School problems (already) advice please

[Jimjams]

Have some fairly trivial school problems I've just been made aware of.

1. The teacher is inisiting ds1 sits on for the whole literacy and numeracy hour (please tell me there aren't two of these a day- is it one hour of the day?) which is all well and good, but he's not going to understand a word of it. The govt apparently says he has to "have access to the entire curriculum"- well yes but if his language skills are below that of his 21 month old baby brothers then sitting in a room of other children doing literacy and numeracy is not the same as having access to the curriculum.

2. there is a handdryer in the toilets which he is terrified of. He has now wet his pants twice becuase of this (and it also means he won't go in public toilets if he sees a handdryer). It was suggested (by his nursery manager) that as he is going to the toilet seperately the handdyrer is switched off at the wall when he is in there so it can't go off accidentally- but no go- the teacher won't have it.
3. I haven't got a home-school link book. I need something as I have no idea what goes on in there (obviously ds1 can't tell me).
4. Other minor stupid things like he'd just learned his LSA's christian name but has now been told he has to call her Mrs X. He can't say anything remotely like Mrs X. it doesn;t really matter because he only ever said it when he was saying goodbye anyway but I think its kind of sad he now can't say anything. I don't really mind about this but I think it just demostrates they don't really understand how far behind he is.

Now I think the literacy and numeracy hour would be a good time for him to do his one-to-one work with the LSA- surely there's a way that can include literacy anf numeracy.

None of this is major as he only attends 5 hours a week at the moment. Just wondering how best to go about addressing concerns. I don't want to go in like a bull in a china shop within a couple of weeks of him arriving. I think the very good autism outreach worker is in tomorrow and I'm hoping she'll sort out something about the hand dryer (whether its a phased introduction/desensitisation to it or turning it off) and also the literacy/numeracy hour.

I think overall I'm just worried as I think the school are expecting too much. They are expecting him to be able to behave like a normal kid, when he can't. Of course its all early days- did anyone else have these sorts of problems initially and how did you go about sorting them out?

Thanks everyone. I think it has been a bit of a learning curve. I got the impression the school were actually a bit at a loss and didn't quite now what to do. Priase be for the outreach teacher, as she seems to have helped a lot. And this is where the school have come into their own as the senco secured access to her (LEA originally said no as the school is in a different LEA). So thanks to the school and thanks to the senco. must remember to say thank you to them at the end of the term as well.

Bottles of wine all round!

Glad to hear you have got things sorted out jimjams - you are determined!

Can I just pick up on something and ask how you determined the IQ of your ds? I asked at ds's assessment about his IQ and they said it would be difficult to measure at the moment due to most of the tests for IQ being related to language, ie carrying out instructions which he isn't good at. How is he learning to read - how do you know he is reading if he isn't speaking? Does he point at words? Sorry for all the questions!

Sorry I was just using IQ as a general term to mean no general learning difficulties. TBH a lot of the IQ tests for young children require a degree of dexterity that ds1 hasn't got anyway because of his dyspraxia. Last year I asked a few people about IQ - making it clear that I wasn't interested in what it was only that I wanted confirming it was in the normal range - the reason being had he had general learning difficulties as well as autism I would have wanted him at special school, not mainstream. It has been agreed by people who have worked with him that he is "intelligent". I suspect if he was given proper IQ tests they would find deficits in some areas to do with language and a ridiculously high one to do with visual stuff. Sorry I wasn't really talking about IQ as such, just meant he doesn't have any memeory problems or anything like that.

As for the reading- he had a number/letter/mathematical symbol (??) obsession when he was 2 so he learned a lot of stuff them. he used to like to point out letters on road signs- I'd say "where's the ...." and he would point to it. Then when he was three he started reading odd words- for example "one" he'd shout "coun" which means one every time he saw it. He also seemed to decode a few symbols like "tesco" etc. He just likes symbols and things really. I've spent a bit of time translating some of his book into PECS as he seems to like that- and I think it gives him a chance to visualise language and see how sentences are broken down into words rather than just being long streams of sounds. I'm not fussed about him reading yet as he doens't have the language for it to be of any use. If he language can come on then I suspct he will learn to read/decode very quickly. His memory is very good so I suspect he will do it by sight reading.

