School problems (already) advice please

[Jimjams]

Have some fairly trivial school problems I've just been made aware of.

1. The teacher is inisiting ds1 sits on for the whole literacy and numeracy hour (please tell me there aren't two of these a day- is it one hour of the day?) which is all well and good, but he's not going to understand a word of it. The govt apparently says he has to "have access to the entire curriculum"- well yes but if his language skills are below that of his 21 month old baby brothers then sitting in a room of other children doing literacy and numeracy is not the same as having access to the curriculum.

2. there is a handdryer in the toilets which he is terrified of. He has now wet his pants twice becuase of this (and it also means he won't go in public toilets if he sees a handdryer). It was suggested (by his nursery manager) that as he is going to the toilet seperately the handdyrer is switched off at the wall when he is in there so it can't go off accidentally- but no go- the teacher won't have it.
3. I haven't got a home-school link book. I need something as I have no idea what goes on in there (obviously ds1 can't tell me).
4. Other minor stupid things like he'd just learned his LSA's christian name but has now been told he has to call her Mrs X. He can't say anything remotely like Mrs X. it doesn;t really matter because he only ever said it when he was saying goodbye anyway but I think its kind of sad he now can't say anything. I don't really mind about this but I think it just demostrates they don't really understand how far behind he is.

Now I think the literacy and numeracy hour would be a good time for him to do his one-to-one work with the LSA- surely there's a way that can include literacy anf numeracy.

None of this is major as he only attends 5 hours a week at the moment. Just wondering how best to go about addressing concerns. I don't want to go in like a bull in a china shop within a couple of weeks of him arriving. I think the very good autism outreach worker is in tomorrow and I'm hoping she'll sort out something about the hand dryer (whether its a phased introduction/desensitisation to it or turning it off) and also the literacy/numeracy hour.

I think overall I'm just worried as I think the school are expecting too much. They are expecting him to be able to behave like a normal kid, when he can't. Of course its all early days- did anyone else have these sorts of problems initially and how did you go about sorting them out?

twat?

whoops that wasnt aimed at you chattee just helping jimjams with her literacy hour

I can't spell for toffee, I did an on line test that said I am dyslexic....not convinced either way, but at school my English teacher was convinced of it.

Re the rules. Tell me about it! I've just spent an hour teaching some very disruptive year 11s about the carbon cycle. And why did I try to do this? because it is in the NC and I have to. This class will get a F-G at GCSE if they are lucky, and 1/4 Biology modules is esoteric information about plants. It bore the socks off them (and me if I'm honest). So why can't I use the time and teach them interesting and useful stuff about how the human body works? Given the extra time they would probably do better, but no, inclusion is all.

Actually the issue with this class isn't SEN. There is only one person in that class on the regester, and he is one of the nicest kids in the class. It's all attitude!

It's spelt bureaucrat I think but I like Fio's spelling better! Jimjams, no advice, just sympathy.

hmb - know exactly what you mean about the rules and having to teach everything to everyone. I teach ICT at secondary, soon to be a core subject at KS4 apparantly. I have some real bottom band sets (they are genuinely SN tobe honest) and some almost bottom sets (attitude issues and 'can't be bothered/don't want to be here' issues mainly) and I still have to teach them everything in the National Strategy even though they can only just remember how to even log on from one week to the next. I have had discussions about this with LEA blokes recently but they just haven't a clue have they? Makes me mad - I could be teaching these kids real transferable skills that they could apply to all their other larning but no - I apparantly have to teach them how to use spreadsheets and ddatabases instead!

Sorry - off track I know but felt the need to rant about this!

CnR, I agree so much! If they are going to get poor grades why not spend more time teaching them a part of the NC so that they understand it. Why not do one thing well instead of 2 things badly. And why the hell do these kids need to know that the names of the layers of a leaf for goodness sake??? Why not tell they about nutrition and keeping healthy, contraception and child care? Why not wow them with the interesting bits of subjects?

