupils.

Aloha

We have had a lot of help with preschool and school although we don't have a diagnosis so it's not hopeless, although I know that Ds2 has more difficulties in more areas than your Ds.

We have something called the Preschool Support Service and the woman from that co-ordinated putting help in place at preschool and applying for help at school and / or a place at the special unit. You should have somebody equivalent in your area who should be able to help you get funding for any extras at preschool and advise you about school.

I wonder if it might be useful to make a list of all the areas that you feel your Ds will need help with e.g. PE, lunchtime, handwashing etc and ask the school for specific information as to how they will cope with that. They may be prepared to be helpful but they need to understand up front what help is needed and how they can provide that.

I would go over the top and overestimate his potential difficulties. Even consider if it's worth applying for a statement, though you probably wouldn't get one it would sort of flag him up. It's better to go in with too much that you can later drop than to find he is struggling in a couple of years time.

Aloha - my son started reception in Sept. He doesn't have a diagnosis but has dyspraxic tendencies. The school are doing an OT programme called 'Jump Ahead' with him, which seems to be making a real difference - he can now dress and undress himself, including buttons, though he's still incredibly slow. His cutting with scissors has really improved too. Where do you live? I know Jump Ahead is being piloted in Sussex, where I live, but it may be used in other areas too.

I worry about PE though. It's such a status thing for boys. He came back today saying they'd had to jump off a vaulting horse and he couldn't do it, though everyone else could. He ended up jumping into the LSA's arms.Didn't seem bothered (but I was!!)

Aloha, I will post on this very soon as to what help DD gets but I've just found out this evening that my Dad has cancer and am not thinking very clearly. DD's school has been very good overall and give her help to reach what they consider her potential, not where she is in relation to the rest of the class ie within normal limits.

Oh Kittypickle, how awful, I am so sorry . I hope it isn't as bad as you fear. Thanks for replying at all. Much appreciated.

Sphil - how old is your ds? 5/6? I am also worried about PE. Ds is 4.4 and cannot jump off anything at all, no matter how low. The idea of jumping off a vaulting horse is like expecting him to fly. He is barely able to get off the ground. And scissors are a total non-starter. Do you have info about Jump Ahead? Does your ds have problems with friendships/relating appropriately too?
Saker, Absolutely BRILLIANT idea about the list. Shall do this ASAP as it is nursery open day tomorrow. Can't take ds as he is ill, so will be able to give the person in charge all the relevant paperwork and the list. Great. (thinks,blimey, where do I start?!)
Pollyanna, so sorry it isn't working out for your ds. How old is he? About 7? (sorry don't yet know the school jargon very well). What do you think his main difficulties are? What do you think would have helped him?

Hi all.
Kittypickle, so sorry to hear about your father.
I've been reading this all with interest because DS has dyspraxic tendencies - relatively mild I suspect - but it is making his pre-school tough for him, with their insistence on letter and number work. He was introduced to PE 2 days ago and was utterly unimpressed. DS has really poor fine motor skills - scissors, holding a pencil etc. Struggles to climb anything, jump off anything, balance etc. At his hearing test a few days ago, DS could hear the sounds, but couldn't hear a sound and then co-ordinate banging the stick on the table to show he'd heard it, however hard he tried. The audiologist seemed to enjoy telling me that all other 4.5 yo kids manage that and he'd had to do a field test he does with 2 year old kids on my DS. B***d. (DS was sitting there infornt of him). He's really sensitive to the fact that he isn't keeping up with his peers and it worries me that this will become more marked as he moves into reception and yr 1. His social skils are also affected.
In our area the pre-school (part of his primary school) picked up concerns early and he is about to have the Early Years Inclsuion Support Service get involved - although whether or not that will be useful remains to be seen. Sorry to sound cynical, but his IEP and verbal promises from the pre-school looked promising, but have so far amounted to v. little.

I don't mean to hijack this thread. It just strikes me that problems, expectations and other things need to be brought to peoples attention / made clear / pushed for action to be taken - and checked that people are actually doing what they say. I'm feeling q. let-down at the moment - started another thread on this so won't bore you all rigid

no idea on what you need to do aloha. we are trying to get dd2 before she starts nursery in sept so help will hopefully be in place by then. hoe things go smoothly for you and your ds.

