DS 3.3 going to be 'observed' in pre-school, what should I ask?

[dietstartstmoz]

My DS 3.3 attends a pre-school 2 mornings a week which he loves. He goes to private nursery 3 full days when I'm at work. He has some speech delays and we kep thinking he would make progress over the summer when he turned 3 and he has made some slight progress and has a bank of phrases he uses, but cannot explain himself or talk in sentences, but he understands instructions and is a very happy little soul. I have spoken to pre-school teacher about speech and have requested a SALT assessment, which we have next week.
Today, the teacher spoke to me after his session, she is concerned he is in his 'own little world', does not really interact with others and cannot sit still and she is concerned this will impact on his learning (although he can count to over 100 and knows all letter sounds and can recognise some words).

She has asked that I meet with SENCO this week and she will explain about someone coming in to observe him to see what strategies they can put in place to help him.

What questions should I be asking the SENCO? And also the observer (poss Ed Psych?). Not sure if they suspect ASD or dyspraxia. He has some of the symptoms of both but not all, and not the main traits. he does interact with his brother and also friends children and my nephew, but is also happy to play by himself. not sure what to expect, can anyone advise me what should I ask SENCO?
Thanks for reading through this epic post!

Bumping for you :)

observer might not be an ed psych but a teacher from the council's early years/inclusion service. Given there's going to be a salt assessment next week, I would be inclined to have a brief meeting this week, with a fuller meeting once SALT has given their opinion. E.g. if SALT feels your child has delayed understanding of language, what to do next is going to be different than if your DS's language is age appropriate.

General questions - what do they see as his problem areas, are they thinking of ASD (bearing mind obv that teachers aren't qualified to diagnose but may have suspicion), and what knowledge do they have of local paed referral procedures (might be very little, but you never know, worth asking!)

what sort of support can pre-school offer to improve language and communication, social skills, attention.in particular how to get him to express his needs/feelings, whether its verbally or by pictures or whatever.also the information pre-school can provide to you about his day on a regular basis, so you can talk about his day and know if anything unusual has happened.

you'ld expect them at the very least to be looking at an IEP (Individualised Education Plan) to set some sort of formal targets so that problem areas get worked on.

And should they be looking for getting some 1-1 support in to work on that. I would also start asking questions now about support for when he starts school - obviously we would all hope that he makes a huge leap in language by that time, but in case he doesn't.

also - pre-school or the professionals could do with talking to the private nursery (as could you) to see if they have similar concerns.

Thanks that's great, I have spoken to private nursery today and they agree with everything pre-school have said and are happy to encourage support for DS, as they agree it needs to be across both settings. I agree on the preparation for school as both me and DH have concerns about this already. Thanks, anotherbrick you have given me loads of extra things to ask that I had not even considered.

Any other suggestions would also be useful as my head is spinning with possibilities and future problems....

dietstarts

Neither the observer nor the SENCO can make a proper diagnosis; you need someone like a developmental paediatrician on side in order to do that. Your GP should refer you to such a person as a matter of course.

Re school I would seriously think about now obtaining a Statement of special needs for him. This is a legally binding document issued by the LEA which sets out the child's additional needs. If you are looking at 1 to 1 then a Statement is the only way to go here. www.ipsea.org.uk is helpful re the statementing process.

Is yoru DS on anything like Early years action plus?.

I'm expecting the SENCO to mention early years action plus or possibly looking at statmenting in the future. I will speak to her about this process on Friday when I meet her and try and find out how long the process takes in our area. Not sure what they will say but will ask the School SENCO their opinion and process for further assessments. Thanks Attila for the advice and link.

I would ask about arranging a meeting for everyone involved with your ds where you can all discuss the various issues together. It will also really help with prioritising targets for an IEP.

I would also ask about plans for transition to school. With my two boys the meetings with the school started at the beginning of the term before they were due to start school - so after Easter for a September start.

I agree too about arranging a referral for a full assessment with a Paed.

Thanks coppertop and starlight, I will ask question about funding if he is put onto early years action plus or if he was to get a statement. Meeting with SENCO fri am so will update after that. Thanks so much for all your help-brilliant and much appreciated!

