PhD dedication

[appropriatelytrained]

I'm getting my PhD bound. I'd like to dedication to all of you brave folks forced to battle for our kids. You've absolutely kept me going and got me through this

I'm looking for a pithy quote or saying from someone of note to sum the whole thing up

So far, I'm considering
Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with this, except that it ain't so. ~Mark Twain, Notebook, 1935

Any advances!!!

'objectively measurable within the programme'

eh?

For a non-tribunal situation I would ask in writing what the frig that means. For a tribunal situation I would mention that response and ask them to explain it to the judge off the cuff.

The delegation document is actually just for Speech Therapy Assistants but it's interesting how rigorous it is in comparison to what is in place for schools.

The other thing to check is whether it is written up as a treatment plan or as advice. I think you can get away without measuring advice e.g. if you write a report that identifies e.g. idioms as an area that was noted to cause difficultes but you simply used this to advise people to avoid them/explain them or directed the school to resources on idioms, that's a bit different.

All SLTs are required to have a treatment plan for every client but - and I hate to tell you this - that can literally be: "will assess X" and the outcome is: "assessed X". It all depends on how it's written up.

I have to say again it would help if SLTs were given proper training in data measurement. Would solve a lot of the issues we currently have. I don't think all SLTs need an MSc in ABA, but they do need to know how to define their target behaviourally e.g. as a SMART target and how to measure a baseline. I think it's managed pretty well where things are discrete e.g. speech sounds etc but is woefully mismanaged with reference to communication.

I just got a book 'Social Skills Solutions - A Hands On Manual' by Kelly McKinnon and Janis Krempa 2002.

It was one of those books that you just randomly click on when you're having an Amazon flush (possibly just me).

It looks like just what I was after. A social skills assessment checklist and then a suggested programme/tasks etc. It looks really promising actually. It is (although I never knew this at the time) an ABA manual.

Now I've been thinking, as I look through the checklist, about some of the things working has been saying about social skills being much more complex than behavioural 'actions' and an argument used very willingly by service providers who don't want to measure or be accountable or engage with any behavioural techniques.

But the thing is, as I look at my checklist I see hope. It might not be the right way of teaching social skills, but it is a way, as opposed to no way.

Dismissing behavioural techniques due to the complexity of social skills development is all very well if you have a valid and proven alternative, but you can't dismiss it because 'you don't agree with it' and deliver waffle with no rationale instead.

Thanks again working.

This is actually for his S&LT programme which is part of his statement.

The statement requires a "structured speech and language programme as advised, reviewed and monitored by the S&LT".

This is to be delivered by staff with 'the appropriate level of training, support and monitoring by the S&LT"

It also says that this is to be delivered by staff with 'the appropriate level of training, support and monitoring by the S&LT"It also confirms that the S&LT "will liaise with parents and school staff as regards joint target setting, progress and evaluation"

Sounds interesting Star. Is it worth getting?

Yes, I think so, although only got it this afternoon.

I suppose it depends on what your problems are. I have found it near impossible to get a list of social skills from anywhere so chosing what to work on has been a bit random, but this book gives me a list and a logical order, with potential mini-programmes to address the weak areas (although there isn't an AWFUL lot of this so I think I'll have to figure out strategies for myself).

My only issue really is that it is 2002, which is pretty out of date in a fast-moving area, but I don't think the information/strategies contained in it is particularly time-bound.

I can imagine with older children you may even be able to talk to them about the skills that they need help with

StarChart - before I rush out and buy the book can you give me a hint as to what kind of stuff is in it.

I mean would it be suitable for a NT kid? Or only for an ASD toddler?

Have you seen Autism Partnership's Crafting Connections, Star? This may be more what you are looking for re: programming (though I haven't seen it I did at one point do a little bit of work for them and saw a lot of good social skills stuff, a lot of which I still use).

I wasn't suggesting social skills couldn't be measured because they are complex! Just that there's a lot that we don't know enough about to analyse properly yet, so it can be ignored in programming... there is more to do.

Most of what I do in terms of social skills has a very behavioural format.