And I'd start with basic manners for a start!

Sorry to rant off topic, but it was a hellish last lesson.

Maybe the people who decide these things should come and try teahing these kids sometime, or try listening to the professional opinions of their teachers.

Oh well, got yet more lesson insoections tomorrow so best go and finish my planning - even though some kids won't have a clue anyway!

Doesn't make you want to scream!

jimjams-
surely if your ds goes to the toilet with his lsa then if she turns off the hand dryer just as he goes in and then turns it back on as he goes out this is not going to be a major problem..
during the numeracy/literacy could this not be used again more productively with his 1:1??
talk to the senco and mention points on the iep(hopefully it is just ignorance of your ds's needs rather than stupid p.c iykwim)
good luck, keep us informed

jimjams-
surely if your ds goes to the toilet with his lsa then if she turns off the hand dryer just as he goes in and then turns it back on as he goes out this is not going to be a major problem..
during the numeracy/literacy could this not be used again more productively with his 1:1??
talk to the senco and mention points on the iep(hopefully it is just ignorance of your ds's needs rather than stupid p.c iykwim)
good luck, keep us informed

jimjams-
surely if your ds goes to the toilet with his lsa then if she turns off the hand dryer just as he goes in and then turns it back on as he goes out this is not going to be a major problem..
during the numeracy/literacy could this not be used again more productively with his 1:1??
talk to the senco and mention points on the iep(hopefully it is just ignorance of your ds's needs rather than stupid p.c iykwim)
good luck, keep us informed

jimjams-
surely if your ds goes to the toilet with his lsa then if she turns off the hand dryer just as he goes in and then turns it back on as he goes out this is not going to be a major problem..
during the numeracy/literacy could this not be used again more productively with his 1:1??
talk to the senco and mention points on the iep(hopefully it is just ignorance of your ds's needs rather than stupid p.c iykwim)
good luck, keep us informed

jimjams-
surely if your ds goes to the toilet with his lsa then if she turns off the hand dryer just as he goes in and then turns it back on as he goes out this is not going to be a major problem..
during the numeracy/literacy could this not be used again more productively with his 1:1??
talk to the senco and mention points on the iep(hopefully it is just ignorance of your ds's needs rather than stupid p.c iykwim)
good luck, keep us informed

jimjams-
surely if your ds goes to the toilet with his lsa then if she turns off the hand dryer just as he goes in and then turns it back on as he goes out this is not going to be a major problem..
during the numeracy/literacy could this not be used again more productively with his 1:1??
talk to the senco and mention points on the iep(hopefully it is just ignorance of your ds's needs rather than stupid p.c iykwim)
good luck, keep us informed

oops thats more than a triple whammy...sorry

Hope things start going better. My small piece of advice is when you go in to talk to them this time, set up the next meeting. That way, it's already there and you don't have to wonder if something is important enough to set up a special meeting. (Well, maybe, but try and make it sooner than you think you'd need it... because, I think, you'll need it sooner than you think you'll need it.)

Also, wrt to him having "access" to the NC: "access" seems to imply allowing him to be involved in that curriculum, as opposed the making it necessary that he is involved. They're doing both, but they seem to only need to do the former. And, therefore, they should allow him 121 help and also be willing to bring him into the NC when the occasion warrants. My bad analogy is that I have access to my cleaning agents, but I don't necessarily use them. He needs access, because everyone should have access, he just shouldn't be doing it now. (Hope that came out the right way.)

Good luck. I know a supplier of bricks, should you need them.

Whizzed through the replies, so apologies if I repeat anything anyone else has (probably more eloquently) said.

