question about aspergers

[cheeryface]

an 11 year old child that can look at you and know you feel sad , understands sarcasm and idioms can teach a bunch of newbies karate..thats not a child with aspergers is it ?

Can be, don't exclude it purely on that basis.

my sons ASD and my DH we think is AS and he can do the above but he has a lot of other "markers" for want of a better word that do apply to him so still could be , who is it suggesting your DC is AS ?

Ok, remembering how I was when I was 11 I did not pick up on emotions unless someone made it obvious. I can remember my mum telling me she had to have an operation and saying "you know how tired I've been" and I had never noticed that, even though apparently it had been obvious. But I could tell when my dad was angry when he shouted at me and scowled.
I would not have picked up sarcasm at that age, certaintly not when someone was speaking. It is possible I might have understood it when reading a story, because I was a very prolific reader and so the chances are good I might have read something in which a character was described as being sarcastic.
Teach newbies karate, absolutely no way, both in terms of instructions and actually being able to do it myself.

aspergers has been suggested , based on his behaviour since starting secondary school.
Primary school do not think so.
i am totally confused.

i have read lots on aspergers and whilst i can liken some of it to ds2 i was thinking that as the things i mentioned seem to be the obvious ones and he doesnt fit the bill there , that it cant be.

can anyone tell me about their child ? does anyone else have a child that shows empathy , understands sarcasm etc but still has aspergers.

reading lists of traits is not really helping and we have a long wait for the camhs appointment.

I've got a sarcastic one, lol

DS definitely gets sarcasm and irony - has a great sense of humour in fact. I don't know that it's inherent in him though because it was definitely later than my DD understood things like that, I think it comes from living in our house (is fairly sarcastic).

Idioms, well he doesn't get them but he's now past the stage where he takes them literally, he recognizes that they don't make sense or aren't relevant and asks what is meant.

He also has huge amounts of empathy - one you tell him you're upset, rofl, no he doesn't notice your mood at all, he tries, but he misses most things.

My friend's DD though has always tried to comfort people who are upset, from a very early age, much more than any other child I've ever known. She still doesn't like other people to be upset - she was very worried about me when I had to have my dog put down for instance, kept asking her mum to find out of I was ok.

I think it's very hard to say, it can't be Asperger's because they do... as everyone is different - Asperger's or not. It doesn't affect exactly the same things in different people.

What 'markers' do school or you see?

It is totally possible for secondary school to pick up things that you and primary school missed. He is obviously struggling in one or more areas more than would be usual for a Year 7 child....

I didn't realise my 9 year old had Aspergers...

The more research I did the more confused I got. However 3 paeds, an EP and an OT were all totally convinced he does have it...

My DSs main symptoms are:

• Anxiety.
• Black and White thinking. Don't ever bother trying to change his mind....
• Trouble controlling his anger (esp at school.)
• Struggles to make and keep friends.
• Likes to know what's happening when.
• Sensory problems
• Dyspraxia type problems (unable to write legibly)
• He feels he's different to other kids
• Very clever at some things

He can definitely tell obvious emotions. Could easily teach younger kids something he knows well. Has no trouble with idioms. Is OK with Sarcasm.

Thankyou, thats all very helpful. The school said he was isolating himself from the others but it seemed to me he was being bullied. well he was being bullied , whether he would have had problems aswell as that i dont know as he left there.

I didnt get to find out what else they thought as the head of year was also a bully, spoke to me like i was something on his shoe. when ds2 was punched in the face he refused to comment. The school was a big mistake aside from any problems ds2 may or may not have.

He didnt feel safe he said , he hated the fact that 11 year olds were smoking and swearing. He had a friend at first and then they fell out. he stopped doing any work. he would write things in his homework diary but then not be able to remember or make sense of it by the time we came to do it.
After all this i have begun to look back and think maybe things werent quite right before then. But, primary thought he was fine and it could just be him being a sensitive child.

How oon earth can they diagnose when they are all so different ? i want answers

He may well have been able to hold it together in primary but the transition to secondary is drastic.

DS1s 2 primary school both put him down as a sensitive child. He is 8 and been diagnosed with severe AS. The autism team observed DS for 20mins in a lesson and in the playground and knew he had AS. (Confirmed by v high scores in ADOS tests). The school were sure he didn't. On telling them he had a definite diagnosis things that they had just thought were DSs quirks they have started to realise are actually due to the AS - "Oh, yes, he does sing all the way through lessons" Actually he sings when he is anxious... etc.
So don't rely on the primary not seeing it, as a reason that he doesn't have AS, iyswim.

As to your initial questions, DS makes little eye contact, he can tell what emotions are,but he also frequently gets them wrong, eg if I raise my eyebrows in 'shock' he would see the frown lines and think angry. If someone was crying he would know they were sad, but equally if DS2 is screaming and crying because he is hurt, the noise is too much for DS1 and will lead to him screaming rather than showing any form of sympathy.
DS sometimes realises that people are using idioms but certainly doesn't understand them. And again since he has been told about it, he might recognise sarcasm, but also asks if I am being sarcastic when I most certainly am not!

thanks , yes drastic is exactly what it has been. His self esteem is at an all time low and he has the most horrendous tantrums.

will camhs observe him in his new school then ? He starts next week so will have been there a while before the camhs appointment.

what about eye contact , if its poor would it be poor with everyone ?
ds2 has poor eye contact with people hes not sure of but is fine with me and his dad.