Thanks Misdee, earthtomummy, I'm really interested in your post. Thank you for posting, it's not a hijack IMO and I'd like to know more. How are his social skills affected? Have you had him assessed at all? He's the same age as my ds pretty much (ds is September born) and I want to know what's the worst I can expect as well as good stuff!

Hi Misdee, I have had ds assessed by all sorts and have paperwork, but it's whether promised help appears that concerns me, and how to make sure it does. Am particularly concerned about formal PE as of course, his private nursery didnt' do it. I am worried that it will show up ds's weaknesses to his peer group and thus single him out.

Apologies for posting that on your thread Aloha, I was just completely shocked when Dad rang yesterday evening. It's bowel cancer and sounds as if in the early stages so every reason for optimism.

Right, DD and school. She wasn't diagnosed until she was in reception so it's great you've been through that and know exactly where you are with DS. As she was referred to outside agencies she is currently on School Action plus. She has an IEP which is reviewed every half term, I'm going in tomorrow to meet the new SENCO and sign the new one.

Regarding dressing, DD is very slow with this but it hasn't been a huge issue. She did struggle with doing up her coat so I got a duffle one with toggles as she found them easier to do. The only buttons on her uniform are on the top which she leaves open under her sweat shirt. The classroom assistant has always helped her when she's needed it and I've been told that a lot of children need help with this when they enter reception. Having said that, she had a lot of accidents where she didn't get to the toilet in time which has been an issue right up to the end of Year 1. The teachers have had to remind her to go to the toilet each break time and I sent in spare clothes in her PE bag.

They don't have school dinners so she gets a packed lunch. Her lunchbox has a zip to be easily opened and we try to find the easiest to open drinks bottles. There have been a few issues as she is very messy and got told that by a new dinner lady apparently once and felt she couldn't take yoghurts anymore, so I had to sort that one out. Her teacher made sure she was sitting somewhere easy to clean the floor ie not on the carpet and spoke to the dinner lady. Apparently, even in Year 2 a lot of children still make a mess so is the norm. DD once had a packet of crips for a treat and couldn't open them and was teased by the others on her table for that, so crips when occasionally given have a little slit cut in the top to make them easier to open. She also was upset as she finds it hard to keep her legs still round the table and one of the other children was going on about that. Solved by a shuffle round the table (the teacher is very good and gets them all to move rather than just DD)

PE hasn't been an issue as yet though the idea of a gym horse freaks me out. In fact PE has been pretty good as they do Brain Gym from which DD benefits a lot.

In class she has a writing board and a special pencil. At one point she became demoralised about her writing so the SENCO agreed with the classrooom assistant that DD would write a maximum of 2 sentence then the CA would scribe for her or she would use a tape recorder. I think she might at some point get a keyboard but we all feel that at the moment we would rather she concentrate on her writing, which has now improved loads and apparently the issues is slowing her down not speeding up !

She's had 3 teachers so far and last years wasn't as good as the others. DD had been told off for daydreaming which I heard about from someone else. When I asked her about it, she was really sad and said "I wasn't day dreaming, I had run out of fingers to do my number bonds on" This was during a bad time a year ago. I left it a bit long before I went in and raised concerns from which I learned a lesson. I don't leave anything, if there's an issue I want addressing I don't hesitate to raise it.

Socially is where I'm concerned at the moment. She has gone through periods of stuggling with this and there is one little girl in particular who she was struggling with last term. I have raised concerns about it and am monitoring the situation. The previous SENCO felt there weren't any issues and she had observed her in the playground and she is fine and actually fairly socially mature. I don't agree and neither do my friends who really know her so I shall have no hesitation in going in again if I feel she needs help, which I suspect she will. I have worked quite hard on the friendship issues making sure she regularly has children after school which has paid off until now, though I suspect it's going to be harder as she gets older.

Overall the experience has been pretty positive apart from a glitch in Year 1. What has been great is that I feel they have all had a true measure of DD and realised that what she puts down on paper is not a true reflection of what she's capable of. With the one on one session she gets with the SENCO for her writing she has made really good progress and she is now within what are considered be "normal limits" for her age group I think, but she still gets help despite for which I'm very grateful.

