school says my ds does not need a statement?

[crazygal]

hello everyone
ive been on quite afew times before and hoping someone can give me some advice?
my ds is 7 and in yr 2.
over the last 2 and a half years of school the school have called us in several times,saying ds id troublesome,challenging,disruptive,excessive talker etc,
(he got diagnosed with mild to moderate ADHD)

we had our parents eve,and in there they say hes doing very well,but,hes gone from above average,to average/below average.
she said he does disrupt the class,and that sometimes they have to call in a 1-1 for him,around 2-4 times aweek,for around an hr -a whole afternoon.
and that sometimes they have to take him out of the class altogether.

we then asked her,does he need his own 1-1?
she said,dont go there,you wont get any,and beside,if he needs 1-1 we can call in someone from another class,plus,hes not that bad!

so what do you think?
is this something we should be going for?
do i beleive her when she says hes not that bad?even tho they love to tell me when hes done wrong!
i know he acts the class clown,and is a different child when we turn up to those school gates.
we also have to choose a middle school before jan,
so he will be moving,
what do we do?
thank you x

Schools are good at telling parents their child does not need a statement, or will not get one. Ultimately if you feel that he is having any difficulty at school that could be affecting his education and this could be better supported then apply for a statement as you have nothing to lose. Take a look at the IPSEA website for information and letter templates etc. Be prepared to fight the local authority on this too though - it would seem many (standardly??!) send out a refusal to assess as their first response and lots of parents do have to go to appeal over this.

agree with all beautiful says, my son is 7 and his old school said he didnt need statementing, wouldnt get him one blah blah.....he got statemented and is now happily settling into a special school.

The guidance says every child should make 2 levels of progress in each key stage. So find out what his Nat Curric level was at start year 1 and see if increasing appropriately eg increase 2 levels by end of year 2. Is he on track to do this? If not then its insufficient progress. TBH it sounds like is going backwards and not making progress at all.
Sometimes schools don't know that what to do to get a statement and sometimes its because they know you can only get a statement if for eg the school have already put in 15-20 hours per week (or whatever the local agreement is) for 6 months. So if I were you I would find out what the school has to do before a statement would be considered by asking the SEN officer at the council for their criteria, or parent partnership.
It may be the school does not want to fund the 15-20 hours so is making out a few hours here and there is fine.
You can ask for an ed psych referral regardless of whether you apply for a statement
What IEPs like are they detailed and measureable? Is he meeting them?
I'd apply and then collect the data especially if you want it in place by next Sept. as you may have to appeal a refusal to assess and could easily take a year.
I'd also ask the school to get an EP to visit and if they refuse request it direct.

thank you for your response..
ok,ohhhhhhh dont know what to do!!!!!arrrrrrr...
ok,he has an iep and there are 3 targets on it,he always reaches at least two of them,the one he failed to meet this time on it was standing in a line up with out pushing or shoving,
we had ed psych in,in jan,and as the teacher put it,unfortunately,we had a good morning!
the ed pshch said he could see he was wilful....and he also said he wanted things done "his way".the ed psych felt a good reward chart would sort it out!
and that he would make him one up and send one to school and one to me.
we never got it!
i made my own and so did the school,based on what the ed psych had said.

i will certainly check if he is making the 2 level progress?
agnesDiPesto,how should i word this to the school?
i need to be armed with all the right words going in there,

teacher wouldnt tell me what the average child was reading,ds is on biff and chip book 5a
he gets 5 spellings a week,she also told me he was the only one who could do number lines...however a parent told me from that class that she was told the same!!

crazygal, do your annual reports state what level he was at last year and the year before?

In Yr 2, the children usually sit for their SATS and are considered on track if they achieve Level 2 in literacy and maths.

Perhaps you can write asking for clarification about going from above average to below average saying that you would like to support your child with school work to ensure he makes up lost ground and ask where he is falling behind.

Agree with LeninGrad about the possible difficulties with transition and applying for assessment yourself.

You're going to have trouble with the '2 levels of progress' line in Y2.

yes, he's expected to be a level 2 by the end of Y2. (Eg reading biff and chip level 8 or 9). So he looks like he might well achieve that.

But if he doesn't achieve that. If he gets a L1 or even below that, it does not mean you qualify for a statement.

crazygal

Would also agree with Leningrad's counsel here.

Use IPSEA's website and ignore any naysayers like this school who will deliberately tell you such crap. They won't have to deal with him in a year's time as he will then be going to Junior school.