Thanks jimjams - I know that IQ is difficult to measure in anyone and that most people do have skills in different areas so can be hard to do generalised tests. Certainly sounds like your ds is doing well with recognising letters and words. I may try ds with some words but he may not be interested. I did notice that he said the title of one book and it was only the 2nd time we had read it but I think he was only looking at hte picture and remembered it. I wish he'd had his strengths explored more at the asst. but I guess there wasn't time. One thing I was amazed at was we went to a differnet part of the hospital for his hearing test. It was at a clinic we'd never been to before. There was several turns in the corridor to get tothe treatment room. He did the test and we went back out and I wasn't sure of the way back but he ran off ahead and went exactly the right way. Coincidence maybe ...or perhaps he is good at making a cognitive map. He likes those puzzles where you find the right route to make sure Thomas gets to his shed for example but I can never tell if he is doing them right because he doesn't follow the line closely with his finger. Exasperating aren't they!

Jimjams - did not get online till now - have been re-roofing the shed and clearing gutters
Also taxi-ing youngsters almost to the next county for a party...
So glad your meeting went well. Your LSA will be spending a lot of time with your ds and it is so important that you have a good relationship.
Just off to hit the red wine!

Hey he sounds like my ds1 eulalia. I have a very good sense of direction (I am always staggered at how bad most people seem to be - lol ) but ds1- he is in a different league. If I am not sure of the way somewhere I let him lead and he always takes me to the right place. I think its that whole visual thing. I should read some Temple Grandin (thinking in pictures) she's like that.

Thanks Mooma

Hampton Court Maze?? We could let them lead the way

Yes it would be strange - would they just stand on their own and ignore each other I wonder?

I was thinking about the whole language thing again today as ds is talking more practically every day and it does highlight the difficulties and also the fact that he sees the world differently. As far as I can see he (and probably most autistic children) see things in just small parts and find it difficult to generalise in the right contexts. I showed him a piece of broccoli on the end of my fork and asked him what it was (I had told him a few mins earlier) and he said what sounded like ?rake?, and repeated this several times when asked. Then I wondered if he was actually talking about the fork, but he uses the word fork all the time??? So does it become a rake because it has something on the end of it? So then I tried again a minute later with just the broccoli and he said ?light? but again not clear as he finds ?l? difficult but it could be because the floret looks just like a lamp. So... he is generalising the shape of the object as being lamp-like and ignoring the fact that it something to eat. I think this is because he tends to zoom in on a tiny detail and not see the whole object eg a semi-circular shape on our chopping board is a rainbow. I am also wondering jimjams if your son is doing this but perhaps even to a greater extent and maybe some things look differently eg in different lights or if they are moved to a different place so this could be why he is seeming to change his language because the thing itself looks different?

Anyway for us it is getting easier as I can know now that he is making mistakes but even so he is quite resistant to being told what is correct. Eg today he wanted some milk and he said the carton was ?empty? and I said it was full but he said ?no its not full? and he even said ?look its got milk in it?. He had it completely the wrong way round. This shows that he has probably heard the words empty and full in relation to the milk carton and has memorised them but hasn?t really understood what they mean so I will have to test him on this. It makes me also realise how a lot of his speech is just cued memory recall rather than comprehension. Its hard to tell and he is often determined that his way is right, so typically autistic, that his world is the right one...

BTW he first showed a slightly strange use of language around 15 months. One of his words was "hat" used correctly. At the same time he had an obsession with lids and liked those plastic containers with tight fitting lids. One day he was playing with these and he said "hat" several times. I thought how clever of him to transfer the idea of a lid as being a 'hat' on something. He also more recently, maybe 6 months ago and before much speech said "birthday cake" when I came in the room holding a tray and he was actually looking at the posture of my body and the tray as being similar to when someone carries a cake into the room. Can't remember what was on the tray but it wasn't remotely cake-like!

