Panorama - Learning Disability Hospital abuse

[BakeliteBelle]

I know it is on AIBU, but why no debate on here? Did anyone watch it?

I forced myself to watch it because one of the factors in abuse of people with learning disabilities is the fact that good people who care, stand by and do nothing because they can't bear to believe it is possible.

I cried watching it and feel so utterly distressed that as my DS reaches 18, I won't be able to care for him at home because he is too challenging, but I can't bear the thought of what might happen to him away from us...

Too, too distressing. I want those bastards to be done for torture and find out what it is to be hurt and bullied and stamped on themselves.

What the fuck are LA's funding learning disability hospitals for anyway? They were meant to have closed years ago - why on earth are private companies receiving funding to open new hospitals? It beggars belief.

I won't sleep tonight

mmm Vinnie Jones was probably unaware he was being offensive.. which does not make it right or acceptable of course. The lack of general shock at such a term indicates to me a widespread ignorance at how offensive a word it is.

Yes and there is no need for that ignorance today. Not too many years ago people didn't realise they were being offensive by using derogatory words against black people, asians etc...but with the race discrimination act (1966?) and its later amendments to include racism by association etc people were made aware of terminology.
However we have the disability discrimination act and so many amendments and yet people still do not realise thier choice of discriminatory remarks and words can cause offense.
I wonder why this is.
I'd guess because disability doesn't count!

Perhaps the disability discrimination act needs more 'teeth' as far as offensive language is concerned? Perhaps it has but is not followed through as it should be?
Making something legally unacceptable will hopefully in time make it socially unacceptable. Your 'race' example is a good one unpa1d.

I think you're right 2boys. Many people do say the disability descrimination act needs more ooomph. It's so long winded I don't have a clue really what it says about terminology etc but i bet it's in there somewhere, matter of finding it and using it I suppose!

Feeling a little buzz right now; just allowed for the 1st time ever my 2 terrors to walk 100 yds to chippie, with a note explaining what they wanted and the money...of course I was 10 yds behind hiding behind lampposts but... it's such a major achievement for them; the fact that they were actually brave enough to do it for starters!
Everyone knows my boys (small village) so I stood outside shop listening to the ladies chatting away to them and the boys talking back, it was magical, a real precious moment...:)

Oh that sounds great unpa1d. Enjoy the moment!

Unpaid..... good point. I seem to remember that jade's (so called) career was in tatters, following her carryings on.

Remember the Frankie Boyle/Jimmy Carr thread? I notice it hasn't done their careers any harm to base a large part of their act on disability and just how "hilarious" it can be to poke fun at those "less fortunate" than themselves. I say less fortunate but then, they are a pair of bigoted twats.

Spot on Wendi. I used to like frankie Boyle and one reason was cos I'd never heard him poke fun at those unable to defend themselves. Everything else was a free for all but that's ok if you are able to defend yourself (IMO)
Then he said thos ethings about Jordans son Harvey and now I've gone right off him, ugly skinny creep! There now, he can sue me for ugli'ism or weightism!!!

I would never watch Frankie Boyle or Jimmy Carr now because of 'jokes' about disability. The comments about Harvey were outrageous.
I would hope a lot of people have gone off them..

Never liked Jimmy Carr, find him arrogant and pompous and basically head up ar*e syndrome.
Love Lee Evans and Michael McIntyre...never heard them deflam Disabled people. If I did I'd go off them too I'm sure!

Yeah, back in the day, we all (rightly) got our knickers in a twist about Bernard Manning et al, and their racist/sexist/ageist jokes. But it's ok to "do" disability. Yep, that's really funny. And then we as a society wonder how on earth the staff at Winterbourne View (Panorama)could have got so much amusement out of cruel taunting and physical bullying of the vulnerable young people in their care. Sadly, it's the society we live in.

I still 'want blood' as far as those 'carers' go. When the story first broke re arrests one of the relatives of an arrested 'carer' said something like "she is not allowed to defend herself and there are two sides to every story". You what!!!!
It is scarey to think with viewing that awful footage that anyone could think there was a defence. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court.

11 arrested now.. Last 2 arrests Thursday evening. Sure you all aware anyway.

