Anyone tried bentonite clay baths for AS?

[popgoestheweezel]

After a mums net recommendation I tried ds (5.5, on the path to a pathological demand avaiodance diagnosis) on DMG behaviour balance and the results have been really impressive. On the same website www.detoxpeople.eu/index.php?l=product_detail&p=10 they have bentonite clay for bathing in as well as kids chelat which look interesting. Has anyone got any experience of using these?

I dunno - but I've bought some to try :)

Not a shred of research or scientific evidence that it works, alas. It's clay. For a while the supporters were trying to claim that the black specks in the bath afterwards were proof of metals being drawn out of the skin of the child by some process that none of them could explain. Then someone tried just leaving the bath of clay and not putting the child in it at all...and noticed it naturally forms black specks. The manufacturers put a warning notice on the product to say they are not liable for any claims that it does any good whatsoever. From the internet today:

"Recently, the FDA has warned eight companies to stop marketing unapproved chelation products and to stop making unproven claims about what their products can do. Check out the list of the companies:
World Health Products, LLC: Detoxamin Oral, Detoxamin Suppositories, and the Metal Detector test kit
Hormonal Health, LLC and World Health Products, LLC: Kelatox Suppositories, and the METALDETECTOR Instant Toxic Metals Test
Evenbetternow, LLC: Kids Chelat Heavy Metal Chelator, Bio-Chelat Heavy Metal Chelator, Behavior Balance DMG Liquid, AlkaLife Alkaline Drops, NutriBiotic Grapefruit Seed Extract, Natur-Leaf, Kids Clear Detoxifying Clay Baths, EBN Detoxifying Bentonite Clay, and the Heavy Metal Screen Test....there are serious safety issues associated with chelation products, which can alter the levels of certain substances in the blood. Even when used under medical supervision, these products can cause serious harm, including dehydration, kidney failure, and death"

Also, the bentonite costs around £100/tonne, which is 10p for a kg of the stuff.

They are therefore charging £23.89 just to put it in a 1 kg bag and send it to people. That's 239 times the raw cost. I can see why they want to sell it. I'm in the wrong business...!

(typically it's used as a pond liner for people who keep fish)

Amberlight you make a really good point there. If you have the link I'd love to see the article.
I totally understand that these things are unproven and there are lots and lots of websites making claims which is totally unethical and they deserve censure.
Obviously the profit margins are obscene, but we live in a capitalist society, products are the price that (enough) people are prepared to pay.
I accept both of those points entirely. BUT, that doesn't automatically mean that the products aren't beneficial to some people some of the time.
I had no great expectations of the behaviour balance DMG but after the recommendation I thought it was worth a try and we are totally amazed at the difference it has made to him. I would say he is 75% improved in compliance rates and in anxiety levels. I cannot believe something so simple made such a difference. It has transformed our family life completely.
There are few (if any) conventional medications or alternative treatments that come without any side effects. I know on occasion I have been prescribed a medicine for a minor condition and been shocked when I've read the list of potential side effects- sometimes listing death!
On the one hand I agree that the supplements/alternative 'medicine' industry needs tighter regulation (and it certainly does as regards spurious claims) but on the other our society happily sells awful quality food marketed at children containing hydrogenated fats and other nasties that we know are detrimental to health with no regulation whatsoever.
It's difficult to reconcile, as a hypothetical example, restricting the sale of omega 3 supplements (there is loads of evidence of the benefits of this) while letting mcdonalds and the like peddle crap to kids. Particularly as McDonalds could be accused of making implicit spurious 'claims' by sponsoring sports events etc.

My POV is

• it's very unlikely to hurt.
• it's money I have to spare
• it might help
• kids won't mind doing it.

So I think - why not?

There is no way I'll ever be able to prove either if it helped or not, if it detoxed him or not.

I do think all of us are full of toxins.

People all over the world have mud baths, and mud face packs and all sorts of things. And pay a lot of money for it.

So I'm happy to try it.

Indigo, you are quite right, humans have been using mud as a beauty product for hundreds of years, and yes, the beauty industry is horrifically overpriced too
I'm getting more and more convinced about the toxins too. I have suffered from chronic psoriasis for 30 years and i'm trying a lot of lifestyle changes in order to detox- i am definitely seeing an improvement. Although my lifestyle was pretty healthy before there's always room for improvement- just off now to make another celery and carrot juice if only ds would drink it

Chelation therapy has resulted in a number of deaths. I would not be prepared to risk it.
Bentonite Clay has no scientific evidence whatsoever.

So if I put DS in a clay bath he won't have AS anymore?
Am I missing something?

It's not a cure for ASD. Don't be patronising.

It may, or may not, help detox someone.

Detoxing someone may, or may not, help alleviate some of the symptoms of ASD.

It's fine if you don't want to try it.

I don't really need to, seeing as DS really has almost no ASD symptoms anymore, due to all the other 'unproven', 'unscientific' treatments and therapies he has done over the last 2 years.

But I still think it's worth giving it a go. Why not?