Sorry this is so long, I just thought I'd try to cover the main things we've found in case any of it helps in anyway. I think the idea of a list is a really good one, make it really clear where he needs help and keep a close check that he gets it. I've also found that as they get older there are many more activities that become available to them apart from the usual sporting ones. That has been great for DD as the out of school activities have really increased her confidence, given her the chance to make new friends apart from school which has helped through the difficult times at school. She does drama which I would never have thought of until a friend suggested it. It is a fantastic group, really nuturing and totally appeals to her imaginative side which is really strong. Also piano which she enjoys and I feel has helped her concentration and gives an auditory feedback to pressure which has helped her learn how much pressure to apply to a pencil.

Earthtomummy, I'm sorry you're having a hard time with it all

Aloha, ds is just 7 and in year 2. He hasn't had any problems dressing or with PE (he knows he isn't very good at sport, but isn't too bothered, and hasn't had any problems from the other children). His main problem area is handwriting. It hurts him to write and he can only write one sentence where the other children write a whole page. His handwriting is dreadful - my dd (who is in reception) has more legible writing than him. He also has social issues- he is extremely emotional, so gets upset really easily and very over-excited.This marks him as different to his peers.

We did get an IEP and he was put on Action Plus, but it made no dfference. He got no extra time from a teacher, no OT, no Physio. He really needed just 20 minutes a day handwriting practice to improve this, and despite us pushing for 2 years, didn't get this. We have done what we can at home and also paid for private OT, Physio and Speech Therapy (his speech is now fine). In the past term he was also bullied and was starting to get worried about school. he was also starting to comment on how rubbish (his words) his work was compared to his classmates. After alot of agonising (I generally do not agree at all with private schools) we have decided to send him to a small private school which seems very nurturing (they do yoga!) and has experience with dyspraxic children. Most importantly he only has 9 other children in his class so we hope that by the end of year 2 his writing and confidence will have improved.

Thanks everyone - just going into ds's pre-school. Should have gone in with him at 9.30 for the first open day but he's been up half the night with a vomiting bug so not the best idea! Will work on the list today.
Again, sorry about your father Kittipickle, hope he will be fine in the end.
Will ask about what kind of PE they do this morning.

It's been really interesting to see how dyspraxia affects children differently. Although coming to the realsation that something wasn't quite right for DS was painful, it's been reassuring in some ways to understand that there's a reason. It's only been as our DD has reached almost 3 that we realise just how many things we didn't notice re. DS' development. We were very aware that his lack of communication and interaction with others was very behind and wondered at the time about that. His social skills is the area at home that is the most tricky. This is improving. Ds has 2 good friends and can play with just one of those at a time. He feels very insecure in a trio and is often left out - esp. if the other 2 want toplay a 'concrete' game - DS likes v. imaginative fantasy play - lego and playmobil etc. he finds v, tricky and he's aware that his friends can and he can't do it. When he's insecure he roars a lot - what can I say, he just roars in a really hostile way! This is getting a bit better. With other friends - who he's known 18 mos but only sees once a wk or fortnight, he can be v. tricky - either utterly withdraws and refuses to interact, or become extremely over excitable and out of control in a not entirely pleasant way - slight ly destructive. Up until fairly recently I absolutely dreaded play sessions, parties etc because of his behaviour. He is still unpredictable - can have a few good days then a shocker of a day - or 2. He can't join in a lot of adventure playground style stuff and gets v. frustrated with that, which is when he can be hard to manage. It is only with hindsight that I realise that it was odd that DS wouldn't go into playgroup when younger (toddler and mum gp) for at least 10 mins (I was with him) even after 2 yrs of going there.
He's never realy struggled with dressing himself or toileting, but is very cautious and wary of new clothes - has to touch the fabric etc and remove all the labels. Some clothes he has never worn because of the touch of the fabric. Moving from long to short sleeves and trousers in the summer was a true trauma! Also sniffs eveything - it's like living with a bloodhound - most embarrassing is when he strokes people and sniffs his hand!
At school he can't hold a pencil properly and apply pressure. He struggles with letters and numbers - reverses numbers alo - esp. 6 and 9 and if numbers are in a calendar style presentation he can't make them out easily. He refuses to write or draw pretty much most of the time. His general co-ordination is poor - arms flap when running - he's outrun by his sister who isn't quite 3. Infact that's the owrst thing - she's one of those children who will prob. thrive at school with the structure and activities etc. She is already meeting targets that he hasn't. She can do jigsaws better etc.
DS lives in a fantasy world a lot of the time and school have said he plays alongside his friends, but never really seeks out interaction. They find it hard to focus him on tasks and he did v. badly on one of the assessment tools used for ADD - I think he is superbly avoidant and I don't think ADD is his problem.
Oh god, when you read this post it sounds like DS is really odd. He's not. You prob. wouldn't notice anything if you were to see him. Sometimes we wonder wghat the fuss is about. Other days are truly awful. Like somebody yhere just said, school don't see stuff that people who know him really well do - esp. the social skils stuff. DS is fantastic and affectionate and bright and imaginative and brilliant at LOTS fo stuff. Just not in a way that our school system seems to value. Takes breath. Right, got to go and stick some sealife stickers. Sorry this is so long - Aloha you'll regret asking me! By the way, we are right at the beginning -inclusion Support are getting involved to support him at school and we are waiting for an appt. to see the paed. at the Child Development Team. Aloha, interested that your DS is sim. age. P'haps you could tell me how dyspraxia affects him (and you).

