Do you ever have a weird moment where you look at your child and SEE the autism?

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

When normally you don't really notice?

Cos it was my eldest's review the other day. And he is now in secondary school and at his school (don't know if it is the same everywhere) they have the child in the review and begin to encourage the child to take control of the review.

And I was looking at him as he went through a statement he had prepared about things he finds difficult, and his eye contact was non-existant and he had one arm in the air, making a pincer type movement with his fingers.

And I looked at him and I thought wow, you really look autistic.

And I hope I am explaining myself well

It was just a real jolt, you know?

Do you ever have it?

I always "see" it - i find it hard to switch off from it at the moment. Sometimes, when I have managed to switch off she does something which is glaringly ASD.
I find with my brother (24) that he quite often just does something so obscure all that the family can do is laugh - and there are many many examples. Even he sometimes says to us, "oh i'm doing it again aren't I ?".

Well leiela that is a bad joke , very groan worthy. indeed.

Oh wendihouse big ((((((hugs))))), the most obvious of of dd is putting stuff into her mouth like a baby, she is 4 and despite constant 'no don't put it into your mouth' its dangerous, she does'nt understand and still does it

Ninxy That was my son several years ago It used to take me about a week to cut his hair when he was asleep. We progressed from that to clippers where we would literally tie him up in a large jumper like a straightjacket and Dp would hold him down. Now he stands there ticcing until I have finished.

10 years to finally be able to cut his hair in peace.

Becaroo My mum blamed me for ages, it was because I didn't bf him, or maybe I just didn't love him as much as DD or he didn't talk because we ignored him. When I bring these up now she says it is because she just didn't know why he was autistic and struggled to cope with it.
Well we did too but we didn't point the blame at each other.

We tend to see the 'autism' in other children then realise 'DS does that'. We recently went on holiday with some other disabled families and one family said our DS's were so similiar, we spent hours saying 'our DS does that as well' It was so nice

90% of the time tbh

Seems it is the common thing, is it not?

My lads were diagnosed at 2.5 (ds1) and 3(ds2) they are now 10 and 11. Well, my eldest turns 12 tomorrow. Where did the time go?

And it's all so normal. People tell me they're noisy and I don't hear it. People tell me all sorts of ways in which they need to 'improve' (improve is sooooo not the right word!) and I see it but I don't see it, iyswim.

Until I see it.

it's a funny old world.

Triggles & Wendihouse

Hard not to notice ds's autism sometimes, especially to us - the occasional spinning round with sideways gaze is a bit of a giveaway at times.

But ds holds it together pretty well when not at home. I'm not always sure whether the outside world notices anything different, though he's only just 4yo so the differences might become more obvious as he gets older.

Though I wonder what the woman in the park thought the other day, when ds randomly asked her if her mummy was dead

Actually I meant 100% of the time :(

It's funny, Hecate, DS2 was DX at 3.6 and is 11.6 now, but he always looks autistic to me, everything about him. It's normal for him but it's so noticeable that I don't get that 'surprise.' He's completely oblivious so doesn't try to hide anything. Are your boys more self aware?

oh fanjo.

ellen - I dunno. My eldest talks quite well now. Bit oddly I suppose sometimes, like english isn't his first language. and he's very obsessive. He didn't talk more than the odd word till he was, what? 7? before he stopped talking like a toddler he was 9 ish. came out of nappies at 6, ds2 came out of nappies at 5. ds2 doesn't talk much as in communicating with you not a big fan of the two way chats but sooooo noisy until last few years, exclusively echolalic. now talking with communicative intent on his terms.

ds1 knows he has autism. ds2 hasn't got a clue and shows no sign he knows anything is wrong. he just is, iyswim. They're both really friendly and loving. But too trusting and naive. very in your face, no respecters of personal space not able to go anywhere without an adult, so on and so forth. ds1 used to be really violent but he isn't much any more. rarely, very rarely. ds2 almost never violent. although he did choose a few days after I was home from an operation to have a meltdown and hurl himself at me punching and kicking.

tbh, I'm not really a good judge, because this is all I know. I don't really know how children are 'supposed' to be. Most of the time they seem perfectly 'normal' (god I hate that word!) to me. Which is why I get a jolt when I see the pincer, or notice they're not making eye contact, or become aware of the funny way they are moving.

Actually, TotalChaos and Justabout met them the other week. They'd probably know better than me how they came across I don't think I see them how other people see them. I think you can't really tell. But then the 'experts' give me huge reports on all the ways in which they are different and need support.

I mean, my youngest's latest SALT report says his sentence structure is rather disordered and his body language and eye contact during conversation are not good and my eldest's senco report for his review said that he doesn't understand the subtlties of interaction which leads to anxiety for him, struggles to follow group interactions, is very vulnerable due to his trusting nature, has problems with noise etc etc

Not knowing any different makes it less difficult somehow. For me I mean. Not that it's about me or how I feel of course, but I think it must be easier than having a mix of nt and autistic children. I always think that must be hard.

Ah but sometimes there are moments when ds doesn't standout or look different!
But yes I know what you mean.

