So according to Tanya Byron, a child who manages to behave at school doesnt have problems, even if they show "bad" behaviour at home

[emkana]

So all is needed at home is firm boundaries, apparently...
This is generally the feedback I'm getting about ds, who is four. He copes fine at school but is very obsessive about all sorts of things at home, and very routine-led, and often seems stressed. But everybody seems to be saying that he's just having me on, manipulating me. Is it really that simple? Sorry if you've come across similar posts of mine about this, but I just need to get to the bottom of this.

combined with a developmental delay, I owuld be asking for a referral to a developmental paediatrician, so that you can assess what may be happening.

if he didn't have his physical difficulties, what would you have done by now? would you be expecting him to grow out of it, or would you be seeing a doctor?

both my girls show the complete inflexibility you are talking about. dd1 is ASD, and dd2 is proabably AS (or PDA). but that doesn't mean your ds is - I mean more that thereis somethign there with both of them that needs extra help, iyswim?

What is PDA?

We see a speech therapist, but only every three months, for assessments. No therapy as yet, salt thinks his comprehension is fine, that it's just a phonological issue. I disagree.

Pathological Demand Avoidance. there is a long running htread going here in SN. there are a coulpe of links on that thread.

basically ASD-like behaviours (in a nutshell), but with a social anxiety slant.

oh, and it is ALL about control and manipulation (of the situaion, of people, of anything and everything, tbh)

What kind of tests would a developmental paediatrician do?

my son sounds exactly like yours when crossing the road.however mine is lovely at home(unusual im told) but a right handful at school.He does have a dx of autism but hes like a different child in different settings.

Hi EmKana

Firstly, Tanya Byron is wrong, just plain wrong.

I only have experience of ASD kids, but this is extremely common behaviour for them, so don't blame yourself. They mangage to hold it together at school and then go into total meltdown at home- very common indeed, esp for HF ASD kids.

If you feel there's a problem, you know best, keep going back to see your Dr/ health professionals until they listen.

As a teacher I am frequently asked by parents at parents evenings 'are you aure that's my child you are talking about?' when I discuss their child's beahviour.

This tells me that all children are Jekyll and Hyde to a certain extent.

My HF ASD DS is a PITA at school; sensory issues, hyperstimulation and all the rest of it makes school a difficult environment for him to be in. At home: angel (most of the time!)

This tells me that all children are different for many many reasons.

If you have a hunch that you DC has problems then keep pushing. No one else will do it for them. You do know best.

Tanya Byron is therefore wrong: situational behavoiour is common as a part opf ASD and other disorders. The home environment becomes modified by aprents managing behaviours, whilst school has a distinct set of stimulis and rules that can calm or disrupt a child depending on their nature.

DS1 is quite aware he tends to melt ddown at home becuase it is a safe environment where he can relax; that's common as well as the reverse of a child behaving worse in school due to noise / large numbers of people etc- DS3 does that.

I wasn;t so sure it wasn;t my aprenting at one point but if I need remnding all I need to do is remove the props and routines we have- a car breakdown, unsceduled shopping trip, diversion etc. Then I remmeber!

Emkana if it's ASD developmental tests you want email me and I will dig out the ASD MA powerpoints that coer diagnosis (PM me your addy if you cannot find my email).

Which ones your own paed will use depends entirely on their training and trust policy; personally am a big fan of 3Di but not everywhere offers it.

At the most basic elvel it's obvious a child will behave differently becuase if you have to think through every single social interaction, word, process everything consciously then you will be a thousands times exhausted by the end of the day and we all behave badly when exhausted, no?

emkana ask yr gp for a ref to child development clinic to see a paed , it cant hurt can it better to check now that let something go unnoticed

Emkana - I've seen some of your previous posts. I obviously can't diagnose your child but it is clear that all your instincts are telling you there is something wrong.

I think you should listen to your instincts - some options:

ask your gp or health visitor (whoever you trust more) for a referral to a community paed. Bring a list of your concerns and examples of the behaviour that concerns you.

Find a private educational psychologist. Go on the NAS website www.autism.com as they have some links (not say your ds has autism btw just that it is a good resource to find someone who can provide a dx).

ask to go on a parenting course - not saying your parenting is at fault. My parenting blardy brilliant but as my child does have ASD I needed special strategies and all the support I could get.

By going on the course you show willing, will learn good stuff and also the people running may it be able to pick up if there is something more and help with your referral.

hth

I also think Tanya is wrong and you really should get your child assessed by a paed.

My advice would be 1) listen to your instincts as a mother first of all and 2)that if it is negatively impacting on your life, those around you or HIS life then seek further help. We are in the middle of assessment for DS2 who did have that rigidity - and still does to a certain degree.