My son is not yet diagnosed but the school and the EP think it is aspergers/asd. If ds sees his dd hurt herself then he will comfort her by just plainly saying never mind but that is as far as it goes, or just come and tell me ds is hurt. He has associated crying with with upset so has now worked it out rather than feel empathy. When they lost their Grandad last year which was totally unexpected and they were playing with him the night before, I obviously had to break the bad news.

I said that Grandad was poorly and is tired and gone back to his special star. DD went quiet and "all eyes" and was upset. DS? point blank said "so hes dead then" and went off to play with a toy. Took them to the park and he picked up a dandelion and blew it and said "I wish Grandad would come back for *** (dd). He obviously noticed she was upset so there was empathy there. BUT whether its is because he SAW her upset or he FELT the upset is another matter. When the hamster died dd was distraught ds?.....wanted to see it to see what dead looked like.

ds says a joke ds laughs but he didnt at first it is because we have said we "laugh" at jokes and he has seen us do it so he laughs.

It is like he has worked out you have a reaction to situations and just performs an ACTION as opposed to feeling.

i see what you mean coff, im not sure ds2 is like that though. sometimes myself and dh have fallen out whilst ds2 isnt there and ds2 seems very sensitive to the bad atmosphere the next day.
its really odd but all these traits are asolutely true of his brother ds1. Everyone has always said hes a real one off. Hes never made friends with children only adults and stands out like a sore thumb. but hes so successful in all he does. Hes gifted and talented , passed his gcse's 3 years early and seemed to have been born aged 40 lol he is so sensible (hes 15)
i would say ds2 is the oppposite !

Well done on your older ds! certainly is a gifted lad to pass exams 3 years early! :) :)

Some DCs could have some traits of as/asd but are able to adjust and cope with them and there are some traits they can grow out of :)

I would just have him assessed to put your mind at rest. At least you would know one way or another and ease your worries. Cant see them diagnosing him with AS if he has no problems.

My DS is very bright at 5. He has just done a course of tests for a 7yr old and they were amazed at him because he just cannot cope with a whole class in school and runs off and they have said he is not paying attention or listening or interacting with the children. But he is in his own way he is WATCHING and it sinks in his memory and it stays there. like a photographic memory as such. He couldnt discuss why he put the answers down or how he came about them just that that was the answer.

It could be just that your poor DS has had such a rough time in school and that has shaken up his emotional level. If this is the case it will take a while to boost his confidence in a new school as he is going to be wary of repetition. But I would still check him over to ease any worries :)

eye contact - no it doesn't mean with everyone, mine has good eye contact with me

diagnosis - they look for things within certain areas, social skills for instance... it may affect children very differently so that some are incapable of making friends but others may make friends very easily, but be unable to deal with other social situations, it just depends on what the child is like

sounds like a very clever 5 yr old!!

ds2 is having a lot of problems , emotionally and i will definately take him to the assessment. His outbursts are very difficult to handle. i have started to feel a bit depresssed and anxious myself trying to cope with him as hes been out of school for 2.5 months now. I think either he has been scarred by bullying in a rough school or he does actually have aspergers. something is amiss thats for sure.

i am quite happy to let ds1 (15) carrry on the way he is, hes happy!

thanx tabulahrasa , i ahve always noticed ds2 looking for a split second and keep looking away when hes talking to people or them to him . He looks uncomfortable but i always just thought it was shyness as hes ok with me.
we had a brief talk at camhs who have referred him to a social difficulties team. one of the things they said was that his eye contact was poor.

DS definitely has better eye contact with me than anybody else.

My DS gets all that - sarcasm, idiom, feelings, etc. He can do eye contact although any child who is not comfortable can avoid eye contact to an extent and if DS is confused or uncertain then that is when he looks away. He has a diagnosis of mild AS but also dyspraxia/DCD. There is a lot of overlap between the two. I would say the poor organisational skills were the dyspraxia - how are your DS's motor skills Cheeryface?

i would say pretty good. he is one belt off black at karate and one of the best there i am told . The katas require coordination and memory. i dont get why he remembers all that but cannot remember other stuff that i tell him everyday!

My 10yr old son was diagnosed with autism aged 4yrs. He's in mainstream primary with a Statement and 25yrs help.

He:

Has good eye contact with people he knows at home and at school.

Has just told me that the presenter of a programme we recorded about the moon is very "engaging".

Is bright.

Will talk your socks off on his given subject but will forget how to get dressed in the correct order (without lots of prompting).

Finds it hard to make and maintain friends with peers.

Has poor co-ordination - hopeless at and hating sports at school.

Has a nice little sense of humour but does see things as black and white. There's no grey area.

Is highly anxious and has just been co-diagnosed with OCD. A close friend of autism, I'm told.

It could be that your son has Asperger aspects and the massive change of going up to Secondary has brought on anxiety and heightened his "issues".

thanks wendi , what sort of things could school do to make life better for someone with aspergers do you think ?
of course thats if he does have aspergers.
previously when things were bad at school and i asked ds2 he just said he didnt know.

Cheeryface - There are different sorts of memory and I would also suspect that in Karate they practice and practice a move so it becomes second nature. Remembering your homework doesn't use those skills.

Interestingly (well to me anyway!!) martial arts are supposed be good for people with dyspraxia for that very reason (repetition) and for balance. Anyway, if your DS doesn't have trouble with shoelaces, bike riding, handwriting etc then I doubt he has it - it was just a thought.

Have you read any books on AS? I am sure we could recommend some if it helps. Books are a bit more descriptive than trying to see if you can check items off a list. When DS was diagnosed we were pointed in the direction of Aspergers Syndrome by Tony Attwood but there are dozens out there.