What would you call a parent support group that wanted to focus on outcomes and accountability?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Any ideas?

'I think a lot of people glaze over when they hear phrases like "evidence-based practice", as it sounds like HARD WORK. And part of the "art of the possible" is making the state see that ABA is within their reach, that it does not mean every single SEN teacher has to take a PhD in some complicated science.'

Very true. This is a big part of my work-making people in my profession see thry can get tighter and more accountable quite easily and that ultimately it benefits them by making them more professiona, effective and pleased with their own hard work.

Also important to be charming and not openly slag off what is happening. Most people really don't know any better through no fault of their own and being told your hard work counts for nothing, gets even the most saintly extremely defensive.

A crib sheet of questions to ask an LEA rep would be good. Trouble is, people are in shock when their kids are flagged up as having problems and the clock
is ticking. There are so many parents i want to scream 'WAKE UUUUUUUP!!!!' at, but I can't.It's not my job to do that. They have to instigate it themselves but God it is frustrating, watchnig from the sidelines.

Parents forget how much power they really have.Honestly, LEAs and PCTs crap themselves whhen someone gets bolshy, whatever it looks like from the other side.

I rather like Measure Up.

well, yes.

but there are always going ot be parents who are on the edges of the system, iyswim.

if (and what an almighty IF) SN schools (and actually, schools in general, but lets start smaller ) were turned around, and approached everyhitng form a proper behavioural stance, rather than the watered down "I know someone who spoke ot someone who's sister has been on a PECS course" - and I mean everyhitng: dd1's schooling could not be fuller, and more rounded. she is out in the community every day, whether at a MS school, swimming, horse riding, volunteer-gardening etc, as well as all her academeic stuff - well, then it doesnt have to involve the parents, iyswim? a sort of opposite to one of your posts on the other thread, which boiled down to: even if you ABA at home, then what about all those school hours? instead, you would have parents following whatever they wanted to at home, and ABA in school (much like a lot of modern parenting - the discipline and effective teaching (hah!) would be at school, while at home, it is up to the parents what they want ot do)

and parents can always opt out.

TEACCH is certainlynot for everyone, but there is nothing else on offer (unless you go private or home school). free-flow child led learning thorugh ply is certainly not for every child (or parent) but again, it is all that is on offer across the nation's pre-schools because of EYFS.

EYFS is the work of the devil.
Encaspulates everything that has gone wrong with pedagoy and the insanity of child led learning.

a large part of our US time was spent talking about how we can get dd2 thorugh EYFS unscathed - because she already thinks the world revolves around her, and can continue to do so for the next 2 years nearly, and then the rug will be pulle dout smart-ish and she will be expected to toe the line.

bloody stupid idea.

and all I get when I go to pick her up is yet more tales of how she is the only one doign X activity, or the only one who asked ot do Y - but because she asks nicely (she is a right little charmer), and loves having her key worker to herself - it is win-win for her.

Until the end of EYFS, when she will get a rude awakeing, be unable to comprehend the sudden change, and end up being labelled a problem child.

well, not if I can help it.

But in education they don't LISTEN, because many behavioural analysts are not qualified teachers (possibly a good thing?).

My mum came to a meeting with me with the Autism service and thought it was 'fair' not necessary, to let them know that she was a qualified teacher. My God, then next 15 minutes was a direct and antagonistic quizing of where she qualified, where she worked to satisfy themselves that she was indeed a 'teacher' in terms of how THEY defined teachers.

Not that they listened to her mind, in the end anyway.

Anyway, the EYFS says that CIL (Child Initiated Learning) should be monitored by the teacher to ensure that it is at an appropriate level for that child.

But the alternative to CIL, is no tea break for the TAs, or no prep time for the teacher for the next structured activity.

I htink, Starlight, that they don't appear to listen - they do listen, and they (ultimately) do know that ABA works.

you would never get an LEA settling a case beofre tribunal (and they do - lots of them) if htey actually had a solid case educationally.

settlign before tribunal is another way of trying to sweep it all under the carpet - hopefully the parents will be so happy they got what they wanted they will bugger off and not muddy the waters. and of course, no actual direciton against the LA.

the whole system currently is like the little dutch boy with his finger in the dam - except it isn't just one small hole - it is hundreds and hundreds, and the cracks are beginning to show. the whole lot will explode at some point - it can't not.

The cracks are indeed beginning to show and many LEAs/PCTs are waking up to this. I am actrively encouraged and supported to do the thnigs i do and increase acconutability and improve outcomes.

I think forums like this have a masdsive part to play.
MN Special Needs section is worth its weight in gold for the way it helps parents navigating their way through this.

but you are assuning that the teacher knows what is an appropriate level for the child - there's not much child development stuff in techer training (there wan't when I did it, anyway) - it's all watered down directives.

so, eg, my dd2 is a dream chid at school - small, cute, polite, enthusiastic.

her teacher looks at her, and sees a child asking very nicely to do whatever she wants to do, and nicely managing everyone around her to get the result she wants (that bit is unseen). she doens't see that dd2 will not just adapt when the system changes, because she cannot see that dd2 doig everything exactly the way she wants to is as bad as dd1 doing exactly what she wants to - with dd1 it is called "working to her own agenda" and must be stamped out. with dd2 it is called "taking the initiative" or "learning to ask for what she wants" or "exploring the world at her own pace" and is all part of her "learning journey". ffs.

I'm not so sure silverfrog. Our LA have a (god forbid) WRITTEN policy that they will never settle for ABA prior to tribunal. Why in god's name the judge at ours didn't tick them off for that when I presented it in our evidence, I have no idea.