Oh well, looks like i'm going to need all this advice and then some...DH just got back from DS1 parents evening (aged 5) and teacher thinks he needs to be observed by SENCO, as she has some concerns. Although she didn't mention ASD I have always thought DS1 has some traits of ASD although is very HF and copes well. Teacher agrees with traits and obsessions etc...
Shit, both my lovely boys referred to SENCO's within 2 days. Just hope that as they're both young, they will hopefully get the support they need to be happy in School. Can't quite take it in and DH quite upset and reeling from it.

you poor thing, not what you want to hear at a parents evening. of course it's good if a school spots problems rather than overlooking them, but what we all want of course is our kids not to have these difficulties in the first place.

So my day went like this
DS1 (aged 5) spoke to teacher, SENCO not going to observe, just wants me to go straight thru GP. Teacher implied ASD but not said it, teacher will offer extra support, vary work sheets etc but no IEP. Will see GP next week but think we will write a letter this weekend to teacher asking for us to have a meeting to agree timescales for her variation of work sheets etc. and if no progress made them request he is put onto SEN reg so IEP and reviews can be put in place.
DS2-spoke to teacher, SENCO off sick. Teacher explained about early years specialist support service, phoned them while at nursery and made a referral over the phone but waiting for a call back to arrange a home visit and we have SALT assessment next fri.

Feel OK today-quite business like but was in floods of tears most of yesterday.
CAn't quite take it all in. not had a diagnosis yet and may not get a diagnosis of ASD but don't know which DS to worry about more. Not sure how i'll feel if they both get a DX of ASD. Guess i'll be coming to these boards and all the wonderful support on mn.

Tough day today, just want to escape the kids but can't. DH been working today so had the kids all day. Don't know if they will get ASD diagnosis but they're really hard work, especially today. Don't know if it's because i'm looking for things in them now, or just super sensitive but struggling to cope. DS2 3.3 is like an 18 month old, speech and behaviour. We keep waiting for life to get easier and it never does. DS1 gets very stroppy when things not going exactly how he wants them and they're squabbling-argh just want to scream today-but don't most parents of young children say that? Roll on 7pm bedtime!!

hope that you at least had a peaceful Saturday evening! how's things going today?

How are you? Hope everything is ok. Take things one day at a time.

It is concerning and worrying when you are going through the diagnostic, or possible diagnostic procedures. Hope you are feeling alright.

Hi just an update. Been OK, but finding it tough. Blubbed all over my poor friend today when I told her...
Spoke to early years specialist service this morning-very helpful. They have classed DS2 as a priority as he has more significant concerns, and is due to start school sept 2011. A special needs early years teacher will observe him, and talk to me and see what support they can put into nursery to help him progress. This will hopefully happen before xmas, so i'm waiting for them to call me with a date.
Took both boys to see GP tonight-she is a great GP, and was very smypathetic, said all the right things and made me feel a bit better. She felt DS1 appears to have more minor issues but should be assessed to see if he is ASD to ensure appropriate support in place, especially for the future. She felt DS2 has more concerns, which is true, but he will be getting help from early years service. She has made an referral to a paediatrician for assessment for both boys, and said we should not have to wait long, may even be seen in Dec/Jan, so again waiting for a call this week with a date. We still have SALT assessment for DS2 on Friday so will see what they say,

Cannot stop thinking about all this and feel knackered already, but guess we will have to see what the experts say, and hopefully we will be able to get some support in place. Think i'm going to need MN support though, so thanks for asking how I am.

Offering hugs.

A few eyars ago now we got a formal dx for ds1 (AS) in December and in June were told ds3 had to be assessed (he ended up being dx'd with mroe severe ASD). A year later ds2 was palced on SEN register for dyspraxia and ds4 is being seen in late December by Paed, though mainly routine I think- he has traits but not i think ASD.

It was an absolutely rough time and I won;t pretend otehrwise as I think that does people a disservice. The adaptation does come, but very slowly and still ther are days when it is ahrder than others.

But you are at the start of a journey only: take it step by step, be very kindly to yourselves and allow yourselves to react in whatever way you do. ASD can be very mild indeed in the long run so don;t get too scared- if I had known ds3's severity early on I would have been scared but now he's just my very lovely little boy. OTOH ds1 is making strides I enver thought he would (been voted captain of school council) and you can never tell.

