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Original poster

Somethings really bugging me so had to share (ASD)

58 replies

Marne · 03/04/2011 20:24

When i sit here on the PC i look up and see a photo of dd2, it was taken when she was around 2 months old (one of those photo shoots in boots/pixi photo things), she looks so alert, she looked at the camera when the photographer waved toys around and called her, her eye contact was good and she looks relaxed. At the age of 2 dd2 was referred to paed as she was showing signs of ASD, she was non responsive, poor eye contact and non-verbal, at the age of 3 dd2 was diagnosed with Autism and severe language delay.

The thing thats bugging me is 'when did dd2 become this non responsive child?', when she was a baby she would lie next to me and look into my eyes, she would respond when i called her name and when some one entered the room but at the age of 2 she would not respond to her name or notice things going on around her. I keep going over it in my head (every time i look at the photo) and all i can come up with is the MMR, she reacted to both jabs (mmr and mmr booster/pre school jab), after the booster jab she ended up in hospital after a bad reaction.

Now i don't want to start a whole thread about the MMR argument, i just wanted to share my thoughts about dd2.

She's now 5 and after a lot of therapy will now look into my eyes (briefly) and will respond to my voice, she's doing very well but i can't stop thinking about when it became noticable that she had ASD .

OP posts:

Toppy · 03/04/2011 20:35

It bothers me too Marne. Niggles away and I push it to the back of my mind.

I 100% do not believe MMR causes autism YET I can't deny that things changed for us around the same time. DS was alert, 'flirty' even with his eye contact and babbled. Then shortly afterwards he changed - became fixated with the washing machine and started high pitched squealing. He also had a terribly physical reaction to the MMR and has a deep scar within his scar.
If I could go back and do anything differently I would pay for the private uncombined immunisation. Just to eliminate any doubt.

Now I am going to push it right to the back of my mind again. One day someone will come up with an answer I am sure

Tiggles · 03/04/2011 20:48

With DS1 I had no real concerns about him until he started school, before that I thought him very bright and slightly quirky. However, I remember about 3 weeks before his MMR jab thinking, DS is already throwing tantrums if I use a different route to get home from mums and tots etc or we do something different to our normal routine, if he ever gets diagnosed as autistic (this was around the time of the inital massive MMR debate, I wasn't actually concerned) I know his symptoms started beforehand.
So I guess there can be some sort of developmental 'stage' that can occur in ASD children around the age of 12-13months that coincides with the time frame of MMR.

DietcokeGirl · 03/04/2011 20:59

I look back at photos of DS1 and think exactly the same - good eye contact, posed for photos, health book said how alert he was (and he was at a very early age!). We sat every day and looked at books and I waved all sorts in front of his face and he followed my gaze. He seemed to change around 12 - 18 mths. He has a bad virus when he was 1 and I don't think he was the same after but that prob a coincidence? I remember thinking at about 20 months I had 'lost him' as his eye contact was poor and he wasn't interested in playing with me etc.

I must be a little paranoid about MMR as only took DS2 (18mths) for his the other week and felt physically sick.

I feel your pain Marne - I wish somebody could just tell me why. I had a long labour and became 'high risk' - would feel better if they told me it was that so could move on from these thoughts.

It's time for a glass of wine me things!

EllenJane1 · 03/04/2011 21:00

Like LittleMissGreen, I saw signs of ASD in my DS2 before MMR. He seemed perfectly NT (eye contact, responsive) up until he started walking at 12 months, then he just seemed to go off on his own agenda. Toys were tipped out of boxes but not played with, eye contact stopped, switches constantly switched etc. He had his MMR at 13.5 months, right in the midst of all the controversy. I am really glad he seemed to change before MMR so I can be sure it wasn't something I allowed to happen to him. I really think that the changes just seem to coincide with that age, just over 12 months.

He hasn't had his booster, however, and DS3 hasn't had either MMR. I just couldn't do it.

Original poster

Marne · 03/04/2011 21:02

Dd1 was different, it was clear she was not nt from day one, she was a nightmare baby, unsettled, hated being touched (i dreaded changing her clothes) and we couldn't take her anywhere, so when she was diagnosed with Aspergers i was relieved that there was a name for her problems and it wasn't my parenting skills, so when i had dd2 (who was easy going, could take her anywhere) i thought she was nt. I was shocked when our GP adviced a referral after her 2 year check, we knew she had problems with speach but asumed it was because dd1 would talk for her, she didn't really start with the rugid routines and lining up of toys until after the MMR, i really didn't want her to have the pre school booster but was forced into it by the nurse (who kept phoning me), dd2 reacted within a few hours and the next morning ended up in hospital with a very high temp, we panicked when she went limp and her eyes were rolling, the hospital were not keen on saying it was the MMR that caused it.

OP posts:

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 03/04/2011 21:04

My DD regressed long after the MMR, for reasons unknown, I think the timing was just coincidental

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 03/04/2011 21:06

And I must add she has developmental delay, so when she regressed at 2.10 she was more like a child at age they have MMR

chocjunkie · 03/04/2011 21:19

I know what you mean, marne. DD1's (3) first appointment with the dev paed is coming up and I have been looking recently at old smiley pics & videos of her. she was always always a bit difficult though but things suddenly stepped up within a week of having the first MMR shot... might be just coincidence but I will never know for sure and I find it this really difficult to bear...

we decided that she won't get the booster. I recently had another little girl and I am pretty sure we won't let her have the MMR either.

chinax · 03/04/2011 21:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IndigoBell · 03/04/2011 21:31

I 100% think it was the 3 month jab that caused DSs ASD. Given that his severe reaction included losing his sight for a year......

