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S&LT battle - any S&LT advice

86 replies

appropriatelytrained · 09/06/2011 17:36

OK. NHS S&LT therapist is suddenly appearing next week as Tribunal reports have to be filed soon.

She has never undertaken any assessments with DS but is wanting to measure progress. She has previously met DS once for half an hour to model a session for his useless TA.

He is supposed to get S&LT visits a year. 3 of them (including this one) have already been used up without any sign of progress.

I have two problems:

(i) I really resent this woman appearing just because she has a report to do when she has not worked with my son, trained his TA or offered guidance on how targets are to be measured/ work recorded etc. She will just be saying 'yup indirect therapy going fine'

(ii) bloody stupid TA is a lying cow who is just interested in making herself look good. One of DS's targets is to encourage communication with adults. We got our own S&LT involved who organised with her how she is to do this e.g. send DS on messages etc. She has done absolutely nothing. I know cos DS liked the message stuff when it started but tells me he hasn't done this for weeks

LA have recently had their application to add a senior S&LT to their witness list for Tribunal refused so this is getting very heated.

I really hate the thought of them putting DS through assessements just to fix them for Tribunal purposes when they couldn't bother to assess him before. It will only go one way because they have already decided what they are going to write. I wish I could tell them to f* off.

I want advice on what kind of questions I can ask about how progress should be recorded and monitored and how I can deal with the inevitably lying TA and the S&LT's failure to bother to train or advise or even appear to assess before.

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working9while5 · 10/06/2011 00:07

Some of those long-winded are for diagnostic purposes though. I know I have written them during my time "doing diagnosis" but the "outcome" there was very much based on whether or not a label was assigned, with therapy being something different. It's not how it should be and I dislike the mystifying self-importance of a lot of those diagnostic processes (sssh!).

I hear you on the need for target sheets to be A4 page length or shorter.

moondog · 10/06/2011 00:12

I ca naccept long winded stuff for a diagnosis of some sort, yes indeed.
Particularly if the outcome leads to some sort of specific provision.

However the amount of 'observation and assessment' and admin that occurs in the NHS in comparison to rolling up of sleeves and bloody well getting on with it is truly frightening and depresses me beyond belief.

If anyone wanted to 'assess' or 'observe' my child, I wouldn't let them within an inch of them without getting specific written information on what the purpose was.

However I accept that this is easy for me to say with my insider's view and most anxious parents wanting support for communication impaired children can get easily swept up in the maelstrom of 'observation, assessment, and appointments.

Have I shared Parkinson' s Laws with you 9-5?
It sums up my entire jaundiced view of public sector work.

Parkinson's First Law: Work expands to fill the time available.
Parkinson's Second Law: Expenditures rise to meet income.
Parkinson's Third Law: Expansion means complexity; and complexity decay.
Parkinson's Fourth Law: The number of people in any working group tends to increase regardless of the amount of work to be done.
Parkinson's Fifth Law: If there is a way to delay an important decision the good bureaucracy, public or private, will find it.
Parkinson's Law of Sience: The progress of science varies inversely with the number of journals published.
Parkinson's Law of Delay: Delay is the deadliest form of denial.
Parkinson's Law of Data: Data expands to fill the space available.
Parkinson's Law of Meetings: The time spent in a meeting on an item is inversely propotional to its value (up to a limit).
Parkinson's Law of 1000: An enterprise employing more than 1000 people becomes a self-perpetuating empire, creating so much internal work that it no longer needs any contact with the outside world.

Amen to all of that.

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:13

So is it reasonable to expect the S&LT to

(a) assess the child before setting targets
(b) provide guidance on how the targets are to be implemented - explicitly
(c) to provide advice about recording the work done in relation to the targets a
(d) to come and measure progress in relation to the above

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appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:14

If anyone wanted to 'assess' or 'observe' my child, I wouldn't let them within an inch of them without getting specific written information on what the purpose was.

Yes, I feel like this, but, I'm facing Tribunal. I can't refuse to let them assess my child

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moondog · 10/06/2011 00:15

Yes.

I wouldn't dream of working any other way.
I use a lot of electronic tools to measure progress and take data which most s/lts wouldn't use.
It means I can monitor from my office or indeed the comfort of my own home (as I have in fact done tonight.)

moondog · 10/06/2011 00:16

Yes AT, I know that and I wouldn't advise not allowing them access to your child for this reason.
So sorry, it must be so terribly upsetting and drainnig for you.
I have been to the brink of this myself (having a child with comm. difficulties myself) and it was a harrowing experience.

Be strong.

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:19

If anyone wanted to 'assess' or 'observe' my child, I wouldn't let them within an inch of them without getting specific written information on what the purpose was.

