Could difficult 10 yr old DS have Aspergers?

[lunaticow]

He is slightly odd and always has been. He has always embarrassed me at social gatherings as he doesn't quite know how to behave. Nothing major just interrupting adult conversations constantly with something "important" or attention seeking behaviour like making jokes when it is not really the right time. When he was younger he was constantly pushing other kids over and hitting them. Partly, I think he has spatial issues. He cannot walk in a straight line and trips others up by stepping in front of them. His room is an absolute tip. He goes through phases of misbehaving at school but cannot understand what he has done wrong. He is constantly challenging at home by annoying his brothers and me; seemingly deliberately. He gets obsessed with things and expects others to be involved with his obsession and gets angry if people don't do what he wants them to.

He will only eat really plain food from a very limited range.

He is severely dyslexic but otherwise quite bright.

He over-reacts to challenging situations and hates change. For example, he went crazy when I got an au pair. He is also obsessed about not being late for school and leaves the house extra early. He would totally freak out if he was late. He has tantrums..

Apart from this he is quite a nice boy! He has a good set of friends and is sociable. He enjoys Scouts and football (although goal keeping is one of his obsessions and he will not play out field).

In summary, he is just difficult, slightly eccentric and very highly strung.

I don't know if I should just continue with normal disipline or if I should read up on Aspergers and try and help him in "alternative" ways. I don't want a diagnosis as he functions just about OK socially and educationally.

Any advice please? Thanks.

I suppose I want to know when does strange become Aspergers? Where is the line?

He sounds very like DS1 (with regards to tantrums and other problems you mentiones), I keep changing my mind about him, dysparaxia? ADHD?, mild AS? I am pretty sure we would struggle to get a DX as he can hold himself together at school, has lots of friends, takes part successfully in several activities out of school etc.

DS2, is different, much easier in many ways, gentler, less grumpy, BUT he really struggles to establish and maintain friendships, has slightly wonky speech and is off in his own little world a lot. The professionals reckon he has mild AS but we have not pursued a DX yet (ambivalent about it but that is another story).

To make you feel better DS1 is 13 now, is enjoying high school much more than primary, does not tantrum anymore and is getting less angry. He does still torment his brothers when bored and is currently going on and on about his desire for a new phone. Still a bit dense around empathy/compromise etc. but slowly improving.

It can be very difficult to tell where the line is but read up on it anyway, knowlegde is power.

Wigglybreezer - My DS can hold himself together at school too but he will come home and tell me how angry he got in various situations.

I know what you mean about changing your mind - is it dyspraxia etc.? I often go through that too. The main problem is his anger - sometimes I am frightened of him, although he has never really harmed me and is very sorry when it has all died down. Your mention of "going on and on" about about a new phone sounds familiar. When DS has something in his head he goes on about it relentlessly and I end up shouting at him because he will just not shut up about it no matter how often I ask him to.

He is also a nightmare on holiday. He is so bad that I'd rather not take him with us. I wonder if it has something to do with the change of routine.

I don't particularly want a label for him, I just want to know how to deal with his difficult behaviour.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hi lunaticcow,

re your comment:-

"I don't want a diagnosis as he functions just about OK socially and educationally".

You don't want a diagnosis - why is this really?. That seems a tad selfish. Who does taking that stance really help; well no-one actually. No-one benefits from a lack of diagnosis and denial is a powerful force. You may well be afraid and I can fully understand that what is really worse for both of you?. Your son needs to fully understand why he is the way he is; he won't thank you ultimately for not knowing why.

Re your above comment as well, this may not always be the case however and the gap both socially and educationally between his peers and him could widen as he becomes older. Secondary school for children with additional needs if unsupported can be a living nightmare for them.

Your day to day lives seem very hard and a diagnosis may well help you both understand why he is the way he is and opens doors that otherwise remain shut.

I would read up on AS and speak to the National Autistic Society. In the meantime too you could ask your GP to refer DS to a developmental paediatrician.

Please do not be afraid to seek a diagnosis; not knowing to me would be far worse than knowing and understanding more.

Atilla - Thanks for your advice. However, my hesitancy for a diagnosis is not selfish on my behalf. I would love a diagnosis for my sake as that way I could say "its not my fault he is Aspergers" and it could help me get more help and advice with him. Living with him is difficult and I am a single mum with 3 kids with very little family support.

The only reason I am not keen on a diagnosis is that I don't want him to be labelled as I fear that this would go against him in future relationships. Who wants a boyfriend that has been diagnosed with ASD? I think a diagnosis might benefit me more than him. Perhaps I am wrong and I can see from what you say that a diagnosis might also benefit him.

I'm open to suggestions.

