Ignorant kids

[eidsvold]

Yesterday I had one of my days from hell.... I particularly have a nightmare year 9 class. ( long story - silly immature naughty boys who think things like throwing bits of pencil across the room as hard as you can at someone else is amusing!!!) Well this boy pulled a face like he was in pain or had been hurt so I asked if he had a problem or was he all right..... He replied laughingly No I am a spastic - well I was about to let him know how inappropriate that was when this boy piped up - nah he has down's syndrome and another piped up nah up syndrome!!!

Well this set all 6 boys into full blown laughter..... Me - as you can imagine - I was so enraged .. I had to take a breath and then I let them have it - first of all told them to shut up and to get on with what they were supposed to do.... ( had been told about 10 times already) the good kids in the class were stunned to hear me roar like that... as they had been working in silence.... I then turned to the boy who had made the comment about Down's syndrome and very calmly ( whilst still shaking with anger) told him that my daughter had down's syndrome and I was offended by what he had said. I also told the original boy that his comment was also offensive. Then I sat at my desk and had to wait until I had calmed down.

The pity is - the boy who made the comment about Down's syndrome is generally a good kid - somewhat bright but he just wanted to take the joke a step further and be the funny one with the last word so the other silly boys would think he was funny and cool.

He was spoken to by the Deputy Head of Year and came back to apologised but I was still so angry all I could do was thank him for his apology and tell him to leave as I was still so angry.

I am not sure what to do next - I have been discussing my daughter with my year 11 form class as they have met her but we have not discussed the Down's syndrome - I have decided to broach the subject with them by sort of saying what happened in the class and that they may hear things about my daughter and I want them to know the correct information.

What do you think I should do with the year 9's..... you know I am still so angry - part of it is at putting up with ridiculous highly inappropriate and dangerous behaviour lesson after lesson..... ( not the only teacher who has to do so form this class) but the rest is at their ignorance and stupidity. You know we have a number of kids with special needs including Cerebral Palsy ( no down's syndrome) and children in wheel chairs.... so it is not like these kids are not around children with special needs.

Sorry this is so long.....

i would have really let rip!! what subject do u teach? i remember out class was the worst to control, and we were supposidly the top set. year 9 is the cocky year, as it was after we had been assesed to what roups we'd be in, and was the final year b4 we would have to buckle down for the gcse's. do u have a 'report system' at your school? naughty kids were always put on report, i think if they got bad reports in the week they had to do an hour detention. once our whole year was being very trying so every class was put on report.
maybe speak to the head yourself and explain that u would like the kids to have some understanding of DS.

sorry i cant be of much help, but wish u all the best.

misdee - one of them was on report... and I had removed the one who was - in most people's opinion the main instigator - so with them there is a lot of interventio but it just seems not to be working... I am not the impact of my roaring and I know my face was like thunder cause even the nice kids stopeed chatting while they were working and just kept their heads down - poor things...

I have absolutely no teaching experience but I think the key point here is that they acted out of stupidity and ignorance. Could you bring it up in class by saying something like, "You probably noticed I was angry/upset on ?day. That's because...." and give them a short talk on DS. Just the basics of what it means and maybe some photos or leaflets. Next time someone makes a comment like that, you might even find that one of your Year 9's will be doing the shouting to shut them up!

hugs eidsvold. I get upset reading cack in the paper- so to hear it from a child you are teaching must be just awful. I think you handled the situation well- I would have struggled not to leave the room. If he is generally a good kid he may well be feeling awful. Maybe a general talk to the class about children with disabilities? And maybe a quick word for them to imagine what it would have been like for one of the disabled kids in the school had heard them saying that? Maybe you could ask the head of year or someone to do it if you don't feel up to it.

Year 9 is an awkward age I agree- and I can just imagine what a bunch of boys showing off must be like.

Oh eidsvold. This sounds absolutely horrid. Poor, poor you. I think it's really understandable that you exploded- you must have felt absolutely overwhelmed with anger and sadness when you heard such thoughtless, ignorant comments. As jimjams says, I think you did so very well to stay in control.

In terms of your question about the future education of these little brats, especially in terms of disability education, I think there might be a few issues tangled up together. One is simply the almost universal yukkiness of Year 9 pupils and the reasons behind that... I don't know of a teacher who finds this year group easy- it seems to be a time when kids push boundaries all over the place in really difficult, irritating and even unpleasant ways. They aren't always held back by respect/fear of consequences in the same way that most younger kids are and they haven't settled to the serious business of working for exams that count. They are usually also still swarming with hormones, extremely self-absorbed and very anxious to fit in with others- sometimes just for survival, which may explain, though NOT excuse, the "good" kid coming up with such a hurtful comment. I think kids of this age can be very hard to reach in a group situation. In short they are often their own and any teacher's worst nightmare. I'm really not trying to teach my nan to suck eggs here- you must know this from experience better than me, Teach- but I just wanted to remind you that year 9s en masse are pretty much horrid by definition, even if there are nice individuals within that masse.