Reception is the Foundation Stage and definately pre-National Curriculum. It is VERY unusual for Reception children to be doing even parts of Literacy or Numeracy hour this early in the year. Numeracy hour and Literacy hour are NOT statuary by any means. They are useful guidelines and should be used as such. This is clearly laid out in a document titled 'Excellence and Enjoyment' which was published in the Spring. It might be worth asking if anyone in the school has actually read this?
In Reception, your son should be working on six areas of learning towards the early leraning goals. I find it really hard to believe that they are expecting him to sit for so long. I have a child with autism in my class (year 1) who comes in 4 half days (afternoons) and 1 full day. There's NO WAY that I'd expect him to do literacy and numeracy like the rest of the class do at this stage. Hopefully by the end of the year he will be able to access more of the curriculum (with his SNA), but until then, we have to do what is best for him. I think that although this teacher may have been OK with other autistic children, she doean't seem to have much empathy for your son, or much in the way of flexibility. It may not seem to be too major now - but it soon will be. You MUST go and talk to her ASAP and voice your concerns and make suggestions. If you meet with a brick wall, then is this the right place for your son?

Hi JimJams
New joiner to MumsNet and am seething at the way you are being treated. I am the mother of a 16 year old non speaker who was considered to have autistic tendancies. Can I point out a few home truths.

1. You are the only one who will fight for your child when everybody else goes home at night.
2. Educate yourself on your legal rights and the LEA's legal responsibilities.
3. Join as many support groups as possible - it will make you depressed but also help with advise and make you feel less alone as you travel a 'road less followed'.
4. Sorry lovely - the journey starts here and there are lots of stages - some interesting - some demeaning! Some suggestions. I take it that you have contacted the National Autistic Society. The Department of Education publishes a guide on statementing and special education. There is a big concern that children are left out of their entitlements due to wooly wording on statements. Also your LEA should have a Parent Partnership advisor who may suggest other avenues. Speak to an organisation called IPSEA who will adise you of your legal standing. Subscribe to a magazine called Special Children at www.education-quest.com. It will keep you up to date with special educational developments. You can then speak to the Teacher - give it a week, then the Head with an understanding of your child's rights - they do have a right to be educated! Look at your local autistic school - your child may benefit more from their teaching than inclusion - and please, dont be put off by the stigma of the 'label of the school' - there are a lot of dedicated, knowledgable professionals out there. It is a sad fact that parents like us can end up bullied because we think we need the teacher's assistance. Your son will lose educational time because this teacher will not seek help on how to properly assist him - you say that she has experience on dealing with autistic children - but is your child on the asbergers scale rather than autistic? You say he is very bright. Also hearing can be very acute in these chidren - what to us sounds like a whisper can be a roar - hence the problems with the flush and hand dryer - would a deaf child be exposed to the same hardship? You don't have to be The Terminator - but a quiet assertive understanding of your child and your expectations evens a relationship into a working one rather than an ignoring one - after all - your requests on behalf of your son are being ignored! Oh - biggy - put everything into writing. After every meeting - a quick note to the school to round up your understanding - get into this habit NOW - and you will have a record for when things become confrontentinal - not a she said/he said. I still don't understand why - if your son has an assistant - the dryer can't be turned back on once he leaves the toilet All the best - hope it helps!