Also, when he was 5 I took him to an Educational Pyschologist - referred by our GP as I though he may be hyperactive - ADHD. He was perfectly charming with the EP and she basically told me that his behaviour was not ADHD and was, in a nutshell, down to my lack of discipline. She told me to read a parenting book. It didn't help.

Hi Lunatic

re your comment:-

"The only reason I am not keen on a diagnosis is that I don't want him to be labelled as I fear that this would go against him in future relationships. Who wants a boyfriend that has been diagnosed with ASD? I think a diagnosis might benefit me more than him. Perhaps I am wrong and I can see from what you say that a diagnosis might also benefit him".

A label should only be seen as a way to getting more help and no more than that. Its not a stigma. No dx means no support to my mind; doors remain shut. A dx should help both of you.

There are plenty of people out there on the spectrum who are in relationships; if girls won't accept him for who he is then that says far more about them than it ever does your son. You certainly cannot assume that no-one would want him because of being on the spectrum. Its not your sole decision to make either; your son may well one day want to understand exactly why he acts the way he does. You should not block that knowledge due to your own understandable fears.

Selfish is a bit harsh and I am sorry to use that word but not knowing why things are as they are far worse to my mind than knowing. His behaviour impacts on your family life to its detriment and you all need more help and support. Whatever the root causes (and dyspraxia can be co-morbid with other conditions) it has nothing whatsoever to do with parenting so no-one should ever bring your parenting into question (perhaps this is another fear that you have).

EP cannot make any medical diagnosis and this person was wrong to state what she did; it was not in her remit. EPs can only make recommendations re educational needs. You were both let down back then and GP as well referred you to the wrong person.

You need to seek out a developmental paed if you want a diagnosis; these people can make a proper diagnosis. BTW if your GP is useless change the GP.

I would advise you to seek more help.
DS was a bit like your son at 10, but as he got older the difference between him and his peers widened. He was diagnosed with Aspergers at 12 by a Community Paediatrician and an Educational Psychologist working together. The EP cannot diagnose alone but their input is very valuable in the process.
The diagnosis has only been helpful so far. DS got a Statement at 13 and brilliant help at school.
As he gets older it will be up to him who he reveals his diagnosis to.

I just wanted to add, that you or your ds will decide who to tell about a diagnosis[dx] anyway.

My Dd3 hides her ASD very well at school but explodes at the end of the day,[not her only issue though] she is 9 and has only recently been Dx'ed. I see the diagnosis as a way to allow her to be who she is and if there are things that she needs help with then the Dx opens doors to support for her.

I would recommend keeping a diary of all your Ds's quirks or challenging behaviours and how you dealt with them,, then if somewhere in the future you do decide to seek help for him you will have some written evidence to back your self up.

Good luck and welcome to the board.

Exploding at the end of the day That is DS too.
Thanks for all your comments. It is a difficult one for me. All advice is gratefully received even if it is difficult to hear.

It is especially useful to hear other people's experiences.

We have come to understand that one of the reasons Dd3 explodes at the end of the day is her inability to ask for help.

She struggles through the day getting upset about not understanding something or not doing something perfectly [she is a perfectionist] but is totally unable to tell any one how she feels.

Things have improved massively since she moved to a really lovely inclusive school and she has been put in to their nurture group now too so we are hoping for some more improvements.

I struggled with the decision to go for a DX for a long time even during the assessment process I considered stopping. But now Dd3 is getting more support and so am I. I am not a single parent but do most of the parenting.

I am going to my first support group this week and have great support from the SENCO at her school.

Remember no-one will know about his 'label' if you don't tell them. However everyone will see what he's like with or without a label.

Normally a 'label' helps - if it's the right one.

I certainly don't regret my son's label for a second, and by now he has very few difficulties.

All this second guessing yourself and doubting yourself doesn't help anyone.

To me it def sounds like he could have Aspergers, and I think you should ask the GP for a referral to a child development paed.

I think you should definitely go for a dx. My ds is 11 -was dx last year with AS and his problems are definitely becoming more apparant as he gets older. He is ,like your lad, sociable etc,but I am now glad we went and got a dx (had exactly same reservations as you).We have only told people on a need to know basis-but it has helped enormously with understanding why he does the things he does etc.He sounds very much like he has As to me-I would seek a dx as you dont know what problems lie ahead with secondary school etc .I'm dreading that one!

if it is it will show itself more as he gets older, also the girlfriend things seems a little irrational, if he gets support now he will be more likely to find and keep a relationship, if he is fact does have an A.S.D knowing why you are different is better than than always feeling out of step and not knowing why. and it does sound like aspergers from what you put. if you read tony attwoods book on aspergers syndrome you might see it for yourself like I did, before that book I was in denial.

Thanks Jennylee. I have just ordered that book.