You've already been called in, be prepared to be called in when he goes to Juniors as well because without extra support he will go further downhill both in class and outside of it. It is clear that his needs are not being met in school and he's acting as the class clown because that is his way of coping; not good either. With a dx of ADHD he should have a statement, no two ways about it. EP clearly did not know what she was talking about and showed no knowledge or even understanding of ADHD.

You are his best - and only - advocate here because no-one else is better placed than you to fight his corner for him. Also no-one else will.

With a dx of ADHD he should have a statement, no two ways about it. - I don't think this is true.

Surely not every child with ADHD has the same difficulties in class......

Statements are always based on need not dx. If a child has ADHD but can manage in class (whether due to medication or for any other reason) - then they wouldn't qualify for a statement.

It is lovely to think that every child whose parents think he needs a statement can have one, but in reality the money is finite. Decisions have to be made on the basis of need and schools do need to be sure before they apply for statements.
DS got his statement in Year 8, applied for by the school. It went through quickly and easily because at that stage it was obvious that he needed it.

IndigoBell you are right. It is not the diagnosis that is important but the effect of the diagnosis, which is why some children with AS go throough school without a statement.

jandy

Why have the school put the OP off in such a manner?. It is down to money at the end of the day but they do not have to deal with their mistake with the child five, ten years down the line.

Parents can also apply for a statement as well as school.

Am glad to read your son received his statement in Y8.

"If a child has ADHD but can manage in class (whether due to medication or for any other reason) - then they wouldn't qualify for a statement".

Really?. I doubt that very much and apart from anything else why should the child just have to manage in class in the first place?.

Well it seems clear to me that crazygal's child is clearly not managing in class and to cope the child has taken to acting as the class clown. She and her son are being let down here by school.

Well I guess this is the relevant paragraph of the SEN COP:

7.43 - evidence of significant emotional or behavioural difficulties, as indicated by clear recorded examples of withdrawn or disruptive behaviour; a marked and persistent inability to concentrate; signs that the child experiences considerable frustration or distress in relation to their learning difficulties; difficulties in establishing and maintaining balanced relationships with their fellow pupils or with adults; and any other evidence of a significant delay in the development of life and social skills.

Acting the class clown would not meet that criteria. That's not what they mean by disruptive behaviour. Nor would low level disruptive behaviour (talking, messing around etc) count.

All kids have to manage in class. NT of SEN. School isn't perfect for any child.

The OPs DC would only meet the criteria for a statement if he meets 7.43 and - have not responded to relevant and purposeful measures taken by the school or setting and external specialists

While he's doing fine academically, and not hurting himself or anyone else, I assume the LEA will argue that he is responding to the relevant and purposeful measures taken by the school.

Hi indigo,

Re OP's initial post in which this was quoted:-

"...he has gone from above average,to average/below average.
she said he does disrupt the class,and that sometimes they have to call in a 1-1 for him,around 2-4 times aweek,for around an hr -a whole afternoon.
and that sometimes they have to take him out of the class altogether".

That would fit 7.43 surely?.

Acting as the class clown is a coping strategy to try and garner the other childrens' favours.

Why is the school saying such things to this child's mother?.

hi everyone,
can i first say thank you for your replies..
i didnt get to speak to anyone today at the school as ds was off ill,
as for school,
we had a adhd nurse in the school observing him for half ann hr,to which the teacher once again told me,he had a great morning,
i have just recived the observation report.
let me give you some info on it....

ds gets a job to give out friut and does so carefully
hes asked to sit back down and does.
he has to sit on carpet and puts hand up at the right times.
ds gets whiteboard,starts drawing,hes reminded not to.
he swings whitebord about,teacher says no,stop.
he then shouts,but ive done.
he continues to swing board and doodle.
he is not joining in in group.
he jiggles on carpet with whiteboard between his feet,he shuffles backward and forward,
hes asked to move back to his place,
he does so straight away
he then rolls pen up in a cloth,teacher asks him to stop.
he writes a sum as requested.
he fiddles with pen
teacher helps another child with a pen,ds shouts i want a different pen
ds is encouraged to work independently
he does 3 out of 4 sums then lies on the carpet,
praise given for doing sums
everyone told to wipe off whiteboard,ds does with his bum
teacher says no.
told to get back to work,he doodles on the board
teacher speaks quietly to him
he does his work,praise is given
free time......
ds joins a boy that rolls a dice,teacher joins in, ds explains what he wants to do with dice
teacher says ok,he spins the dice,but starts disagreeing with the other boy and will not negotiate
ds shouts at a girl across the room,"get my chair back"
a boy gets him his chair
boy picks up dice
ds shouts "give back the dice" boy does.
game continues
girl comes to watch game,ds shouts "go away"
he excitable,loud,and meant to be writing numbers of dice down
teacher reminds him.
more children join in.
teacher claps hands for attention,
ds does not listen
children told to tidy up,ds does not
hes told to sit on carpet,he does
praise given......

