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Original poster

Arrrgggghhhh! NHS direct questions

36 replies

Triggles · 08/04/2011 15:59

Called NHS direct as DS2 is quite ill. They really weren't helpful at all. They have their specific questions, and no variation of either "yes" or "no" is accepted at all. Some questions about DS2's pain reactions and coherency and such, as well as things like "does he have a headache" "does he have joint pain" were a "I honestly don't know." He doesn't generally offer the information if he hurts anywhere specific, and if you ask, he will either completely deny it because he is worried he might have to take medicine (which he hates and fights) or will say yes because he thinks you want him to say yes. sigh.

When I told her that I didn't know, she just kept asking the question. Finally she said "well, I'd think you'd know if something was REALLY wrong with him." Well, that would be why I called......

I finally gave up. I'll just watch him closely and take him in to A&E if needed. He saw the nurse practitioner in the surgery earlier today, but he's gotten slightly worse, and they rather poo poo'd it as "I'm sure it's just a fever, maybe a virus...." and bumped up his asthma meds.

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wfrances · 08/04/2011 16:22

how old is he?

Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 16:33

He's 4yo. At the time I called them, he was feverish (gone up to 39.0 from 38.1 after taking calpol), lethargic (nodding off constantly), refusing food/drink, very warm skin with cold hand and feet, very shaky, breathing a bit fast, coughing (ashtma) and just really "off" his usual self. I know some of those symptoms are also meningitis symptoms, so obviously concerned. I just wanted clearance to take him in to the out of hours doctors (which in our area is right next to the A&E at the hospital, so very close is he went downhill quickly), as I wanted to double check his condition. I didn't want to take him back to the surgery, as they were rather dismissive. And I didn't want to tie up A&E either.

He seems to be slightly less lethargic right now and is sitting up, although his temp is still up and he's still quite tired. I'll just keep watching him and checking him regularly, and if needed I'll just go straight to A&E.

It was just frustrating that she got all snotty about not being able to specifically answer yes or no - as I wasn't really sure. And then when I said he reacted differently to pain than many children as he didn't generally offer information, even if he was hurting, and sometimes has difficulty saying where it is, she said "so you're saying if he broke his leg, he wouldn't cry?" No, didn't say that... grrrrr... but he doesn't really communicate well and is never very clear when he is ill about exactly what is wrong. It's like playing 20 questions, and I'm STILL never sure I'm getting real answers or just whatever he wants to say just picked out of the sky, if that makes sense.

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Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 16:35

sorry, typo... very close if he went downhill quickly....

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Lancelottie · 08/04/2011 16:37

Look, I'd just GO to A&E. They really, really don't mind seeing children who don't after all have meningitis, appendicitis or a broken leg. And I'd go now, before the Friday night drunks can start rolling in.

wfrances · 08/04/2011 16:39

i live by the moto mother knows best
get him seen again ,its prob viral,
my ds has spent many a night in hospital because of viruses
dehydration and rapid heartbeat one of the reasons

Lancelottie · 08/04/2011 16:41

That's speaking as parent who has twice turned up with 'I'm sure it's nothing, but her arm's a bit sore' (and come out with a child in plaster) and once with 'I'm sure it's nothing, but she still has a stomach ache' (and come out three days later with appendix-less child), but also turned up at least that many times to be told, 'Yes, s/he's fine, but you were right to check it out.'

If you go and it's just a virus, fine -- you'll both be back home and can sleep that bit easier.

Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 16:46

We're going to attempt to get him to eat something first, and then look at taking him in. His temp is 39.1 at the moment, but he is at least sitting up and relatively alert now, which he wasn't earlier when I called them. He had calpol at 2:30 so a bit longer to go before the "great medicine battle" commences again.....

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Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 16:49

While they are working from a script, I just don't understand how it can be so cut and dried when speaking to a nurse. Surely I'm not the only one that can't always answer yes or no.......

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wfrances · 08/04/2011 16:50

you prob find he will get worse around 7ish when the temp starts to drop.

get some more calpol in by then
what about ice lollies,jelly,yogurt??
fluids are a must
is he still weeing?
my little lad stopped output for over 24hrs thats why he was admitted last time.

wfrances · 08/04/2011 16:55

nhs adviser was prob hot and bothered,and it is a friday afternoon.
other than that no idea for her attitude.
,ive spoken to them quite a bit and have never had any problems like that.

Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 16:56

wfrances thank you for the reminder - just took him in to wee (he hadn't gone since before lunch when we picked him up from school), and still trying to get him to drink. he won't touch ice lollies, jelly, or yogurt. but he will take occasional sips of water, we'll just keep pushing that.

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Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 16:58

they've usually been pretty calm and helpful when I've called before. Not sure why this one was so rigid about the questions and so snotty about it. Obviously having a bad day. But so frustrating when I'm already dealing with a 1yo who is all over the place, and a 4yo that's ill.

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growlybear · 08/04/2011 17:47

do you have a fan if so put it at the other end of the room from ds apparently that it better so its not a shock to the skin.

Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 18:54

yes, he's laying down on the sofa right now, as our living room is much cooler than the rest of the house (has ceiling fan), and we can keep an eye on him for a bit this evening... he has eaten a very small amount, but drank a little orange juice and we're having him take regular sips of water...