How can he be 4.5 already?! sorry serial namechanger these days - not weirdo stalker

Ponder - I have one of those kids who is better behaved (no angel, though) at home than at school. He has ASD and ADHD with lots of anxiety and demand avoidance to deal with and finds the sensory environment and actual demands of school very difficult. It's not that uncommon and not a sign of a screwed up kid, tyvm.

And Emkana, backing up the suggestion to ask for a referral.

A paed would most likely start with a long grilling to find out your child's history and concerns and get an idea of the behaviours you're experiencing then take it from there with further referrals and tests. Exactly what would happen next would depend on your area and your child.

Who's Tanya Byron? Clearly someone who don't know her arse form her elbow as usual with these 'experts'.
She sounds remarkably similar to a clinical psychologist who jumped on board for a brief period about 8 yrs after my boys DX.
Apparently there was nothing wrong with younger son that a bit of proper parenting wouldn't sort out- words to that effect.
Ok so why has my son been diagnosed with Fragile X and autism/complex tourettes/severe ADHD/ a heart murmur and epilepsy? And why the need for him to go to a school for severely disabled children?

She did the same to a friend of mine- Ironically she went round to discuss anger management for my friends DS. She got herself in such a temper trying to pursuade my friend there was nowt wrong with her son, shouted and banged around my friends house!!!
Bloody lunatic she was. She didn't last long.

Trouble is they have the power to make or break what happens to your child.

I think part of the problem with TV behaviour people like Tanya Byron and Super Nanny is that the children/families that we see have been vetted and the films pieced together and edited.

They don't intend to give a reflection of what it is like to parent a child with SN unless they state on the programme, for example surper nanny always says xx has been diagnoes with ADHD and Tanya Byron once worked with a child with selective mutism on TV [many moons ago].

They would never allow themselves to be filmed working with a child they knew nothing about and IMO this gives a false impression of their methods.

FWIW, I listen to what they have to say on the programmes and then smirk and say yeah right I would like to see you put my Dd3 on the naughty step for 8 minutes.

Go to a paed and get an opinion of your Ds not a generalised edited version..

If my ds has had a "bad day" at school (he is 1 to 1 at mo) then he is an angel at home. If the school say he has been settled today and managed some reading or writing..............then he is totally over the top at home and its a long evening! :o

That is because he has struggled with himself all day to get things right and then exhausted from the pressures of keeping it together all day.

It could be just the fact that school rules have always been the same since day one of schooling and he just goes along with it because he is following everyone else. Does he mix well with his friends at school?

It might be just him at what I call "battle of wills stage" being the youngest etc and he is just testing boundaries :)

I would go with your own intuitions. If you think something is wrong or just not quite the norm then get him checked out. It wont do any harm. At least you would know either way :)

Like many here, when you have a combo of NT and SN DCs you know that your parenting style cannot be so vastly different to cause such vastly different outcomes. I have 3 Angelic DCs at school. DS3(NT) is relatively angelic at home too, DS2[NT - but still have ?s) is slightly worse, but DS1 (SN) is positively off the scale. I know its not my parenting. I'd like to see some 'professional 'tell me it is!

Oh I've just realised who that Tanya woman is, Doh!
Oh I wouldn't take any notice of those programmes, They're just plastic TV, not real at all.

Give either her or the other one- Jo Frost- 10 mins with our youngest DS they'd both be running for the hills!

At 4.6 it is easy for him not to be so controlling at school because -
A. Everything is so structured & broken down in to little steps & they are given lots of warning about what is going to happen
B. He is probabily still learning what is the norm, what is the routine & he ahsn't been doing it long enough for things to be firmly entrenched.

My ds2 actually cope better with an entirely new activity or experience than he does with a slight change to a routine.

My ds2 is also very passive at school but it doesn't mean he is any less anxious, it just means that he isnt comfortable enough in that environment to throw a wobbly.
Also he has a physical disability too so has never been able to do a runner from a situation so will just retreat into himslef - Infact he is largely mute at school.

Go with your instincts, you knwo your ds best

ouryve, I honestly didn't notice when I posted that this thread is in SN, so I have completely misinterpreted the OP for which I apologise all round.

(the screwed up kid I referred to - NT, not SN - had a mother who left him in his cot for hours as a toddler while she sunbathed, gardened etc, which meant that when he was older he was always desperate for her approval; he was angelic in her presence, not so elsewhere)

Apology accepted.

I can see the child you know is an extreme (and rather sad) case and I hope that others in the thread have enlightened you as to how their ASD kid's behaviour can vary between different environments in either direction.

And for balance, my DS2 (4 3/4) is the same little turkey at school and at home and is pretty oblivious to any sort of pressure or routine!