So I don't think it's the MMR that's dangerous I think it's all vaccinations.

Life sucks.

DietcokeGirl · 03/04/2011 21:32

I took DS2 (18ths) for MMR the other week as convinced myself I would have seen signs by now. I so hope I am not wrong! I haven't taken DS1 for his booster yet.

Agnesdipesto · 03/04/2011 21:34

DS3 regressed a long time after MMR too - about a year - and he lost lots of speech etc. He did react to it though, he projectile vomited that night which the other 2 didn't.

ArthurPewty · 03/04/2011 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Marne · 03/04/2011 21:40

Its a tricky one isn't it, i also wonder if the anti-D i had during pregnancy could have caused ASD, i had it with both dd's but had to have more with dd2 (who is more severe). I guess we could spend our whole lifes wondering what caused/triggered it but its not likely that we will get a answer. I can see why people choose not to vaccinate.

OP posts:

ArthurPewty · 03/04/2011 21:42

This reply has been deleted

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EllenJane1 · 03/04/2011 21:47

I had anti-D for at least DS2 and DS3, can't remember for DS1. I'm O neg and DH is O pos. DS2 has ASD and DS3 is quirky.

Tiggles · 03/04/2011 21:48

I think in my DSs case it is genetic - DH has loads of autistic traits, and I think I probably do too e.g. I find it very hard to make eye contact with people, I have always 'lip read' just to avoid it. Put our genes together and our children probably didn't stand much of a chance :(. Although so far DS3 seems fairly NT, I think the few traits he has are just copied behaviour.

EllenJane1 · 03/04/2011 21:59

Thinking about it I think my anti-D shots were just after birth, so probably a red herring from me. I'm sure there are multiple reasons for autism, genetics being a biggy, but also some environmental ones, which we don't know yet.

I look back at his babyhood sometimes, but not with sadness. He was astonishly cute, and I completely fell in love with him. I'm just as in love with him today. He needs me more than his brothers do, and that makes him even more precious somehow.

5inthebed · 03/04/2011 22:03

I suspected something not "right" with Ds2 from very early on, I'm talking about days here. He was a very placid baby, never cried to be fed, never cried when he had his heel prick (I know a lot of babies don't, but he didn't even flinch), never seemed bothered about playing with toys. He screamed as if he was being tortured whenever we bathed him, specifically washing his head. He wasn't fussed about being held, never cried when I left the room and never hit the milestones like most babies.

I can remember going into work with him when h was about 4 weeks ol, and saying to a few people that there was something odd about him, but couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Took 2 years before anyone would listen to me. We managed to get an appointment to a paed when he was 9months old, he was diagnosed with plagiocephaly, but the other things were just pushed aside and made to feel like a paranoid parent.

Chundle · 03/04/2011 22:10

Hi my dd has no dx as yet other than sensory integration issues. But she lost two words after having her MMR at 14 months and she is now 20 months and has never regained these words :( her behaviour also regressed then as well. I'm told just a coincidence which of course they will say, I'm not so sure I believe in coincidences..... I believe if your child is fragile the MMR will cause harm

Ineedalife · 03/04/2011 22:11

Hmm interesting thread, lots to think about, Dd3 was a very intense baby she liked to be with me mostly. She stared into my eyes when I fed her and reached most of her milestones early.

She had terrible reactions to all her early vaccinations and was showing many quirks before it was MMR time.

She had seperate measles and rubella jabs.

There are untold numbers of family members with undx'ed ASD or similar, so we have generally believed that she was destined to be on or around the spectrum.

For me the jury is out, she is who she is and we all love her to bits.

Chundle · 03/04/2011 22:12

Sorry forgot to say I had anti d in both pregnancies dd1 has ADHD and possible aspergers dd2 no dx as yet other than what posted above

Fedupandfuming · 04/04/2011 00:06

DS1 was absolutely normal in every way (in fact he was unusually sociable, a 'supermarket flirt' trying to reel old ladies in) until 10months. 4 months pre MMR and there was no regression afterwards...the gap between him and his peers just carried on growing IYSWIM.

Coincidentally I was scanning through his baby pics today and it is heartbreaking, seeing his beautiful huge brown eyes looking directly at us and the camera, just like big sis...and then at 10ms he just didn't want eye contact anymore, and photos reflect that pretty dramatically. I just believe that's when his ASD was programmed to start presenting itself. No connection with the MMR whatsoever.

But have to admit I have a seemingly completely NT DS2 of 18ms and he hasn't been vaccinated since 3 months old. Nor will he be. I just couldn't take the minutest chance and have to be ruled by my heart not my head on this one

NorthernSky · 04/04/2011 00:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted

EllenJane1 · 04/04/2011 00:58

There's a theory that the myths and legends about changelings, babies stolen by the fairies and replaced by them, are actually about autism. Your lovely, sociable child stolen and replaced by a completely different one who didn't talk or interact with humans.

Sound familiar? I reckon that the regression we see today has been going on for centuries, before MMR or any vaccinations. I don't think there is anyone or anything to blame, really, at least not for my DS. I don't doubt other people's experiences, but I'm sure the causes are more complex than we know.

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