I have three kids with Asperger Syndrome. Husband too. I wouldn't want to change them one little bit. I use common sense and coping strategies.
I have seen lots of people use these other cures, only for all those 'cured' symptoms to reappear later, along with various and not very pleasant co-morbids.

If a treatment/ therapy is not going to harm your child then you have the right to try whatever you like.

But chelation is very dangerous. And illegal. A friend chelated her son 2 years ago and the consequences have been devastating. Not only did he regress and lose almost all language (which hasn't come back) but he developed severe epilepsy. His first seizure happened the day after the chelation and he has been in the ICU countless times since.

She will never forgive herself.

The human body is already capable of getting rid of toxins - that's what the liver, lungs, kidneys and skin do.

I personally find the medical model of disability patronising and offensive. The suggestion that disability can be cured, or symptoms controlled, by 'detoxing' is spurious at best.
However, each to their own I suppose...
I've no intention to fall out over it or rob someone of their belief of a cure of their particular symptoms. This one just got to me.

I'm not hoping that any 'remedy' would CHANGE my ds, he is absolutely bloody brilliant in my opinion.
BUT if it can make him less anxious, less tearful, less negative about himself, allow him to enjoy social experiences (which he craves), access the curriculum at school and generally make him happier (as behav balance has indisputably done) it means that everyone else in the world can see how brilliant he is and most importantly HE can see how brilliant he is too.

I dont think there is anyone here that has said this is a 'cure'

Omega 3 alleiviates some problems for my DS in concentration, I have noticed a difference, not huge but I would say 25% more than before so its a start.

You jump in a bath of Radox and it relaxes you yes. Epsom salts are great (thanks to me reading a post from Indigo) But too much is not good for you, too much of anything is not good for you. It has to be a required amount. I only use a tiny amount in DS bath and it chills him out for the evening to sleep and I only use it when he has the most awful of days.

I get stressed, have a nice bath, stress goes. I am not cured of getting stressed am I but the bath has helped calm me down.

I wouldnt touch anything that had the word "even death" on it I have to say and I would thoroughly investigate any remedy as is the OP here. But I can see her wanting to cure her child.

I have actually used the egyptian salts I found in boots (expensive) on myself and DS and they have helped too.

Anything that helps anxiety and does no harm is brilliant.

Plenty of things claim to, but have no actual effect and just cost vulnerable and exhausted parents their hard-earned money.

Some, only a few but some, things are positively dangerous.

There are literally hundreds of supposed cures/solutions out there, much like the old Snake Oil claims in the Wild West. Each has people who claim that it made a massive difference to their child. Did it, though? Arguably a nice warm bath is very relaxing anyway, as coff33pot says. Whether it's moral to charge parents £23.99 for a 10p product is debatable, but it's clever pricing. By the time parents find out it's no different to putting a handful of garden soil in the bath, they can't be arsed to complain and get "only" £23.99 back.

The bigger picture is this: why are the children anxious and difficult to manage? The answer is usually that parents are not taught to make our environment liveable. We're in pain from it. Literal pain. That's why we're anxious - because we know there are so many painful expriences that mum and dad and schools want us to 'enjoy' every day. That pain can normally be stopped without spending a single penny on anything. The knack is to look for the sensory problems and the routine-flagging problems and the vague instructions that can confuse, panic or cause us great pain from overloaded brain wiring. I can get through a whole week without panic or pain if people let me live how I need to live. Doesn't always work for every child but it's a good start.

Epsom salts are great- I use them for myself, ds and dd and we all sleep so well after them (which is lovely as ds has frequent nightmares) but of course, you do have to be careful of the quantities you are using especially with children.
There is the potential for almost anything (even water) to do you harm and cause death if consumed in sufficient quantities.
As you say, amberlight, it is not at all moral to charge 23.99 for a 10p product but it is capitalism and, so far, it's the best economic model anyone has come up with so i think we're stuck with it.
I know that controlling ds' environment makes a huge difference to him and of course that's completely free. My problem is on occasions like the party ds went to yesterday when I can't control the environment. Normally I don't encourage him to go to parties as I know he finds them challenging but this was one of his best friends and he really wanted to go. Before PDA, I could never work out exactly what he didn't like about parties- OK they are noisy and that is one element (but again out of my control) but then I worked out that parties are actually just a series of demands. Every party game demands you to perform in a particular way and ds just can't.
Yesterday he sat on my lap watching all his friends join in with the games, I could feel him desperately wanting to go and join the fun but the fear of the demands stopped him.
When the magic show part started I said to him 'No ones going to ask you to do anything now, you can go and sit with your friends' On hearing those magic words he immediately leaped off my lap and sat down with them (sitting right up close behind the tallest child so the magician couldn't see him).
At school there are loads of ways things could be changed to suit him but they wouldn't suit the other children. For example, he copes best when there is no warning of what is going to happen next, better to let events just unfold. However, the rest of his class are all better if they know what's happening next, so what can the teacher do?
I wish I could change all environments to suit him but I just can't.