Jimjams, stream of consciousness here! First, Inclusion does not mean being in a location it means functionally accessing what is happening there, just physically being there is not the point and this teacher needs to understand this. I have no idea about whether these kids should be doing this level of work, that's beyond my experience so far! Before you tackle the teacher direct I would try a pincer movement on her via your other forthcoming meetings and, as you already said, get the nursery manager to raise as many of the issues as possible. If you do think this is the right school, remember that the teacher will change next year which may seem like an eternity but is not really that long. Either way, you have to live in reaonable harmony with her! I know ASD children who go to m/s school and their own worksheets are sent in. They are doing the same general task as the other children, they get the experience of being part of the group but they are working at their own level, could be literacy or numeracy as relevant. I think there are lots of books of worksheets and he could practice them at home first as long as that doesn't make him bored with them. You can also laminate them so they can be reused.
He must have a home-school book as he cannot tell you how his day has been and what has happned at school. Warning though, be careful that it doesn't just descend into non-specific comments like "he was a bit hyper" or "he was a bit cheeky" etc, you need to know what is happening much more clearly. You could devise some sort of form but that would probably freak her out! Maybe itemise a few things you want to know about plus general comments. Maybe the LSA could make some notes on a form, just a few things like "hung coat on hook", "greeted teacher", "made eye contact with peer" and she can just put Y or N or cross or tick and whether prompted (P+). Personally I would completely ignore the issue about the LSA's name and, ooops, let him say whatever his version is, its so trivial its not woth bothering about. The hand dryer may seem trivial to the teacher but it is not as he must have sensory issues and it is preventing him using the toilet successfully in a place where it is important. DOn't know what to suggest though as gradual desensitisation is difficult as the sodding things go on and on! Also picked up info on the following workshop, don't know anything about the people or organisation but might be worth the effort?
Including Children with Autism in Mainstream Settings
How to include children with autism in mainstream primary & secondary settings - theory & practice
Carole Tashie, Colin Newton & Derek Wilson
Jan 22nd - Jan 23 London
All day professionals:- £399 plus VAT parents:- £100 plus VAT (£525
plus VAT - residential)
The Docklands Hilton
www.inclusive-solutions.com

I think you're handling this brilliantly, Jimjams. I agree with all the advice on organising meetings, enlisting the support of professionals who know him and/or know about autism and, especially, not being afraid to be assertive. It's usual to have a meeting within 6 weeks of the statement being finalised to discuss how the specified support is being used and that's often a good time to raise these sorts of issues, IME. But I'm not sure how far away that is for you... I'd definitely get the autism outreach worker to advise the school about how ds can best access the curriculum and be included in the classroom- that's her role, after all. And ask about the home-school book asap, I'd say. That's something the LSA can do very easily and it's so important for you to know what he's been up to- just emotionally as his mum, quite apart from tracking his educational progress or behaviour or whatever.

I guess the other side of this is about giving the school and ds plenty of time to get used to each other- because it will take a while, especially since he is starting slowly. It may be that some of these things will be easier for ds as he spends more time in school and becomes used to the routine. Also, as the teacher and LSA learn more about ds at first hand they may be more willing to work on solutions to things like the dryer because they will have a clearer perception of the extent of the problem.

Hang in there- hope things improve soon.

Thanks for the advice. I had a chat with his nursery key worker this morning. She feels the problem is that the teacher is a bit clueless. Apparently she wants him to stay in the all class literacy/numeracy bits (not sure it is an hour) providing he is quiet. The thing that worries me - is being the rather unusual autistic passive type he probably will learn to be quiet- but won't learn a single thing! Anyway I think the outreach teacher is in today, so I'll either try and have a chat with her or I think his nursery key worker will do. She's one of the few professionals I've met who is very very good so I'll have a word and hopefully she'll set something up for him.

The handryer is the biggest nightmare as pretty soon he'll refuse to go in all public toilets (refused at the weekend) so I need to talk to the teacher about this. Also asked the nursery assistant to talk to the outreach teacher- as they must have had this before. So hopefully something will be sorted. All I can think of is taping the bloody thing and playing it at home- but as Davros said that doesn't really get over the suddeness of the thing- or the air (he kind of freaks over the hairdryer).

Good idea about the worksheets etc Davros - I'll remmeber that for the future- dfor the moment though he can't even hold a pencil! I think he needs time to be doing OT type activities really. The OT is supposedly going to set up something for him at school so hopefully that will include alternatives.

Davros I like your idea about- greeted teacher, hung coat on peg etc.

Actually the name thing is laughable because no-one would know he was saying her first name anyway (he says dayheen- bet you don't know what her first name is :0 ).

The good thing is the LSA seems very good (despite having no experience of autism). She seems to intinsically know what's needed so hopefully once things are set up she will work very well with ds1.