Ho hum

Well there we were things were going smoothly all set to up his number of days after half term and withdraw his nursery worker from school and the LSA has had to resign (not her fault- her mother has been taken serioulsy ill and has had to move in with her). Just one of those things. So now back to square 1. The trouble is the school now want to push ahead and go ahead without the nursery worker anyway. I think this is heading for disaster as the surest way for him to have a meltdown is if he can't make himself understood- and see feeling beaten up thread for the the long term problems with meltdowns. So now need to explain to school the problem with this.

I am looking forward to being able to dump ds2 in any school and not have to worry about him

Tamum and Davros- thank you btw- I have produced ds1 an "on" book- the hoover is on the chair etc and he loves it. Making books is a good idea as I can incorporate pecs symbols as well as text. Next will be the under book.

Oh and tamum- I've been talking about you (don't worry- to lrn- he's as lovely as ever- I ignored my embarrassment about viva and contacted him- glad I did).

what an unfortunate turns of events. I just cant see why they dont realise how disrupting this is going to be to your ds. It must be so upsetting and frustrating for you. Always make me wonder how some kids get on if their parents arent 'supervising' what happens.

Oh Jimjams what a blow for you and ds ... you must be really disappointed. Have they appointed a new LSA? What are his hours being upped to after half term? (Not sure that's a grammatical sentence )

jimjams, how awful! Its such a shame that the LSA has to leave, can't she work some notice while a new one is found? What about leaving the hours/sessions as they are now and keeping the nursery worker's input, i.e. status quo bar LSA? You could also suggest that YOU will go in instead of the LSA (not saying you could actually do this with DS2 to deal with but it might get them to sort something out).
Your "On Book" reminds me of a mum I know who has a little company making simple materials, they're called Matchstix. They're very nice but a little pricey. I think you might find them very useful. Maybe you could get the school to buy some? Look here

They have a stand in LSA that they want to use. the described her as being ASD trained- but on closer questioning that turned out to mean that she has helped with an AS boy part time since september. the nursery worker said she didn't even realise when ds1 was speaking (she thought he was just making random noises- eek). She's also not pecs trained- so effectively he would
be left with no way to babysit. I'm happy for him to do 3 days- but only with the nursery keyworker there as well. They have the funding for her so I don't really see what the problem is tbh. I have a feeling the school are coming under pressure from the LEA otherwise their whole stance doesn't really make sense. Anyway nursery manager is trying to sort it out for me. I think we need to impress on them the fastest way to a meltdown is if he isn't understood- and a bad meltdwn could leave him refusing to go to school at all.

sorry left with no way to communicate- 2 thought proceses going on at once there I think.

The other problem is that they've seen him get cross (for example becuase they wanted him to use the "wrong" sink) but they haven't seen him loose it big time (which usually involves blood- his normally occasionally mine). I don't think they would cope with that at all- and the trouble is they probably couldn't prevent it happening- wheras his keyworker often can- because she sees it coming far enough in advance.

Surely she should be PECs trained? And surely she should have experience with ASD! Bloody hell jimjams I feel really sorry for you both. Sorry not very good advice but I am gobsmacked

Jimjams re the 'On' book (and please excuse me if this has been gone over before/you know all of this already) Try to make sure that when something is 'on', that it is 'on' in the middle of the table etc. There is evidence to show that when children first grasp the idea of 'on' it is when things are in the middle of the table. As their understanding grows they accept that it is still 'on' when it is near the edge of the table etc. Same sort of thing with under.

Hope things improve at school for your ds.

Oh jimjams, so sorry you've had another set-back. I do hope you get things sorted. I'm very glad the book is working, and glad you've contacted L..! Tell him to get in touch if he's ever in my neck of the woods, won't you. Did he want your slugs?

No- he's moved onto sharks!

Blimey, that's the last field trip I go on with him then!

he's off cage diving soon with great whites!