Popgoestheweezel.....I should have re read my post yesterday. The last line should have read CANT see you wanting to cure your child. I do apologise

I absolutely agree the enviroment plays a huge part in how our dcs behave. I myself am at my happiest on my own doing one thing at a time in order. 3 phone calls an my husband coming in with just one question throws me completely off sync so that I am unable to do any of the jobs I have lined up as that is not the way I planned my day. Silly to some but absolute chaos in my head! DS is exactly the same and it is painful to watch him suffer and get agressive. I can remove myself and go out for a bit to recharge. I have been begging the school to allow DS this recharge time but can they see it? noooo

I dont think there is any remedy in a bottle that can take this away. Only learning coping strategies that can get him through.

pop, you're right - most schools and parties are the total opposite of what we need at the moment. But there are ways to get schools to take autism needs as seriously as they take (for example) wheelchair access or hearing loops for children with hearing impairments. I just wish it was easier for parents and schools to work together rather than this current system which is so adversarial.
Parties - much easier if they are small and quiet and based around a fave activity/the other parents allow us an 'aspie corner' where we can do our thing and others can join in with us in some way. Takes some thinking about, but it can work if the parents are co-operative.
These are indeed early days for the world around us in catering for our needs, and I can understand parents wanting to help their child any way they can at the moment. Just wish that there was more good research and sensibly priced stuff to help.

Hello, whilst I empathise with Amberlight's own condition; that of myself and my severely regressed son Nathan have benefitted enormously from biomedical intervention, including Clay Bath Chelation and most of the catalogue of supplements being maligned here.
I am concerned that the post by Amberlight is blatant scaremongering as there has never been ANY recorded death or even serious harm from HOME TREATMENT, NATUROPATHIC SUPPLEMENTS such as all and any of those mentioned whereas the have been thousands of deaths within conventional medicine for even quite minor things.
There is NO science presented to back up anything said and plenty to back the product manufacturers. The FDA does not always act in the individuals' best interests as they are a government approved division for approving GMO farming etc and are being shown in very poor light recently.
SO, to scare people with comments like "these products can cause serious harm, including dehydration, kidney failure, and death" is likely to cause a great deal of harm to families whose children were benefitting from well thought out naturopathic treatments but become too scared to carry on after seeing this diatribe.
Amberlight appears to have an axe to grind, and I actually agree with the trend of thought but it should not be allowed to affect others through disengenuous fear and scaremongering. I advise strongly against any heavy levels of Chelation until your child's immune sytem, blood brain barrier, any gut dysbiosis remedied and mitochondrial function are all restored to full strength. There is good photo coverage of many regressed autistic children who were glowing with health one month and then pallid echoes of themselves the next - my son was like this for two years and it has been through rigorous Diet; Biomedical Supplement regime calculated from full lab tests on blood, saliva, stool and hair; Homeopathy; Vestibular reprogramming; One to One practise as in the Son-Rise programme and Specialised Occupational/language/speech therapy; that he has now become so strong that he is ready for tougher Chelation. He went from hi flyer to low function autism (89 on the Atec scale) three years ago, he is now medium to high function (55 on Atec) and getting better by the month.
AND YES, the hardest thing is still for us to work out how to make his life easy/easier .. BUT we will not fall back into giving in and letting him have dairy - gets him stoned, gluten - manic then stoned, candy/aspartame/msg - super manic and violent then zombied.
mums - dont give up, these supplements work, especially when you use them in a way co-related to even simple tests. I recommend full lab tests, plus homeopathic tests for intolerance - i found out that although I love peanuts they do not love me and were the cause of my seriously irritable bowels (all better now). Allopathic medicine is about fighting or killing some ailment; naturopathy is about working with your own body to help it to be its own, much better, doctor. We survived the great plagues and became stronger and fitter, but now people are dying younger and there are more and more strains of diseases - this is because of too much chemical and drug interference from conventional medicine. Eat clean, be clean, grow clean and BE WELL. and it all takes TIME, not an overnight thing. Nathan has times when he has had further regressions and these have helped us find other things that advesely affect him and so helped pave the path to recovery (NOT CURE). My support, care and compassion to you ALL.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5508a3.htm

www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelationindex.html

ttp://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2006/01/chelation-death-the-coroner-speaks-subtitled-look-before-you-leap/

Whilst I agree that foods can cause some difficulties, in some children, I think that people should be extremely careful about what they get into, medically or otherwise. Dd2, who has written here on occasion has Aspergers, ADHD, ODD, SPD and is Dyslexic. I don't give her Ritalin or any other drugs, I give her coping strategies and a sensible diet. To me, that is being a responsible parent. I certainly would not give 'alternative' unscientific, untested remedies. And yes, I too would scaremonger if it was going to save a child's life.

Hi NaturalHealingDad

Thanks for posting about your experiences. Very interesting.

Are you saying that this clay bath is a very low level Chelation, and therefore is good?

I know my kids are intolerant of gluten and dairy. And I know they're intolerant to something else too, but I don't know what.

Can you recommend what I should do to test for their intolerances?

Thanks