Well, no, maybe it's nothing to do with being self aware, then. I didn't know any background on your boys and was thinking that perhaps if DC are AS rather than ASD they may have strategies to 'fit in' so when they do something autistic it's in your face. My DS is gloriously unaware of himself and although we have talked to him about it he doesn't seem to be bothered. I think that makes it easier TBH. He's recently had an incident at school when some younger boys were taking the piss and he lashed out at them, which is worrying as he hasn't had anything like that happen before that he's noticed. He's starting MS secondary in Sept so he's bound to get lots more teasing and worse, so it's just the wrong time for him to become sensitive.

I've got 3 boys, DS1 is NT and DS3 is just quirky, so maybe that's why DS2 stands out more to us. We don't get any conversations from him, either. It will be interesting at his next review, the first one at secondary. We had his annual review yesterday, when asked what he likes about school he said 'hometime' and what would make school better he said 'if it was 3 hours rather than 6!'

Usually DS just looks like an ordinary (albeit extremely handsome ) little boy and that's where we get problems because he will appear to be simply naughty, demanding, coddled, spoilt, you name it.

The first request he ever made at the advanced age of three was for food.

Yes, food - his nemesis. He demanded cake in a supermarket! DH and I fell over ourselves to reward him by opening the box (being careful of bar-code) and letting him have a mini-cake there and then cue disapproving glances from other shoppers who were probably wondering why we were giving in so easily. But to us it was a natural and appropriate response to a fantastic event.

Hee hee, at unwashed grapes! MN classic.

"gloriously unaware" I bloody love that. That is my youngest. That describes him perfectly.

Of the two of them, I think he is happier. My eldest knows a bit that he is different and sometimes it upsets him.

ninxy.

I know what you mean though, when mine started talking and asking for things I was so thrilled I'd have given them anything.

I'm going straight to hell for this, but now sometimes I miss the non-verbal days.

He really does like grapes but I buy them separately from the M&S garage when he is at pre-school

I miss the non-verbal days too sometimes especially when, "more Octonauts! more Octonauts! a diff'rent one!" has been screeched for the hundredth time in an hour

oh god, I am so glad it is not just me!

When your children didn't talk for YEARS ... and then it was toddler talk and echolalia and they still have speech therapy and you really are grateful they do finally talk and all that but you still remember the days when they were mute in the back of the car when you have had 18 hours of listening to one of them talk about mario and the other one whinnying like a horse and you remember that silence and you think - just five minutes of that would be lovely right now.

Nope, not just you

Mario...

I suppose it's because the speech is great and you celebrate it but it isn't chatting. I have an older DD and when she was DS' age she'd be able to tell me about her day, her likes and dislikes, what she was thinking about, worried about and she'd ask questions and be interested in my replies.

Then again now that she is eleven I get none of that any more and it'll get worse over the next few years no doubt.

DS1 was very delayed in his speech as well as DS2 so they used to be silent in the back of the car, friends with NT girls couldn't believe it. I used to play with them in the garden and feel really self conscious talking to them both and getting no reply! Now it's all Runescape or Minecraft from DS1, Final Fantasy from DS2 and Mario from DS3.

Friends used to complain that my boys didn't say please or thank you. I was just pleased they asked for anything, and ps and qs were optional extras.

Yes, walking around Tesco's, with everyone staring at the 6 year old lying on the ground refusing to get up, me having to stand him in the trolley with his baby sister sitting in the seat.
As he gets older it is more obvious. He refuses to enter certain buildings for seemingly no reason, but I know it is because a stranger held the door open expecting a 'thankyou' from my son.
He mouths everything, jumps up and down with excitement, has huge meltdowns, seems to stare at nothing intently, is obsessed with car wheels,
and still wears nappies....

Find it a bit insensitive of people to write about missing the non verbal days when we are struggling to get dd (4.7) to speak at all, she is frustrated and might never be able to speak, tbh, it's tragic and not really a subject for humour.

I'd expect people who had been through it to have a bit more empathy

I mean the non verbal days for us aren't filled with lively silence but frustrated yelling, maybe that is forgotten once child starts speaking (I hope so, on the off chance DD ever does speak). Anyway, in case anyone thinks I am just being touchy, these posts made me actually cry.

*lovely silence

I think that every developmental stage, for every child, is challenging in it's own way. There is always a part of you that wishes it were different so it would pass and things would be more 'normal'. When they are non-verbal, you would walk over hot coals for a demand for a pink unicorn wearing a tutu and go mad trying to find one to reward and encourage the speech. When they are incessantly more verbal, you would do anything for a brief reprieve from the constant chuntering. The grass is always greener and all that.

DS1 (11) has AS and ADHD and his tics and mannerisms have changed recently, to the extent that I pine for the days of him just 'hutting' when he concentrated on a tv show as now he constantly questions things, then gets upset that he has missed what happened next because he was asking something or I was replying. When I am getting my third headache of the day from trying to concentrate on listening to him, formulating a reply that I know he will 'get' and keeping up with what is happening on the show all at the same time, I do miss those intermittent noises.

I had managed to convince myself that he wasn't especially severe and that we could manage his AS the same way we have managed the ADHD, by developing coping strategies well enough that people outside our circle don't seem to realise he has it, but lately I do catch myself watching him and just think "fuck, he really is different isn't he?"

I think it may be because now he is exhibiting more 'classic' signs and symptoms like hand flapping and pacing that it is more apparent to me.