Thanks for the update 2 boys. Not heard anything where I am...seems to have disappeared off the news. Maybe cos I'm in Wales, although Bristol is not that far from Wales.
I'd like half hour in a room with them bast*rds; two sides my ar&e. Of course they'll be blaming the system, lack of support blahde blah but how on earth can the victims give their side of the story...this is what vile creatures like them play on, they know they can get away with it (well, until the programme anyway) as the victims cannot defend themselves and are often called liars anyway if they try to speak out.
My youngest DS comes home with all sorts of stories from school, some quite credible. I always check them out with his lovely teachers and more often than not it's been something minor (he told me he killed a fellow pupil once so was not allowed to go swimming! I said I thought that was a fair and just punishment considering lol) but when i contacted the school to see what this 'fight which ended in death' was about, they laughed their heads off cos nothing had happened, not even a scuffle. And DS couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag anyway.
But the point is, we could often dismiss his stories and one day he might be telling the truth (which is why i always check it out)...it's easy to see how these poor people weren't believed.

Thought this may be of interest, another article about people ignoring whistleblowers

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jun/03/panorama-care-home-abuse

Thanks Direlahere, watched it with resignation. It's all so true. Winterbourne is just the tip of a very big iceberg...
It's not about 'care', it's about profit. Even the social run places are the same (e.g. they get £300 per night for overnight respite for my boys, each!). How do they work this out when I get one lot of carers allw for both which works out at about £7.50 per day (£3.25 each)
Wouldn't it be interesting if Cameron and his cronies read pages like these, and others and read the horrific tales of abuse and neglect that our caree's and ourselves go through every day thanks to a system which stinks to high heaven of corruption and money grabbing amongst the highest echelons...

We as carers are abused in that we have to fight fight fight for every crumb and are forced to worry constantly about what's gonna happen next and after we've gone, to our loved ones, and to do it all on such a low benefit system, being classed as unemployed (unemployed, my arse), being vilified by society as scroungers when our caring role takes up all our time, and we cannot physically go out to paid employment, having our confidence taken, our belief that we are 'worth something' and not 'worth-less', having to live with little or no relationships, losing our friends due to our caring role...and on and on
Our carees are abused daily by being denied the things they need (nappies, wheelchairs, social activities, education, money, support workers, employment, decent treatment amongst medical staff and support workers in residential settings)...and on and on

We are all abused in so many ways and I don't see it ever changing. the only way to change things individually is to keep on fighting to be heard...but of course most of us are so worn down by all of the above we lose our energy and cannot fight the corrupt system we are forced to live under and are governed/controlled by...

Ok rant over for now

unpa1dcar3r I completely understand your rant, I agree with all you have said, caring is not a commodity to be brought and sold but that's exactly what appears to be happenning in terms of paid service provision whilst families are forced to accept their lot and I feel like I am constantly being punished for something, it's so unfair, nothing makes sense and I wish that those who have the power to change things had an ounce of understanding, sadly it appears that they don't.

Carers week appears to do little in the longerterm raising of awareness so what do we do?

For me it isn't the caring that takes the toll, it's the having to fight against the unjust way that carers are being treated but this message has been given to those in power for a number of years now and still there is little recognition for carers other than those few who are cherry picked and deemed deserving of support by Local Authorities whose stories are then shared to demonstrate how supportive LAs are........the dishonest betrayal of the majority of carers makes me want to be physically sick.

Meanwhile some paid carers behave as portrayed by Winterbourne the vulnerable who have probably been denied services to improve their lives and reduce their vulnerability as children are exposed to cruelty as adults.

Sorry folks, I haven't read all of this thread so my points may have already been made. I didn't watch the programme either and don't intend to.
I was very disappointed with the MenCap man on the Today Programme (R4) and also a response I saw from the CBF that both said quite simply "close down big institutions and move all disabled people into small homes in the local community with individual budgets" or words to that effect.
I have no problem with that as an option but I think we need CHOICE and we need bigger institutions but they should be good and they should be properly inspected and open to parents and carers. We should not be undermining the good institutions and making life harder for them, their residents and their families, we should be supporting and developing them as much as any of the potential provisions. The whole Individual Budgets policy is idealogically-led in my view and has not been tried and tested enough. Also, it can't possibly be the best solution for everyone. What happens when things go wrong, its all well and good when it works but we, the parents and carers, will be left to pick up the pieces, never mind my suspicions about how much day-to-day admin and shite we would really have to do. I'm sorry, but I don't want to do it no matter how much anyone wants to guilt me into it. IF POSSIBLE my DS needs to be in a small community of peers with staff working and overlapping in teams, in a nice rural setting with good facilities and access to outings, activities and meaningful leisure as well as meaningful vocational or educational opportunities and appropriate independence and daily living skills. We don't have to stop educating because someone reaches a certain age, just ask the OU or U3A about that. What the hell would my DS do if he were carted back to his "community" which has no meaning to him other than being the area where WE live, his real community is where HE lives and where he is happiest, most fulfilled and safe. Its not much to ask for our kids to be kept safe wherever they are ffs.