Ds1 doesn't have dyspraxia but has delayed fine-motor skills as part of his ASD.

When he started in Reception he got a lot of support with mark-making. He couldn't hold a pencil at all so they started with basic things like using his fingertips in dry sand etc. His teacher also tried him with different types of pencils and grips to see which were best for him. He's now in Yr1 and is getting OT exercises to help his hands. This includes simple activities like rolling plasticine and making shapes with it.

With dressing I found it helped to find out in advance when they were doing PE. It meant that I could make sure he wore a polo shirt to school (only one or two buttons to deal with then) or even send him with his T-shirt on under his shirt already so that it was one less thing for him to do.

Ds1 has quite floppy arms, mainly because he went for so long without using his hands properly. He takes part in a sensory integration programme which also includes exercises to help strengthen his arms. It's also helped with his general co-ordination in PE.

At lunchtime the children have the option of joining the lunchtime club instead of going out to the playground. Ds1 doesn't use it very often but it seems to help that he has that fall-back option. He enjoys playing outside but sometimes just needs some quiet time to himself.

We haven't had any problems at all with bullying. If anything I find that the other children will keep an extra eye on him to see if he needs help with anything. I was almost in tears at a Parents Evening when his Yr1 teacher told me how a couple of the other boys had made sure that ds1 was settling into his new class okay.

"Oh god, when you read this post it sounds like DS is really odd. He's not. You prob. wouldn't notice anything if you were to see him. Sometimes we wonder wghat the fuss is about. Other days are truly awful"

earthtomummy, you have completely hit the mail on the head. Most people wouldn't realise the problems ds has and that is exactly why we felt state school with classes of 30, would not be good for him. He could so easily blend into the middle and underachieve his potential. It is the subtleties in behaviour, like when you notice that they are becoming ill at ease, and the accumulation of issues that give it away. I think they develop so many coping strategies on their own, from choosing easy to put on clothes and shoes to avoiding group games, that the true extent of their difficulties gets easily disguised.

Aloha, you may yet find that your ds copes better than you think but fully undertsand your anxieties. Many kids of this age will still struggle to fully dress/undress, use a knife and fork so there will be extra time built in where necessary.

He sounds bright and will probably learn as much by watching and copying others' shortcuts as by being actually helped. Practising ahead of time so that the order to put things on and the mechanics of doing so are drilled in, will help too. Our ds used to stress about it but he became able to do it quite quickly (top shirt button for example), then we move on to the next hurdle(tie). Now the fuss and dread is less about having to undress/dress for sports than actually doing the sport (rugby atm )itself !

Hope your ds is feeling better.