The problem here seems to lie with the policy of "inclusion". From the teacher's point of view it is probably to involve him in as much of the normal routines and work of the class as possible. Fine, but it doesn't sound as if this is the "inclusion" that your ds needs right now. Is it enough for him to be in the same room as his classmates but working one-to-one on the same topic. Can he, for example, follow a story told to a group or is he just sitting marking time. Would that time be better spent with the LSA. I'm sure his teacher has the best of intentions but until she gets to know ds she won't really understand his capabilities. Has she spent one to one time with him at all yet ?

Someone else I think has already suggested that perhaps the schedule of an afternoon might suit him better as it was likely to be less formal.

hope you get a better idea of what is going on soon,

Jimjams, could you bear some more of my random thoughts? You know you were saying about your ds teaching himself to read, and him really needing to understand the meaning of words like "on" before reading will make any sense to him? Well, I was mulling this over last night when I couldn't sleep (as you do), and I was just wondering whether things like the Dr Seuss books might even help with that? You know where they have pages that say things like "Mouse on house, house on mouse" with the appropriate picture? It seems to me (and I may well be way off-beam with what would work for your ds, I realise) that once he'd understood what house and mouse meant, then the combination of words and pictures would be a very good way to understand what "on" means. As I say, this may be based on total misconceptions, and the pictures aren't necessarily going to appeal to all children anyway. Maybe you could make your own version with "toilet on stairs" "toy hoover on toilet" and so on
I really hope his teacher sees sense soon, BTW.

Just a quick one. Just back from a totally useless appointment with a paediatrician (an underling so a bit clueless). I got to rant for about an hour about lack of SALT so therapy for me anyway.

I goi the days mixed up- outreach teacher is there on Thursday. Anyway teacher has agreed that handryer can be switched off when he goes to the loo. Hooray!!! (Nursery helper had a chat with her at break time). The teacher is going to ring me on Friday so I'll ask her about home-link book then and hopefully the outreach teacher will set up something more appropriate for literacy hour.

Apparently he did quite well today although he spent the whole story time looking round humming "du dye mmbee" (bye bye Suzi- his nursery manager)

Tamum- he LOVES dr Seuess but he kind of gets carried away with the ryhyme and wants to get to the end iyswim. We do have some cards with pictures of dogs etc under buses and cars (not gory!) which he quite likes until ds2 storms in to have a look.

Tamum's ideas about teaching prepositions are good, we have done this with photos taken at home of my son on/in/under/behind/in front/on top of things and also with teddy or other people, its quite labour intensive though! THen we moved to asking him to go under/on etc and also doing it ourselves. He learnt in/on/under/on top fine but in front and behind have not clicked yet, they're a bit more subjective! You can also buy cards for these purposes or, as Tamum suggests, use favourite books if appropriate.
Interesting about the LSA, IMHO someone without experience is often better because they don't have preconceptions about what an autistic child should or shouldn't do and how to work with "them" rather than that individual child.
I've nicked some ideas from someone else (with their permission) about mainstream that I think are quite good: "Weigh up the pros and cons of any setting first. If the pros outweigh the cons, you then FADE IN your demands (ie softly, softly, catchy monkey!) while REINFORCING the school for ANY good stuff that they are doing; this is FAR better than the oft-used "All Guns Blazing" approach, which humiliates and therefore distances the school from you (and more importantly, your child). In behavioural terms, you are better "reinforcing" the school into better behaviour than trying to "punish" them into it, which never works. If your child gains socially but not academically you should cheer, since social interaction is typically more difficult to teach than academics, and is a far more important subset of skills in terms of a child's future."

Good points! I'm hoping that the outreach teacher will do the dirty work for me so I don't have to blaze any guns

I really need to work out the finer points of my digital camera don't I? But first.... More pecs are needed...... Maybe a weekend job. I like the idea of an in book and on book and an under book though.

that hoover is going to be busy...... lol

Thanks everyone- some great ideas.