I think his whole system is just off... his asthma is all wonky as well.... managed to get temp under 39 (not by much, but under is better than over)..

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EllenJane1 · 08/04/2011 19:18

Just seen this Triggles. Trouble is they just don't know how to tell you if they're feeling crap, and don't always realise it themselves. If temp is about 39 even with calpol I'd take him to the out of hours people. Can you ring your surgery direct? They usually have an out of hours no. to ring and they get a doc. to ring you back. If you push it they'll always see a child. Otherwise how is he with ibuprofen? You can give it 3 times a day in addition to Calpol, to help get that temp down.

sneezecakesmum · 08/04/2011 19:46

If he's an asthma type child poor triggles has probably been advised not to give brufen.

Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 20:05

actually, we've never been told to give him ibuprofen - nor were we ever told that with DD who is also asthmatic.... is this something new?

We did give him some children's nurofen (in his orange juice) in addition to the calpol we gave him earlier. It's the only reason his temp has gone done somewhat. He is at least sleeping now, and not coughing finally (after another few puffs of ventolin). It's the second time today he's needed it, so I can see why they wanted to bump up the maintenance doses.

ellenjane yes, that's it - that's exactly what I was trying to explain to the person at NHS direct - that I couldn't really say whether or not certain things were present or not as he couldn't answer the questions as he just didn't get what we were asking - or he simply was too distressed to focus on it. Because he's sleeping now, and his temp has just finally gone under 38, we will monitor him at home for a bit longer. I don't want to wake him up at this point unless I have to, as when he is awake, he (even when very very ill) tries to continuously talk, which makes him cough, then his chest hurts, and so on until he starts wheezing and needs his inhaler. He's still here on the sofa next to me, so I can keep a close eye on him.

Thank you. I'm obviously glad that at this point it doesn't seem like it's serious. You can never be too careful, though, can you?

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Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 20:08

argh... typo again..... we've never been told NOT to give him ibuprofen

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EllenJane1 · 08/04/2011 20:16

That's what I meant when I said how is he with ibuprofen. My DS is asthmatic and we have been advised against using it. Should have been more explicit, sorry. I only found out with DS3 that you could alternate nurofen and calpol every 2 hours to bring high temps down. You don't want to be getting to a febrile convulsion. Sounds like he's a bit better. Another sleepless night for you, then! Don't envy you. Just in time for Easter hols, too.

wfrances · 08/04/2011 20:23

i second that ,my dd has asthma
been told not to use ibuprofen .

Original poster

Triggles · 08/04/2011 21:41

isn't that odd... wonder how long this ibuprofen/asthma thing has been around... DD is 24 and never in all the time growing up have they ever mentioned it... and she had pretty severe asthma as well.

thank you again for pointing it out... I will keep an eye on it...

ellenjane DS2 is a dab hand at running a high fever and holding it on to it forever and then some... LOL ... so we've been doing the nurofen/calpol thing when needed for the last couple years.

DH stayed home from work tonight so that if DS2 gets worse, I can take him in without dragging in DS3 as well. And it's nice so that we can alternate sleep a bit if needed as well.

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moosemama · 08/04/2011 23:27

Hope he feels better soon - and you all manage to get some sleep.

EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog · 09/04/2011 00:12

I've just seen this - I don't know if you're still reading but please please keep an eye out for the other meningitis symptoms - for example limp limbs and a stiff neck, plus dislike of bright lights and vomiting. And be prepared to go to A&E if you see any of those symptoms.

There are lots of reasons your son could have those symptoms of course - meningitis is not the only one. It's just that it's so incredibly fast in overwhelming the body that it requires prompt attention.

My DD2 (now 14 months) had meningitis in February - it started with the same symptoms that you describe, but deteriorated really quickly - 14 hours from the first high fever to critical. Luckily we got to the hospital reasonably early, and the classic symptoms appeared once she was already in A&E. She never got the rash, just a couple of tiny pinprick marks around her body.

She is now fully recovered thank goodness :) and the hospital was excellent.

Don't panic yet please - but just keep an eye out! Hope your DS feels better soon, and hope you get some sleep :)

hanaka88 · 09/04/2011 06:54

Really? The NHS direct have always been good when I rang. I kind of say in a really panicked voice 'well that's why I'm worried you see because he wouldn't say'

Original poster

Triggles · 09/04/2011 06:56

eyeofnewtoeoffrog thank you - that is why I was concerned, as I knew some of the symptoms were possible indicators of meningitis and I know how quickly they can go downhill. We are still watching him closely. He's a bit more alert this morning (more like his normal level of disjointed conversation), although the fever is still back up again. Another dose of calpol and then nurofen to bring it down. They gave us a prescription for antibiotics at the surgery... not quite sure why, and they didn't give a very good reason for it either. They weren't sure what was causing it and didn't want us to start the antibiotics right away - said to wait and see how he did. So I'm a bit about whether or not to even give them. His tongue is white this morning... some of these symptoms are also similar to the virus he had a month or so ago... in which case no point giving him the antibiotics for a virus as it won't do anything. I'm loathe to give antibiotics unless they're necessary, even if it is just amoxicillin. He's coughing a bit still - but we've upped his maintenance inhaler, so hopefully that will get better.

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