My DS is 8 and in Y3 at school. I think Ive always known there was somthing wrong but as he kept hitting milestones (eventually)and he was a very good reader and very articulate, the school said he was ok in reception. He began disliking school in Y1. His teacher said he was a daydream and lazy. She said his handwriting was poor but would mature naturally as it often took a while with left handers.Ds began reversing numbers and letters in reception but so do a lot of kids. In Y1 his teacher said that this was due to being left handed and that if hed concentrate it would stop. I disliked her tremendiously. In Y2 it became really obvious that this bright articulate little boy could talk for England but could not write anything legible. His Y2 teacher got us involved with an Ed.P , the school nurse and a Developmental peadiatrician(DP). The DP said he has dyslexic and dyspraxic tendencies. The O.T bods he refered us to said he has shoulder stability porblems and bilateral integration difficulties (doesnt pass info very efficiently between both halves of brain). IEPs have come and gone, 3 of them to be precise,but haven`t helped much. I have learned 1. it is largely up to us to help our kids, 2. if you want somthing or know it should be happening ASK for it. I have just been granted permission to take him out of school for Wed p.ms (some of you were kind enough to help me getting this on a separate thread).I will do OT with him and teach him to touch type. I hope some of this experience helps answer your question Aloha.

Aloha, very much agree that a list is a great idea - also it will give you something to look back on and review from time to time, and see how ds is developing - really valuable.

Since you mentioned not being sure where to start, I'd ask the school for a copy of the timetable and just work through it - assembly, right, what will he need there? Circle time, issues? PE, issues? playground? etc.

My ds (now year 2, coming up for 7) as you probably know is a brainbox oddbod rather than anything diagnosable, but strategies that work with dyspraxia and Aspergers definitely benefit him too - and the absolute bottom-line one is understanding and patience from the teachers. When he was younger I used to take him in before the start of term to meet his teacher, so that she would realise things like how muddled & telegraphic his speech is yet how complicated the ideas are that he is trying to get across. Once you have a patient, on-your-side teacher, everything else comes so much more easily (almost naturally).

Lots more to say but long enough for this go.

Gosh, great advice on this thread.

Aloha, as you probably know, my DS1 is six, has a diagnosis of high-functioning autism and is in mainstream school.

Before he started in Reception we had a meeting out of school hours with his new teacher and a good look round the classroom to make sure that he knew where to go, which his peg was (and they gave him the peg nearest the door, which helped), where to put his lunch bag, etc etc etc. That was a big help because then when we talked about him starting in Reception, both he and I could visualise where he would be going.

He is not considered dyspraxic - this is one of the reasons why he is classified as high-functioning autistic, rather than Aspergers - but like others on here he does nonetheless struggle with practical issues. He still can't manage zips, but he has a winter coat that he can fasten up with velcro bits so that's okay.

He hates using the loos at school so always has to "go" before leaving home in the mornings - which can take up to 45 minutes so that's a bit of a nightmare and I worry that he'll be in therapy for years - "My mum made me go to the loo!". But because he just wouldn't use the school loos for bowel movements (sorry, tmi) he was soiling his pants and then sitting around in them for the rest of the afternoon. Not the way to fit in, is it. Despite several attempts when he was in Year 1, I was unable to get his classroom teacher or the classroom assistant to do anything to help with this, even to the extent that they wouldn't phone us if it happened - they claimed not to have noticed! Yeah, right!

He is very very nervous of school dinners, for various reasons, so has packed lunches. We have to make sure that he can open everything, so if he has something that has a wrapper, like a cereal bar, that has to be slightly torn at the top so he can open it. He can manage cartons of juice though. And is very good about bringing the tin foil from his sarnies home for recycling .

His class teacher and assistant this year are much better than last and he is enjoying school. He has had an IEP every term since he's been there, and they do very much look out for him within the school I think (they're very familiar with autism and Aspergers).

He's also on the Gifted and Talented thingy programme and he enjoys the extra activities that that brings. Would have thought there is high likelihood that your DS will also be on it.

earthtomummy - I feel exactly the same way about my DS - to most people he must appear perfectly normal and I'm sure they wonder what I make so much fuss about - but then if they see him in meltdown mode...

Dinosaur my ds is like yours HFA/AS and he has had trouble at school since he started.

Hes 9 and atm is at home as his anxiety levels are just too much for him to be in school he frequently soils himself and vomits for ages when he comes home from school so we have at home with us, his school have been IMO crap, refuse to accecpt he is ASD because he is extremely HF and they dont see the side of him that we do, eg meltdowns,obsessions etc.

We should find out tomorrow if he can have home tuition from a tutor as DS head teacher has washed her hands of him and this morning told me to either bring him back to school full time or educate him at home

We are going to apply for him to be statemented ourselves as school say he doesnt need it.