It is because they do these things and get away with it that is the problem. The accountability isn't there through the channels that are supposed to regulate it. That is why tribunals aren't the answer, just general parental empowerment is, IMO.

But how do you as a group of parents ask for ABA because it works? How do you present the honey to a group of professionals that have ample access to chocolate?

And ultimately none of what ABA is about contravenes any general guidelines. on the contrary, it fits in beautifully with all the papers that are being spewed out at teachers and NHS workers on increasing accountability and having SMART targets.

I've written lots on this for my PCT, dovetailing principles of ABA with professional guidelines, white and green papers, professional codes of practice and so on. They all fit together like a dream.

Some people may be sticking their fingers in their ears and going 'Lalalala can't hear you. They are going to have a rude awakening'

I'd like to see that policy and get it looked over by a lawyer and a behaviour analyst.
FFS

Sorry, I don't have the policy. I have THEIR reference to it in a letter to me when I asked them in writing WHAT they would need to convince them to fund ABA for my ds.

The wrote back that the only thing that would convince them is a tribunal ruling, which is in line with their policy.

the tide is defintiey turning.

slowly. very, very slowly.

but it is turning.

when I first started researching ABA for dd1 - over 4 years ago now - there were precious few schools to choose form.

we debated moving back to London to try for treehouse, as our choices were really narrow.

now, there are 6 I could name, off the top of my head, that dd1 could theoretically attend - and that is just in my corner of the country (although admittedly across 3 counties, as we are at a multiple county border), and without including London, where there are several more.

these schools could not exist without funded cases. dd1's school could not exist without dd1 and another pupil - who is also fully funded by their LA, with no argument at all, as dd1's school was the only school that the La could find to take on that pupil.

the more often that LAs actively choose to use ABA schools, the wealer their argument becomes that it is not effective, desirable, or a viable option for parents - the more they try to argue black is white, the weaker their position becomes.

it will still take time, but agree with moondog - parent power is where it is at.

Reember also (as we have discussed at length Sickof) how these same LEAs are often paying about three grand a week (52 weeks a year) for kids with ASD who can't be managed safely in the SEN world of sensory rooms and outings and aromatherapy. Noone quibbles that one. It's cough up or be sued by severely injured staff members.

LOL< and that is why I am here exploring names for parent network groups and a possible underlying rationale.

It doesn't really have to be what I believe and want, as parent power needs group-think to be effective.

Sorry, forgot to add that those are for out of county placements.
That's another useful piecve of info to get with FOI.

How many out of county placements do you fund?

The people who run/own these places are making a fortune for what is essntially a benign zoo.

Yes Silver.
You create a pattern.
Log what is happening everywhere. Flagh up good models with concrete outcomes and say to LEAs 'Why are you not offering what X LEA offers?'
What happened to parity of service?

When their colleagues elsewhere are raving about ABA then they suddenly look rather foolish and old fahioned.

(God ,I would bloody love to come with you lot to your meetings with SALTs and LEAs!)

Moondog, they don't see it like that. I'm sorry but they don't,

They see out of county as expensive, so then the get consultants in and do feasibility studies of feasibility studies to 'make provision local'. Then they get in expensive lawyers to fight against any new parents wanting out of county, and they include ABA in that. A home ABA programme, is defined by most LA's as 'out of county' provision, and they now have targets to justify their spending on consultants plus internal secondments for the project etc etc. and the pending promotion of the person who saves the LA from yet another child attending out of county.

Yes, they want those out of county places reduced, but their answer is not to provide quality intervention in their own borders, simply increase spending on strategies to get round it, - at least in my county.

I don't suppose any one of us has anything other than an open invitation for you to attend our meetings with us Moondog.

But parents need to have the skills to attend these meetings themselves and that is what I would hope a group would support.

There are a few key skills that parents need. Logging. Following up in writing. Basic skills of critical appraisal. Not much that couldn't be passed on easily. Pretty much the bread and butter of the MN board.

I don't actually thing home based ABA provision will ever be publically funded and that isn't the thrust Ii take. (I do of course understand why parents want a home based programme in absence of useful school based provision of course.)
I personally want kids in schools, in one place with the same staff all week, so that proper work can be done. I don't agree with split placements either. they don't work unless you have watertight communication between two settings (very rare).

I say this as a professional and a parent.

I think the best strategies for getting ABA accepted by public sector providers are to

a. Show that it works for all kids, not just kids with ASD

b. Show that it needs be no more expensive nor involve flashy outsiders. Just train up the (scores of) staff you already have.

Wish I hadn't thrown away my Early Support pack now. Instead of the key worker giving one to the parents, parents can give one to the professionals.

I'm a 'Measure Up! parent and am working from the 'Measure Up! support pack. I vow to take an interest in my child's education and development and will support the work of all professionals. However, I will require all your visits, intervention and strategies to be logged here in order that I can do the homework you require of me, monitor the intervention and keep a general level of coherence for our family and my child!

Yes!
What WE want from you and expect you to do!!

Oh don't get me wrong, - that Early Support Pack needed to go in the bin, but I could have adapted it. (in 2 years not one single professional has even looked at it, despite me being told over and over by EP to fill it in)

Actually I could probably get hold of another one and make better inserts.

This is a great idea and I think 'Measure up' is a good name.

Other broader, 'campaigney' ideas might be 'SEN Watch' or 'SEN Monitor' or 'Target SEN'.

Or more high-brow..the Centre for Evidence based intervention

Just thinking outloud!