Analog task that will show up skill deficit e.g. get the kids to try to negotiate what game to play for 5 minutes
Discuss - what went wrong
Introduce Skill - discuss negotiation and break it down into steps based on that task
Discriminate Skill - good example/bad example
Role Play Skill in that situation
Feedback - did it work?
New situation - opportunity for students to apply new skill
Feedback + Reward

We also have nebulous stuff in there. M G Winner's characters that describe things that go wrong in social interactions e.g. rigidity (Rock Brain), inappropriate humour (Sir Jokesalot), social anxiety (WorryWall), distractibility (BrainEater) etc feature a lot in our discussions. The kids find them very reinforcing and enjoy talking about them and they convey complex ideas in a way that allows kids to give eachother feedback on their communication and laugh about it at a level that adolescent males, let alone adolescent males with autism, typically find challenging e.g. "X, your brain is like a rock today man. I can't get anything across to you, it's frustrating me!". This is from kids who couldn't identify happy and sad reliably two years ago, let alone communicate that to a peer. I've never measured it well sadly because I'm too busy measuring the planned stuff but truthfully some of the best learning has been "in the moment" from "teachable moments".

I really want to see a proper behavioural taxonomy of social behaviours. I just don't think we have it yet and I think if we ever do, some of the airy fairy stuff will still have its place. However, I scorn anyone who expects to see behavioural change from the airy fairy stuff alone. You need to show them what to do and explain why in an accessible and motivating way for them. We go through a lot of jelly beans even at this level!

working, I have it and it would be perfect except for the fact (As I'm finding with everything) my ds is a 4yr old with problems that are usually addressed when aged 8 and in more structured, academic lessons etc.

I don't want to wait until he is 8 to address them because his peers have the skills now and it would mean letting him fall behind them for another 4 years.

This damn ABA has been so sucessful for him but there is nowhere to go now. His language disorder I am told, cannot be resolved until he can read and is learning to write stories, at least they don't know what to do in the meantime.

Okay, so a teaching strategy for developing friendships:

In a small social group or class, put two giant different coloured hula-hoops on the ground (one red and one green). Hold up pictures of favourite topics i.e. food, books, tv programme, activity and get those that like the items to go to the green hula hoop and those that don't to go to the red.

Teaches 'we like the same thing' or 'we don't like the same thing' and the motor movements promotes participation and attending. From there you can indentify common interests of the children and use that to plan and foster the 'shared' interest. Possibly even plan playdates based on the common interests.

(The above is just the first strategy I found on a randomly chosen page).

There are 3 levels of social skills checklists and for each 'skill' you rate whether it can be done at 1:1, group or a natural/spontaneous setting, so you can track progress.

For each level there are 'modules' with module 1 being Joint attention, 2 greetings, 3 social play, 4 self awareness, 5 Conversations, 6 Perpective taking, 7 Critical Thinking skills, 8 Advanced Language, 9 Developing friendships, 10 Community/Home life.

So an example of 'social play' for level 1 would be turn taking for 5 turns, level 2 Follows play and understands games such as who's IT, and level 3 might be awareness of pop culture games/play.

It is probably very basic and obvious to professionals but I always get the feeling that people like to talk a lot about deficit social skills but gloss over what that means or what might be done. Instead preferring to suggest that ds will get them in time by just being amongst his peers and if he doesn't then that will be because of his ASD.

Working You sound truly wonderful.

'I've never measured it well sadly because I'm too busy measuring the planned stuff but truthfully some of the best learning has been "in the moment" from "teachable moments".'

Ah yes. I have this. I am soooo on top of ds' skills, where he is at, what he needs to know that I just 'see' opportunities to introduce new skills, practise others and develop more. Or I just have an idea and 'probe' it and practise and see it work or ds begins to use the skill spontaneously and unexpectedly which gives me the opportunity to teach the next level, there and then.

It is EXTREMELY hard to measure this stuff. NOT because it isn't measurable, but because it is 'in the moment' and even if it was properly planned, when you can teach it is unpredictable and you are unlikely to, at that moment, have the tools you need to record it properly.

Working - can I just ask, based on what I have mentioned about DS's programme, does all the practice guidance you mention apply?

I think the problem with these programmes can be that you need to cling on to the measurable bit as otherwise schools and S&LTs will use the vagueness to do sod all and pretend wonderful progress is being made.

