Could my DD's possible ASD really be my fault?

[Floopytheloopy]

Hi all

This question has always been in the back of my mind, but i've had to keep it there as it messes with my head too much. However i've just finished reading sleepyhorses thread and it's brought up the issue again.

I think that the general consensus was that it was a combination of genes and early experiences.

My DP and I are in quite an unusual situation, which I wont go into, but it's basically meant that weve been rather isolated. This obviously had a huge knock on affect to dd's socialising. I have made it no secret in the past that dd hasn't mixed enough and she did start pre school a little later than average. I suffered quite badly with depression, although it's not an excuse, I think it's important to make that clear. When her symptoms started to show clearly at 2.6 it almost turned into a catch 22 situation, in the sense that I assumed her social skills would improve the more she socialised, but to get to that point I had to go through all the tantrums, stares and pointing. Because I was in such a bad place when all this was happening, I would sometimes avoid certain places, such as parks and busy shops etc. Please don't think she was temporarily locked away, she still got out alot, but I know it should have been more.

If it's part genetic then it's hardwired. If it's part environment does that mean that it's also eventually hardwired. Is it a case of what's done is done? Is this really partly mt fault?

she wasn't isolated, she socialized with you and her dad...babies don't need other babies to learn social skills, they don't have any anyway, lol (and a 2 yr old is still a baby in that respect)

I know beyond a doubt that my DS was born with Asperger's, there are things he did as a newborn that he still does now, he's never changed - there is never a point where I could say, yep that's before he was like that

I take environmental triggers to be actual things, ie, substance in the environment, not what the environment was like socially

so on both counts, nope I don't think it's your fault

Not your fault. No way.

Social skills (or lack of) is only 1 of 3 things needed for a dx of ASD.

Hi Floopy

My dd is 3.2 and was diagnosed a couple of months ago with autism. I saw that thread and had the same thought.

The truth is that all along a part of me has worried that it was me. I half expected the pead to say 'she hasn't got autism, she's got bad parenting' like you, I didn't do socialising. I used to go though every error or slight i had made and wonder if that had caused it.

I think as parents we are programmed to feel guilty about EVERYTHING, and autism is a nice big stick to beat ourselves with. Plus there is so much ignorance about the condition.

Now when I hear that voice of doubt i mentally smash it down!! She's my daughter, I love her and always have and will. Tying my self up in knots with guilt isn't going to help her, or me.

I hope YSWIM and this doesn't read too rambly

Be kind to yourself

Well. If we cause autism in our children, I wonder how I managed to 'make' one with very severe autism and two who are very sociable, bright, nt children.

Of course 'we' don't cause it.

Ds2 is 14. Can I pass on one piece of very good advice?

Guilt is understandable, of course it is. We have all done it.I did it, oh yes indeed I did.

But it is a total waste of our energy and helps our children Not One Jot. Worse, it makes things harder because our wintering and guilt and blame and what ifs take our energy away and just give our already struggling children a miserable parent.

nope, not your fault at all.plenty of kids don't go to toddler group/preschool etc (look at how many of us were brought up in 70s!) with no detriment to their social/language skills. and as tabularasa says, under 3 in particularly, so much of the learning they do is from family members/carers anyway rather than other children.

'But it is a total waste of our energy and helps our children Not One Jot. Worse, it makes things harder because our wintering and guilt and blame and what ifs take our energy away and just give our already struggling children a miserable parent.'

Well said. Truth is, we all damage our children. If you don't believe me think about some of the ways that your parents damanged you. Generally, parents don't do it on purpose and usually they are trying their best for us. But still, all children don't have autism do they?

And no, there is nothing hardwired in the brain. The brain hardens over time and fixed things become harder to shift, but it is never impossible to do it. Use your energy to rationalise things thinking about your plans and interventions and opportunities for the future, don't waste time and thoughs and emotions looking over your shoulder at the past.

Just read this thread and it's given me a lot of help I have been dwelling a lot resently.

Thanks xxxxx

Hi Floopy. No, nothing you did, definitely not. By unknown environmental factors I mean 20th and 21st century living. Is it TVs, or microwaves or petrol fumes or coca cola or something? Those are just picked at random because no-one knows. There's a genetic link in many cases, but some DC don't even appear to have that. The old 'refrigerator mother' theory of the 60's has been thoroughly disproved. My DS2 was quite different from very early on to my DS1. Nothing much I did differently! Don't torture yourself with that worry, please.

Thanks for all your help.

I didn't really think of environmental as in substances etc.

I know it's part of a parents job to blame yourself, but i've had several family members say things like "she hasn't mixed enough. That's why she's behind with her social skills and her speech". I have always felt like they were indirectly pointing the finger.

I know that it would be incredibly beneficial if she mixed outside of school, but again i'm finding myself in a catch 22 situation. Because of her "odd" behaviour, she hasn't really been able to make a friend. I can't force a dc to be friends with her. As i've mentioned before, none of my friends have children and I feel very isolated from the mums at the school gate who seemed to have planned it all perfectly. By that I mean they're all the same kind of age, they've been going round for coffee's at each others houses as soon as they found out they were pregnant. This may come across as jealous or bitter and that's because I am. I know this isnt about me, it's about my dd, but just as much as she can't force a friendship, neither can I. I'm always friendly. I'll smile and say hello, how are things etc, but that's where it ends because i'm not part of the group.