Yes, I feel like this, but, I'm facing Tribunal. I can't refuse to let them assess my child

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appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:19

Sorry, don't know what happen there....double post.

Thanks moondog for your help

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working9while5 · 10/06/2011 00:20

I agree with most of them but I am a fan of Science! Mostly...

working9while5 · 10/06/2011 00:22

Sorry AT, I feel I highjacked, it is very late.

I think you can still ask them to be specific about the purpose, especially as it seems that they are assessing to "prove" that your current provision is adequate having done nothing heretofore?

You have an SLT involved - has she contacted the NHS SLT? I know that there are guidelines that the private practitioner needs to inform the NHS SLT of involvement and negotiate roles and this has been used against parents who have been going to Tribunal in the past..

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:25

Sorry, don't know what happen there....double post.

Thanks moondog for your help

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moondog · 10/06/2011 00:26

Yes, the science one is not one I agree with totally!

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:28

Thanks 9-5. Yes, she has been working with her and has met her and swapped notes etc.

Do you think I should explicitly point out I think they are assesing to prove current provision is adequate?

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moondog · 10/06/2011 00:28

Yes, I agree!
It's the last that resonates most deeply.
9-5 is right AT.The protocol for working together very clear (I know because I read it only a couple of months ago)
Ask them to lend you a copy of our professional guidelines 'Communicating Quality' and find the relevant question and quote liberally.

Another MNer facing tribunal triend this and the s/lt dept. refused to lend her a copy which speaks volumes and in itsaelf rings major alarm bells.

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:31

Moondog - we've done it all properly and collaboratively

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moondog · 10/06/2011 00:36

Well that's good for you personally but not so good for tribunal purposes.

Did you have s/lt provision written up in appropriate part of statement (ie Educational needs) where it should be?
Are you familiar with the Lancashire Judgement and its very serious implications for s/lt provision?
If not then get thee to IPSEA and the sectioin Significant Legal Cases pretty damned quick.

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 00:47

Sorry, I'm getting confused. What is not good for Tribunal purposes?

I mention the collaborative working in relation to the intervention of our own S&LT. She is not the S&LT who will appear at Tribunal. We arranged for her attendance at school as a stopgap as provision had not commenced

We do have S&LT provision in the statement. In pts 2 and 3. Our argument is that they are not offering enough.

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appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 01:12

Sorry also did you agree that I should explicitly point out that I feel the report is being done for Tribunal purposes

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moondog · 10/06/2011 15:25

Sorry.
We are all confused now!
I mean that if your private s/lt has done stuff as she should that is great for all.
If the NHS one has not been great it is bad for you and your son BUT good for tribunal purposes as you can show up shoddy service.

I would get in witing the purpose of the assessment as it does indeed sound as if knnejerk recation to tribunal threat.

appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 16:34

Thanks. We have a Tribunal lined up for next month and reports have to be filed in 2 weeks - hence sudden reappearance.

Have put it in writing and asked for written confirmation of the nature of assessments to be used.

If you are reading LA and S&LT team - the sad thing is your best argument would have been to get this programme up and running like a dream and try and show the Tribunal how everything is working well.

Instead - statement issued in Jan, first visit is in May. Not training. TA doesn't know what she's doing. No assessment before setting targets. Come back in when Tribunal report date looms.

Looks great doesn't it?

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appropriatelytrained · 10/06/2011 17:18

Interestingly, the S< in question is now copying in the world and his wife in the S< dept. including the therapist who tried to get added as a 4th witness at Tribunal. Of course, none of these people have ever met my child

I'm thinking this report won't be the S< own words - collaborative effort more like it!!

Oh and she's not able to tell me about her planned assessments until next week. I've been asking for a week.

I'm thinking she needs to be told what she's doing and writing!

I'm so glad all these important people are involved in my child's care!

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moondog · 10/06/2011 17:25

Indeed.
The fact remains that unless you know the kid in question, all the meetings and reports and paperwork in the world don't help.
It's nuts it gets to this stage.
So depressing not only for those suffereing as a result but for many trapped within this Kafkaesque system.

feynman · 10/06/2011 17:36

Have pm'd you moondog thanks.

appropriatelytrained · 12/06/2011 17:28

Yes moondog, I agree. I actually feel sorry for the S&LT as she's clearly being dumped on by her managers and told exactly what they want out of all this.

Just to think - the best evidence they would have is to make this programme work if they could. Instead they're offering a crappy half-hearted service which bears no relation to the 'model' they want the Tribunal to think they are offering.

Frankly,I'd be emarrassed about this piss poor mess.

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StarlightMcKenzie · 12/06/2011 20:57

AT I have something for you Wink.

I know I have your email but if you just ping me with the title SALT I'll ping right back!