You have to be saying all the time - prove it. Or no one will do anything and your child will be taken to have the benefit of an intervention he has never really had

AT, not sure about the delegation but the others, yes.

Star, what about Do-Watch-Listen-Say? It's a while since I've worked with little ones so I can't remember off the top of my head.

I have had success with this with some young children but obviously it's a very specific skill subset.

This is one that is good in schools for PSHE type things but can be adapted for students with difficulties. Again, can't remember it all so it has good and bad bits but some nice activities.

Although it sounds that this might not be ideal for your ds, it does have all sorts of resources and checklists for setting up play situations which you could adapt and behaviouralise: Integrated Peer Groups

'you need to cling on to the measurable bit'

Too right.
It would be my number one piece of advice to a parent involved in these sorts of Kafkaesque farces.

They make me so fucking angry-all the enrgy that could be going into kids goes into playing these stupid games.

Moondog, you're right but you can't fight jelly.

There really is not much of a come back to the responses to evidence based practice such as 'measuring takes away time from intervention and we do not agree with it' and 'professional opinion is how we measure progress, we are outstanding teachers as rated by Ofsted' and 'You want us to keep data? I'm sorry but that is an unreasonable amount of work'.

DS is to start a new school that don't want him. Their response will be 'piss of we didn't want him anyway'. My response will be that it really is better to work with me than against and daily battles and alienation will ensue - I expect.

Having said that I 'think' that I have an easy tribunal win this time that will sort it all out for DS, at least for a year. But I really do need to find the evidence to justify twice weekly SALT sessions IN the classroom, just for a year, which is the weakest point. I can justify the money as I know where it can come from in his statement, but it will have to transfer from the LA to the NHS which will be fought.

Thank you for those links Working. Due to tribunal (Well not so much tribunal but lack of support in statement), we are likely to be home-schooling for ther first term of Reception and I already have a small network of other children to work with.

We got ds onto the 1st percentile in social skills doing ABA at home with no peers and not even working much on them (believing we were going to win tribunal and get ABA in school) and we know now that in a year at Nursery ds hasn't progressed beyond 1st percentile (which is actually progress in that he has remained in line with his peers, just very very low) and I have no doubt at all that we can increase his percentile ranking out of school in just one term. Those links might help.

but you can't fight jelly..

Indeed. Star, everything you say is what I have received back. They push this to the limit.

DS's S&LT was prepared to take the evidence of progress from a Senco reading from a TA's notes. The TA wasn't there.

To the first point from SENCO 'we've exceeded the target already', I asked 'how did you measure that?'

No one could answer it. S&LT talks of 'professional opinion' yet she hasn't worked with DS on this and neither has SENCO. So they are going on the professional judgment of an untrained and absent TA.

Really, what was the point in her being there? She may as well just rung up school and said 'it's all going ok isn't it?' and wait for school to say'we think so'. Oh, silly me, she had a report to write for Tribunal or we wouldn't have seen her for dust.

Who needs S&LT on a statement? Three hours this woman was at school most of it spent arguing about what hadn't been done and what she wasn't doing or how things couldn't be measured.

Her corporate stance: it's for school to decide how to record, it's for school to decide if targets are met. Really what is the point?

1st percentile in social skills..

Star how is that tested in percentile terms?

'Really what is the point?'

My sentiments entirely about huge swathes of the 'Special Needs' industry (and remember it is just that-an industry).

Sorry, not helpful to situation in hand.

And may I once again recommend this electrifying book which blows the house of cards that is 'modern educational practice' to smithereens.

An essential read.

This is also fantastic. One of my main influences and guides. Heavier than the first thoguh.

It's the Vineland Adaptive scales and it is pretty crude, but it is still a measurement that can be compared over time.

You should (if not already) get hold of a copy of the National Autism Plan as this sets out the relevant tests and assessments and what they are used for.

Yes, but really Moondog, you can be as sensible as you can and ask all kinds of telling questions but the answer is usually 'no, because we said so' and it is such accepted practice for this to be an okay answer that everyone in the room will nod along.

As a parent in a room fool of nodding sheep that are unwilling to grasp such common sense it really is quite a frightening scene.

That isn't to say people shouldn't challenge or that they should give up, but I wonder if many parents realise when they embark on their journeys quite how hopeless it really is.