Given this, I'm afraid that I think one part of teaching them is going to be preparing yourself for possible widespread ignorance and thoughtlessness about disability and working out how you are going to avoid meltdown if you witness further examples of their stupidity. I work for a disability organisation and I care deeply about disability issues so I get utterly furious when I hear people talking in the way that those kids did. I can only imagine how awful it was for you to hear it when you have your beautiful daughter in mind always. I think you might need a plan for what you will say and do to deal with offenders effectively and how you will calm yourself down if you hear such toss again. I imagine that the shock of hearing stuff like this might be very paralysing and you may need the support of your team and the discipline team- don't be afraid to ask them to help you out.

However, on the positive side, I really think that the main part of their education has started- they must be so aware that they have hurt your feelings big time by their comments and that it is absolutely not ok. I bet the boy who mentioned down's syndrome wanted to sink through the floor when you told him about your daughter and he realised how upset you were and that it was his fault for saying something so utterly crass and stupid. I do genuinely believe that even year 9s will realise that what they did was wrong. I think most problems arise because children- and adults for that matter- forget that their jokes and attempts to shock have an impact on real people. Though there is genuine ignorance to overcome too sometimes... the only thing to do there is carry on telling them how it is at a rate you feel comfortable with, I guess. I think you've made a great start at doing that with your year 11s and with your reaction to this horribleness. So basic message is I think you've done a great job in the hardest of circumstances and I just hope you feel better soon. Sorry I've said that in such a long ramble of a post. xxxxx

Oh eidsvoid, I am so sorry. I teach secondary and also have some nightmare classes like you describe. I had a particularly terrible year 9 class last year too. This sounds exactly like what some of these kids would do and say too so huge sympathies coming your way.

Can you ask the year 9 head of year about their policy on addressing pupil's awareness of special needs, etc. Could something be drafted into their pastoral lessons or form time,as some pupils obvioulsy are in need of a refresher? Or an assembly?

I don't really have any other practical advice eidsvoid other than what you already did, following your school's discipline policy. It's so hard as it is without this kind of stress. Well done for keeping so calm by the way - you did great in that.

I hope things sort themselves out and something can be done.

With christmas coming up could you perhaps make them aware thinking of others and charities and fund raising issues. When I was at school we were asked to help a local school for children with special needs with swimming lessons and we then attended their christmas party. I remember as a child with limited awareness of other peoples needs let alone disabilties (i.e I was a selfish teenager) it really opened my eyes. Some teenagers will turn into ignorant adults no matter what you try but imo most don't. You know your daughter is a blessing and enriches your life so don't let this spoil your weekend with her.

you guys are wonderful - I was just soooo angry that i needed to get it off my chest. Have been thinking since yesterday what to do about it. What a shame I won't be there for Down's syndrome awareness week. Perhaps I can organise something for an assembly presentation for the head of year or someone to do.... will keep pondering - thanks for your ideas and support.

Good luck!

I am sorry you had to put up with this. No wonder you were so angry. I also suspect this boy is now very shocked and sorry and I think you may well have just taught them the single most important thing they will learn for a long while - that words hurt, that sneering at other people is wrong and that cruelty of any kind is stupid and shameful.

Aloha, yes you are so right. My dd is going into Nursery this January and I am pleased to hear that her mainstream school works closely with the same school I helped out at when I was a teenager. I hope that knowledge of people who are "different" from such an early age will mean she is a more accepting person as she grows up. Obviously her dad and me have to play our part as well in that

I have no experience of teaching, only of being a bolshie schoolgirl! I wonder, if you could bear it, if you could take a photo of your daughter in to school and either show that whole class or those boys in particular and impress upon them that she is an individual and a child who is very important and loved. Personally I think I would find that too hard after such an upset but I think a photo of her to emphasise that she's a real person as are other DS/SEN kids would help. I always have a photo of my son "carelessly" stuck in my file or papers when I go to meetings with LEA or similar, they always respond to it and I think they remember him as a real person. I think an assembly is an excellent idea as that would give more opportunity for planning, less spontaneous and less likely to be more upsetting. We too spent a little time with disabled children when I was at senior school and we had to adopt a charity to raise money for each year plus we used to visit the local home for disabled ex-servicement as an ongoing "good deed". I really think that all these things helped us to be less prejudiced (not that we were saints by any means!).

I think its such a shame that some children are so ignorant about people with special needs. It's really important for them to realise that we are all different, some more so than others, but they could learn a lot by being compassionate and understanding.