I know i've gone off the subject slightly, but suppose I was just wondering if anyone had any tips on how to get round this situation. It can't go on like this. She misses out on so much already. It would just be nice to hear that i'm not the only one in this situation.

homeboys very good point.

zzzzz Dd is 4.5 by the way. All those things you mentioned me getting involved in just made my tummy flip. I don't know what it is. I've been like this as a child. Most people who meet me wouldn't think it. I have friends, but I choose them carefully. The friends I do have are brilliant and I can talk to them about all this, but they never really understand what it feels like because as I mentioned before, none of them have kids.

I knew that I certainly wasn't the only one feeling isolated and I understand that so many of you are probably going through worse than I am, but it's a big school that my dd goes to and we both stick out like sore thumbs but for completely different reasons.

When I took dd to school this morning she was much bouncier than usual and she pointed out this girl who she said was her best friend(she isn't)and was so excited to see her. She kept saying hello but this girl just looked her her like she was mental and then her mum just moved her dd out the way and tutted in our direction. I wanted to say "it's ok, you can say hello too" Of course this girl is only 4 and she's responding in a normal way, but it makes me so sad to notice how much she is being ignored. Some days it's not so bad, but today was horrible.

Thanks for your advice though.

Oh Floopy, what a difficult situation for you. Whereabouts in the country are you? In your situation I would start very small - is there one mum that you could make contact with - or one child that DD could play with, perhaps in an outside situation, like the park? Would a Parents Support Group be your idea of hell?

I empathise with your guilt btw - I had undiagnosed PND when DS2 was small, which meant that I didnt interact with him as much, or as positively, as I did with his older brother. I have spent many an hour wondering if something I did contributed to the severity of his autism (DS1 has dyspraxia and Aspergers traits, but mildly). But a counsellor pointed out to me that it may well have been that DS2 didnt demand the same kind of attention as an NT child - or respond in the same way - and that this will have impacted on my responses to him. He socialised with other children frequently, but it made not one jot of difference - he completely ignored his peers until he was about 6! (hes 8.5 now).

sphil The idea of a park is my idea of hell most days. When we took her when she was 2 it used to turn into a nightmare bringing her home. It was awful to see all these children push her away because she was so in their face. She would literally just bounce to the next child and again, be rebuffed. When it was time to come home, which to be fair was usually shortly after arriving it would involve yet more unwanted attention towards us. Screaming, hitting, kicking, tossing herself around. We never used to just walk down to the park because we knew this would always happen. We needed to literally strap her in, so the car was a must.

Just picked her up and she says that nobody wanted to play with her again. Her exact words were "no boys or girls liked me again today. Nobody likes me again mummy". She'll be over it very quickly though, which is why the school aren't pushing or encouraging it more. I asked the school why they thought she wasn't really making any real friendships and they just said that she was happy playing by herself most of the time. It's rubbish!! She has just accepted that most childdren don't want to play with her. She just gives up and because she has such a vivid almost constant fantasy style imagination she may appear unharmed by the constant knock backs.

I feel like i'm in a nightmare I don't know how to wake up from. I seem to be crying all the bloody time. I feel so pathetic and useless.

Where in the country are you?

Nottingham.

Floopy, your DDs ASD is not your fault, but socialising is good for children (and their mums). You say you have no friends with children - I think a lot of mums make friends when they go to antenatal classes; in the hospital when they have their children and later in playgroups, i.e. they make new friends around or at the time of having children. Unless you live in a very rural location, maybe both you and your DD could have made friends in a playgroup?

I also think that going to children's events and even to the park is important for a child. Socialising is a skill that you learn by trial and error, i.e. you pour sand on another child's head from a bucket and that child won't want to play with you any more, so you deduct that this is how things are. If you did not take DD to socialise between 2-4 she missed out on some of this. Nothing irrecoverable, she is still so young, but she will only catch up if she is with other children.

Finally, not all behaviour is down to ASD, i.e. some children with ASD are well behaved and others aren't. Some of the behaviour you describe in the park strikes me as something all children try - and need to be discouraged from.

Would your DD respond to a simple social story? Ds1 had some problems socialising when he was your DDs age and I wrote a story for him which almost gave him a 'script' in different situations. I can go into more detail if you think it would be appropriate for your DD. it does sound as if the school could be doing more tbh - do they have much experience with ASD?

Impaired social skills are the symptoms of ASD, not the cause.

LA's like the myth that all you have to do is take a child who is struggling socially and plonk them in the middle of a class of kids and that will sort them out........er, not so.

Physical integration is not the same as social or educational integration. For that you need a plan and targetted intervention. Even if your child had attended playgroups in abundance, neither she or you would have known what to do until you had a clue about her problems. She would not have learned any social skills.

No not your fault at all, my dd was pretty isolated, she was an only at that point, no cousins, close friends. I didn't do toddler groups because I was a bit anxious/shy. However she is very sociable, within 5 minutes of being at the park today she had gathered a group of boys and was leading them about on jewel hunts . I take 0% credit/blame for her innate personality, she has been her from day 1, she is nothing like me at all.

I had 2 boys after her and they are all different, have been from day 1. I have only started toddler groups with ds2 as I have grown to the point where I can stick up 2 mental fingers to any judgy uptights.

Please don't blame yourself, as long as she had much love/social interaction from you, that's the important thing. I think the socialisation thing is slightly overrated tbh, until 3 or 4 children are not that bothered about playing with other children.