I agree Davros there do need to be options. I have personal concerns about hospital living and institutional living as a concept and as a reality it worries me. However, I know of good group homes and residential settings and I agree the 'reality' of how someone is living/ whether they are happy/ environment suits them etc should not be overlooked with idealogical waffling/ rail roading..
I do know of people who have been well supported in community settings/ their own homes but I don't think families should have to organise care unless they want to or feel able to.
If your son is happy and well supported in a happy homely environment then I understand your worry at that being messed about with. People should not be shuffled about if something is working well - if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Obviously what is 'broken' needs fixing like yesterday.
Vulnerable people need respectful and dignified support; that should be a right,not an ideal.

Davros you have so eloquently written my sentiments! I too want the same for my boys which is why i have been investigating the Camphill communities for yrs now...
The trouble is getting SS to pay for it. All the time they can say (and they say it seriously too!!) that they are providing local services which are adequate/suitable they can get out of paying for something better.
Now the local services here for young adults are...well the words crap/dire/rubbish etc come to mind but to be more specific...a couple of days a week at a local college learning computer skills or fixing bicycles, where lunchtimes are unsupervised and the kids get bullied terribly by other nasty students...I know this for fact because my girls went there and witnessed it (almost got in a few fights too having a go at these gits)
My young'un loves animals, he would like nowt better than to work with animals in a farm like environment. Older DS likes anything with wheels and watching telly! How can learning computer skills give them A) enjoyment B) prospects C) value?
If it comes to it I will move 350 miles to near a Camphill community. Our nearest is miles away anyway and I wouldn't want them at that particular one (it's city based and we want rural)
So once again we will have to up sticks, move from everyone and everything we and the boys know, quite possibly leave one daughter and son in law and my gorgeous grand daughter (who I adore with my heart) to better enable my boys to feel happy and cherished and valued outside the home!
That to me shows the inadequacy of local services certainly in my area and it's not so different elsewhere in most places

I don't want to sound naive - I do know that spouting on about respectful and dignified living does not make it happen. 'What works' for people needs to be explored and obviously there will be different needs to be met for different people.
Respect for what an individual wants/ needs should be the starting point though I think.

Unpa1dcar3r - if only ss would LISTEN to what families are saying. You know your son best.
Good luck with everything. Sorry for my inadequate babbling on.

Me again - local services can be crap too and need to be checked out/ scrutinised too. Not an 'ideal' if unsafe and inappropriate.

Just because something is large scale I guess does not make it by definition 'institutional' [hospital living aside].
Define 'institutional'?
People can get tied up with the concept of 'ordinary living' - but what is 'ordinary'?
I'm thinking aloud - someone shut me up!!

I just find the idea that we still have learning disability 'hospitals' and all that word implies, really shocking.

Bigger care homes are not necessarily bad IMO. A Supported Living flat for one resident could be as institutional as a large care home.

My dream - that we are able to live in the same 'complex' as our DS, along with other families with adults with LD. He will be in a purpose-built house with a peer group and carers, but with space to be alone. We will have our own gardens but also communal gardens - a safe space for those who need it, plus communually worked veg gardens, chickens etc - and a communal indoor space for weekly shared meals and socialising. We can all dip in and out of the mainstream community we are in, as much, or as little as we can manage. DS can come and be with us or stay with us regularly, but we can finally have a life where we are not caring round the clock. When we are old, care teams will care for us and will allow us to be with him still. This dream home will be in the same place we are now - the place DS was born and raised.

I agree totally Bakelite about shock that learning disability hospitals still exist.
As for your dream... it should be the starting point of any discussion about your son's future support [even if it has to be adapted]. Start with the dream...