I'm so sorry your class upset you Eidsvold it must have been very hurtful for you. I feel so awkward writing on the special needs thread as I don't really have any experience, but I wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

My friend has a little boy who is quite disabled, both physically and mentally. She rang me one day, very upset, as some of her dd's friends had come round on a visit and when they saw her ds, they start screaming and wouldn't go anywhere near him. She said it was awful and the worse reaction she had ever seen. I felt so bad for her and her ds and dd, I really do think that children can only benefit from mixing with others in different situations than themselves.

eidsvold - I am so very, very sorry you had this awful experience, I know it will stay with you for quuite some time. This must of been absolutely just a sickening feeling to the stomach for you - I think I would of exploded myself. I remember when my DS was about 12 weeks old, and I decided to return to work ( just 1 day per week) I was working in a doctors surgery. It was very, very small with one GP , no nurses and myself the receptionist. I can still remember these two patients coming in - chatting away about their wonderful, healthy pregnancies etc.... Both knew I had just had my DS (Down Syndrome) and made it crystal clear how terrible it would be if their babies were Down Syndrome. I remember I was so upset - didn't know what to do with myself, hid in the back room for two minutes - I couldn't face them at all. After they finished seeing the doctor, I could barely look them in the eyes, I was so angry and hurt by their comments - one actually asked how was getting on with my DS?????

i do have a pic of dd on my laptop and the children have asked whose baby that is... strange they would think I would put anyone's baby but my own as my laptop desktop theme.... I also have her artwork taped to my filing cabinet..... I have a two page spread - of pics and story which was part of the Down's Syndrome Association Annual Review. I was going to tape it up on my filing cabinet - think I will now.

Thanks so much for all your support and ideas.... I am still mulling over what to do with those year 9 boys..... but am definitely going to have a discussion with my form class.... telling them the situation that prompted it as well.... wondering how my student with cp will respond.....

Eidsvold, you have all of my sympathy. Poor you, Year 9 are a horrible lot. I've only got one class of them this year and they are dreadful.

I've had a similar stuation with a Year 11 boy who made a horrible comment about DS in my class. In general this is a nice kid and he was way out of order, the statement was made to 'look cool' Horrible stuff, and I don't have the personal issues that you have, so have a big hug from me for not smaking the little git in the mouth.

When it happened to me I kept the kid in a break time and calmly sipped him to shreds, pointing that this was discriminatory behaviour and that I expected a lot more of him that that sort of behaviour. HE was devistated and appologised profusly.

It isn't an excuse, but kids do seemt to go through this vile patch, before they come out the other side.

BIG HUG

Sorry, hmb- love your post and think it's great you set the boy straight but couldn't help smiling at the "sipped him to shreds" typo! Now there's a great image!

Eidsvold- I think the kids in your school are very lucky to have you for a teacher. You too, hmb. They are learning about life as well as the other subjects you teach.

Sorry! I do teach a little better than I type!!

Edisvold - first time I've logged on since Thursday early evening. So sorry hon', I can imagine how shaken with anger you must have felt. All I can say is I think it is so important to educate these boys / children in a positive way. The kind of way I'd propbably deal with it would be a bit like this.......
Explain how people 'USED' to think of people with DS and other SN as ... (oh can hardly say the word......)... 'retarded'etc but how people have now learnt that they are not retarded but are just 'slowed-down versions of me and you' and there's absolutley nothing 'wrong' with them at all and they have one EXTRA chromosome, not one missing. Maybe we should all have an extra chromosome, maybe it's us that are missing something??!!! Anyway the fact of the matter is kids that this extra chromosome does make stuff a bit more difficult for them and this means that they work a lot harder and their achievments are to be celebrated. The world is a better place for having all sorts of different people in it. Some people have freckes, some people wear glasses, some people are skinny, some people have brown hair, some are blonde and some children have an extra chromosome.
Oh I don't know I've just waffled out a lot of garbage and you'll know exactly what to say to them I'm sure. What are they going to understand about chromosomes - I can just about fet MY head round it. Best of luck in educating them in whatever way you decide. I hope you make a difference.

I have read about schoolchildren doing 'experiments' at school to learn about discrimination by doing things like segregating those with blue eyes, and then those with brown eyes etc so they can get a feel for what it is like to be set aside for something that is part of them and they can't help. I thought that sounded interesting. I do think educating children about difference and disability etc has to be as important as anything else.

So sorry, eidsvold. I also read about a segragation experiment where some children had to wear some kind of coloured arm band and, I don't think, were allowed to say why - sure some of them did. But it did have a positive imapct to some degree as other children started to treat them differently etc because they were "different" - the point being that's how it feels, understand and learn - if you see what I mean?

so sorry to hear this eidsvold, I dont know how you keep your patience with them

Aloha - we watched a video on that experiment when I did my teacher training. It was interesting, but incredibly unethical: the kids were all taking it really seriously and a few members of the un-favoured group (they alternated it) got very upset. Plus as it is clearly arbitrary, it may not have an effect on prejudice that is already ingrained. I think it would have been just as effective as a series of stories, or a class project.

Anyway eidsvold, I do sympathise. I always get very angry when people make crass comments like this and have taken some abuse for it in the past. Well done for telling them so clearly how you felt!

Message withdrawn