and thats a half hr report,
my ds does get aggressive to other children,
he tells me he hits others when hes angry!
and its always there fault!!!
teacher told me he hit two boys in the face last week because they wouldnt play a game his way,
when i spoke to him,he said well they should have played the way i said.....
we have now set up a reward chart for this,if we could just get him to talk and say hes angry then that would be half the battle!

i took video footage of him losing his cold last nite,3 times in 6mins he hit me,then he calmed down,and was fine.
i need to gather as much as possible together so these professionals can see.
i dont know......
i wish some one could just take him away and replace the lovely baby i once had,sorry! i shouldnt say that
i dont know what to do??!!!
even if he is not entitled to a statement i just know and feel he needs some help,
because i know middle school is going be cruel to him,the boys there wont put up with him,i worry for him....
the teacher he had last year said it to,he said middle school will get him if he continues to behave the way he does,
ive had parents complain too that he is bullying there children
im stressed to my eyeballs!!

Hi crazygal

You won't know for certain re the statement until you write that letter yourself to the LEA (use the template letters on IPSEAs website). Do not assume he's not entitled to such a document.

Your fears I think are justified re middle school. FWIW the two children I directly know of with ADHD both have statements.

INDIOBEL could you please explain what 7.43 is? thank you,
and JANDY,that great your ds got a statement at yr 8,do you mind me asking what are his "problems" and why yr8?what i mean by that is,did his "problems" only arise then or did you have a job/fight to get a statement?

He has Aspergers but it was only diagnosed in Yr 7. The school has an excellent record for dealing with AS students and first of all tried all the strategies they would normally use, so he was having support.As he approached puberty things deteriorated and that is when his statement went through.
He did have problems at Junior School, but they worsened as he went to Secondary.

Crazy '7.43' is section 7.43 of the SEN COP (SEN Code Of Practice), which is essentially the law about school action, school action+, and statements.

Download it and read it. :)

Sorry not come back before. So you need to look at the national curriculum levels. It is irrelevant what other children get or in average range. Its whats appropriate for his ability level so if he was above average and now isn't then it does not sound like he will make the 2 levels progress as it would be 2 levels from his starting point, not 2 levels from what is considered average.
You could ask for his social skills / behaviour to be scored eg i think one of the P scales deals with social.
He may or may not need a statement - that depends on the level of support school has been funded for already through delegated funding arrangements. Locally every school here has to put in 20 hours per week 1:1 without a statement and only gets extra funding for children above 20 hours. So if they are not spending the SEN funding on 1:1 for your child, what are they spending it on?
The behaviour you describe is not typical for a 7 year old and if not addressed now will become entrenched. Are they using the reward system correctly or giving loads of attention when not behaving and not catching the good behaviour?
Don't be made to feel bad about school budgets. Its not our fault that SEN funding is not sufficient. Thats not your problem.
You should apply for a statement as even if you do not get one, by going through the process the school will be put under scrutiny and if they have not for eg put in enough 1:1, used outreach teams for advice etc etc then they will have to explain why.

hi
he has one reward chart up beside him in the class,and that went up last week and seems to be working ok...
i done my own reward chart and gave it to the teacher this morn to put up,
she seemed keen on it,
i gave ds a task this morn,and that was to ffer to let some one go in front of him in a line,
he told me he done his task,that he told everyone he was going to go to the back of the line so everyone can go in front so i could be nice!
he said the teacher didnt say anything/didnt see.
so feel alittle pissed off about that as i told her what his task was for the day,
so agnesDiPesto,your saying he should get 1-1 even without a statement?

indigobell- thank you so much for that info on that web site,its fantastic.xx

I would suggest videoing him as much as possiable to provide a counter point as to what others are saying. Plus there is the truth in glorious colour.