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Original poster

What's wrong with her? Is she really loving?

41 replies

ThomBat · 04/10/2005 12:49

Just up for a convo on this really.

"What's wrong with her?" was something someone asked me on Friday. At first I hadn't a clue what she meant so siad 'pardon, what' and looked quizzical. So she repeated it and then it dawned on me she meant what was up with Lottie, as in what are her special needs, why isn't she walking? So I just said 'sorry i don't know what you mean'. So she made herself clear by saying 'well she's not walking is she bless her, what's wrong with her'? i just laughed and said 'ohhh right, well nothing's wrong with her, she's just great, but she's not walking yet becasue she has Down's syndrome' and then said 'come on Lottie choose a book so mummy can pay', and the women sias'ohhh I've got two Downs syndrome cousins'. I resisted the tempation to correct and just smiled sweetly and carried on with my day.

The other thing on Friday was someone who was standing next to us looking at Lottie and smiling and then nodded at her and looked at me and said 'they';re very loving aren't they'. I found this one a little more tricky. What I actually said was 'I don't know, are they? I can't speak for every person who has Down's syndrome. My DD is very loving with her mummy yes, but what child isn't? She's a very loving litle girl yes, but she's also a whinger, and an awkward litt;le madam sometimes.'

OP posts:
oliveoil · 04/10/2005 12:53

I think some people get embarrassed and don't know what to say in some situations, like for instance autistic 'ooooh they are good at drawing aren't they/have a talent for maths' etc. They use generalisations, like your 'loving' one. Maybe the second lady didn't mean to be rude.

I think it is very rude however for someone to say what is wrong with her though, your first encounter, v intrusive.

anniebear · 04/10/2005 12:55

Think thats awful to say whats wrong with her

Think you handled it really well

Mum2girls · 04/10/2005 12:55

You probably (unfortunately) bumped into DP's mum. She would say something like that - general sweeping statements in a vain attempt to strike up conversation.

She also cringingly nudges me and will say something along the lines of "there's one of those....you know....children' then smile pitylingly at the child and the parent.

I don't know where to put myself.

Mum2girls · 04/10/2005 12:56

Is the fact that she's in her 80s an excuse? Probably not.

WigWamBam · 04/10/2005 12:57

I second lady sounds as if she had engaged with Lottie, was probably trying to say something positive to you, and just picked up on one of the common generalisations about Down's. The first woman was just downright rude.

hocuspocusdiplodocus · 04/10/2005 12:58

I agree with oliveoil - I'd have a lot more sympathy with the second questioner than the first! The second was clearly trying to think of something positive and friendly to say, just a shame that she was a bit clumsy about it. The first, well...

(It's me, dinosaur, btw, I've changed my name for Halloween!)

Original poster
ThomBat · 04/10/2005 12:58

I don't think either meant to be rude, and I wasn't really offened be either. It's just I never really know what to say to the 'aren't they loving' line. It just makes me a tad uncomfortable. I don't know if 'they' are all loving, I just know that yes Lottie is a freindly, happy, socialable little girl, who has paddys now and then, moans like hell when i take her shopping or brush her hair! Aren't all kids quite loving with their parents???

OP posts:
marthamoo · 04/10/2005 13:00

The first woman was just bloody rude. You should have said "well, what's wrong with you? Oh, you're just stupid!"

The second - well, my Mum has always said that about children with Down's Syndrome and yes, I have said to her - Mum, you do know that's just crap don't you? It's one of those anachronistic and stereotypical cliches, isn't it? Like blind people can hear very well, and deaf people can see very well, and black men have rhythm and white men can't jump.

I'd be more forgiving of the second woman - because I think she meant well. Fwiw, I think you handled both situations brilliantly and hopefully gave them both pause for thought before they next say something so dumb!

Bethron · 04/10/2005 13:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

oliveoil · 04/10/2005 13:02

My dh always saying 'it's a shame' when he sees someone disabled (we have a care home on our street) and I always correct him and say I bet their parents don't think so. But he doesn't mean anything bad by it iyswim.