XX

Thanks santas, i know i am very lucky to have 2 beautiful healthy boys, but both me and DH have some experience of working with ASD kids through our jobs, and i'm so aware of what a battle it can be for some kids. I think if DS1 is DX he will be mild, but will still need support in school as he is already not doing well at school and he is only yr1, but DS2 may be more severe if dx as he has speech and developmental delay, but will have to see what the experts think. It's just a bit of a bombshell really, both being referred within 2 days, and now DH and I are questioning everything, things we had dismissed we're now thinking, maybe that's a trait. feel guilty that I may have missed these things for these past few years and feel guilty for being upset as they're still great boys, and I love them to bits. I can't tell my parents yet as they will not understand at all, will have to tell them when and if there is something to tell I guess.

I have a pile of owerpoints from my MA in ASD to send to people and may as well catch up; if you hit the message poster button alongside I can add you to my list if you give me your email? Lots on diagnosis / early input etc

Thanks santas-have messaged you. Thanks again.

Hello all and an early Merry Christmas. Just wanted to update, think i'm going to need some support in the New Year.
We have a paed appt for both boys 12th Jan. This will be an initial appt for poss ASD diagnosis. Not really sure what to expect or how long we will be there? Anyone got any experiences of their paed appt? DS1 is not such a cause for concern to us, although his teacher thinks he has some issues, but i'm worrying myself stupid over DS2. He's lovely but hard work, DH is struggling to cope with him, and it feels like I always have him as I have more patience. Everything he does, funny noises, behaviours is a reinforcement that he's going to be ASD. I am crying everyday, and feel distraught. We had speech therapy assessment which was good, and we will be starting a speech therapy group end of Jan for 3 weeks. Early years specialist service have done a home visit and will be doing assessments of DS2 in nursery in early Jan, I know we can't change how he is, but I am really struggling and we haven't even had a confirmed diagnosis of an LDD yet. Parents don't understand ASD and say there's nothing wrong with him when there obviously are concerns. I don't know what I will do if we get a dx and what to do about my job, stay or leave to give DS2 more support. Will be stressing about everything in Jan I guess.

Each area has slightly diff procedures so would phone up the paed sec to ask about procedure often the paed forms an opinion but refers on to a multidiscip team for formal diagnosis. Not all kids get a dx that get assessed btw.

It worries me a bit that you're thinking of giving up your job. Peri-diagnosis probably isn't a good time to be making any life-changing decisions, as the whole process really messes with people's heads. And it can take ages.

Have you phoned up for DLA forms? You don't have to fill them out for some weeks, but they're date-stamped, any benefit will be backdated to the date of your call. That way, if you later decide that the job is an added stress, you'll hopefully be able to get carer's allowance

Most people don't think they're entitled, as there's no diagnosis. If you google the cerebra guide you'll probably see that you are, possibly even for both boys. And going through the guide is a good way to consider all the issues you need to tell the paed about.

I have always known that dd 3.5 was ASD and expected/needed the diagnosis but surprisingly it still knocked me a little.

It has help dp massively and being part of the assessment week was very important to him, he can now see beyond her 'naughty behaviour' and is determined to develope her stronger skills of which she has many she is a delight when not in full meltdown.

For us the process from initial ref to diagnosis to 10 months, ref January, Pead appointment July, Multi Disciplinary and DX October.

It has been a long year but we are now have the dx prior to her starting primary which can only be a good thing.

Ask for more detailed info on timelines in your area, ask ask ask everything and anything info is not always forthcoming.

Good luck

Hello Diet, good to hear your update-you sound like you are having a pretty tough time. Its an emotional thing so totally natural to cry.
Our paed was the first meeting we had with a professional. She observed him for a bit whilst asking questions about his birth etc. She then called in a Speech Therapist to ask her opinion (they both agreed DS presented with ASD traits) and put him forward to be formally assessed. Basically this meant his name went on the waiting list and 8 months later, we had the appointment and received a diagnosis. Hope this helps. Try not to worry too much-you are taking all the necessary steps to ensure your children get the help and support they need.