He also has a fear of lifts and escalators and acts like a complete idiot if we have to go on one. I sometimes wonder if his fear is genuine or attention seeking. However, I remember when he was about 6 and we were in a museum. We had to go down quite a grand staircase and he just screamed and screamed at the top with fear. Everyone looked at us and I had to carry him down with his 1 year old brother in the other arm. He was also terrified of open tread stairs and still is very hesitant on them.

I just want him to be normal and I keep hoping that he will grow out of his odd ways.

He does function OK, he is just a bit different and challenging. I think I will get him assessed. It is just that I have been met with such resistance in the past. His dyslexia assessment had to be paid for by me but my fears about him were proved correct that time in spite of his school being in complete denial. The child psychologist was a bad experience for me too. I suppose I don't want people to think that I am a neurotic parent. I do want what is best for him and the family though.

We'd all like our children to be 'normal' (not keen on that turn of phrase to be honest) but having a label doesn't make a child less 'normal' not does denying them make them more so! If there IS a difficulty then the best chance of improving their abilities and functioning lies in recognising and acknowledging the difficulty and getting appropriate assistance...and more often than not, it is impossible without official recognition (a diagnosis).

Take a look at "Freaks, Geeks and Asperger's Syndrome' written by a very intelligent young lad with Asperger's ... the relief he felt at having a NAME for being different.. very poignant.

If you son has AS (and it does sound as though he might) he won't be wearing a placard saying 'I'm different!' ..you tell those who need to know.. besides you may be surprised at he numer of people who say 'oh I'd kinda guessed that.....'

I have two on the spectrum, one more obviously affected (he has learning difficulties too) but the elder is now at Uni.. doing medicine... has had several relationships... and it hasn't spoiled her chances of anything:)

lunaticow

you could have a look at my new Autism ASD Links List, which includes a link to Diagnostic Criteria for 299.80: Asperger's Disorder

I think I can understand Luna's fear of a dx. Schools can treat labels as final and use it to define the potential of a child.

My son in Draw a Person test scored on the first percentile and that pretty much damned him. 1st percentile on this test signals borderline IQ. School said he will never be able to do his GCSE.

I did not and do not agree with what school expected of him.

Stumbled onto INPP. Began the program. Less than 4 months into the INPP prog, in Draw a Person test he jumped 2 levels, doubled his raw score and is almost at average IQ.

So Luna even if and when you do get a Dx don't get limited by it.

From your description, your ds doesn't sound like autism spectrum, just highly strung. Signs of AS in teenagers include - unusual eye contact, often taking things very literally.

Also, do you need a dx to change your parenting? Surely you can respond to your sons needs and support him regardless of dx?

Parietal - it sounds exactly like Aspergers. Everyone on the spectrum is different and you don't need to have all the classic signs to have Aspergers.

And knowing has def changed my parenting.

Sounds like mine too.
I'm with Atilla and others. A diagnosis helps open doors, ultimately it will help your dc deal with fears, expand his academic abilities and importantly his social skills. It really is worth it. As for relationships, Lordy me, they're queueing at the door to go out with Ds2! Seriously, he's never had a problem with girlfriends, just maintaining things, and he's always very open about his AS.
Oh, and I married Dh, knowing he was a bit different, he was diagnosed ten years after that, we've been together twenty years.

the acting like an idiot about the lifts and steps also sounds like an a.s.d nothing you have put does not sound like an a.s.d. do you ever say look at me when im talking to you or look at her she is talking to you? does he sometimes ignore people or interupt constantly and think he is at the same level as teachers older member of the fmaily and speak to them like he talks to you like there is no hidden rank and some things you cannot say to teachers, grandad, shop workers, complete strangers. do other children of hsi age take the piss tease after only knowing him for a short time? when younger did he get in trouble in the playground, problems with waiting in line, being jostleda nd nto knowing how to take being teased. was he a difficult baby, high maintenance. These are things I ahve found but it goes on and on the things I have realised since dx

Jennylee. Yes, I always tell him to look at me when I am talking to him. It drives me crazy that he doesn't look at me when I am trying to tell him something important. Also, he doesn't look at me when he is talking and I get frustrated because I can't hear him because he is talking towards the floor or the other side of the room etc. He does understand rank up to a point but he might start mithering an adult about something when he shouldn't. Yes, he often got into trouble in the playground when he was younger. He seems to wait in lines ok but will constantly ask me "how long will it take?". For example, he has trouble waiting at the doctors. He was a very high maintenance baby and never seemed to sleep. He still has problems sleeping and will often wonder around at night constantly coming in to my room telling me he can't sleep. He gets on with his friends OK but he doesn't like forming new friendships and is very worried about going to high school in September. He doesn't get teased but I don't think many people would dare tease him as he would get rather nasty.

He also has problems with the dentist and worries about possible medical procedures. I don't know what would happen if he ever had to have a filling!

I really appreciate your advice everyone. I must do some work now and earn some money!