NotQuiteCockney · 04/10/2005 13:05

"They're very loving" implies all people with DS are the same, which, manifestly, they're not.

Neither person meant to be rude, but people generally don't.

(Asking what medical condition, if any, a child has, is really delicate, particularly if it's none of your business ... an acquaintance's son has Williams syndrome, and it took me months to work up to asking a common friend, in private, what was going on there ... I'm sure his folks would have been ok with me asking, but I didn't know where to start ...)

Original poster
ThomBat · 04/10/2005 13:06

Yeah, I mean I'm not having a moan, or saying they were wrong, or out of order, it was nothng really, just not had anything like that in a long toime and had 2 things said in a short space of time. I really wasn't upset by either and totally understand. But like I said that generalisation thing is always just a bit odd as i know they mean well but, well....

OP posts:
marthamoo · 04/10/2005 13:08

TB - I can't call you TB, fgs - TC - you can moan away, love - don't we all? It's what MN is for!

marthamoo · 04/10/2005 13:08

You're mulling it over - thinking out loud!

Original poster
ThomBat · 04/10/2005 13:09

notWQuiteCockney - that's it, that's what it is - it's the impling all people with DS are the same, which they're not. Yes that's what is uncomnforable about it.

OP posts:
hocuspocusdiplodocus · 04/10/2005 13:10

It's okay, Thomcat. I feel the same when people say "Oh, I bet your DS1's really clever, isn't he?"

I know they are trying to say something positive about high-functioning autism and about DS1, but the fact that it is a huge sweeping generalisation is a bit weird.

LadyFioOfTipton · 04/10/2005 13:10

argh, why dont people mind their own, hey?

Original poster
ThomBat · 04/10/2005 13:10

yeah, i Am just mulling it over, it's just a little thing, but a little thing really but NQC helped me put it into words with the i's implying everyone with DS is the same when people with DS are all very individual.

OP posts:
marthamoo · 04/10/2005 13:11

And you know all autistic people can do really hard sums in their heads?

Original poster
ThomBat · 04/10/2005 13:11

ohhh sorry what a nonsence line I just typed, hope you can tell what i meant.

OP posts:
oliveoil · 04/10/2005 13:11

I think it is rude to ask any parent about their child in the supermarket or wherever (unless you are asking how they got to be so gorgeous ).

It is just rude. dd1 used to have really bad eczema on her face and I used to cringe when people did a double take and peered in the pram and started asking things. Not quite the same, but still rude.

Maybe next time say 'well that is a bit of a generalisation tbh, but yes she can be lovely like most children' or something.

Saker · 04/10/2005 13:11

Well as a parent of a SN child I do think it is a shame in some ways! I don't mean I don't love my Ds2 and I certainly don't mean I would rather be without him. But it is a shame that he can't hold a proper conversation with an adult let alone a another child his age. It's a shame he doesn't know how to join in his brother's games though he desperately wants to. It's a shame that he can't get dressed or even undressed at the age or 4, or use the toilet, or feed himself with a spoon. I don't want to change my Ds's personality but if I could get rid of all the problems with life that he has I would.

In terms of what was said to Thomcat by the 2nd lady, I think that people often try to think of something positive to say even if it means resorting to cliches. As everyone else says I think the first one was just rude. You can take comfort in the fact that she's probably rude to everyone whether they have SN or not !

NotQuiteCockney · 04/10/2005 13:11

TB, it's similar to a lot of less pernicious forms of racism, as marthamoo says.

Funny, my mom used to work with people with a wide range of disabilities (summer camp type work, I think), and she always told me that people with DS have very nasty tempers and can be very dangerous (which I'm sure is true of some people with DS. It's true of some people of any category, I expect). Making me quite uncomfortable around people with DS.

Saker · 04/10/2005 13:12

Sorry that was following on from what Oliveoil wrote but about 20 people have added something to the thread in the time it took me to type that.

Jimjams · 04/10/2005 14:44

we quite often say it's a shame!

TC just get a stock phrase ready. When people ask me what ds1's special skill is I either say spotting washing lines in estate agent's particulars, or weeing on the floor in front of us before we can stop him. (depending on what mood I'm in).