Moondog, need some PT help please!

[working9while5]

Hi there

I have just been in to begin handover with my mat leave cover. In one of my secondary settings, they took a baseline of 20 curricular words at the beginning of term which they are working on with the Year 7's.

I want to PT these words now as I want to specfically focus on the fluency/repetitin aspect. However, my memory for PT is a bit shaky. I've had a look at the SAFMEDS stuff and the basic principle I get, but am not sure how to chart it as this asn't something I did back in the day. We used to simply fill in data sheets which senior staff charted so I am not sure what to do?

Any help gratefully received.

Hehe, that's my life.
Take time to read up thoguh on my links so you know what it is about.

Fab DJ Then you can come and teach MY ds

There is nothing like having a plan and knowing you can make a difference, but my word what a burden (knowing that no-one else will do it if you don't that is)!!!

Have done.

MMmm, yes, I'm positive I'm using rogue methods Moondog. Standard celeration chart...not sure how you do one of those?

Rogue methods will still be better than mch of what happens in standard SEN setting.

Standard Celeration Chart.....pretty difficult to do without a tutorial, but look at links for an idea.

How on earth would you do PT with handwriting?

I get that you would do an exercise for a minute multiple times a day. And you could measure if it got faster, ie wrote more in a minute.

But how would you measure if it was neat enough? I mean how would you give feedback to the child that this letter was acceptable and this one wasn't?

Would you try it on single words or letters or spaces between words?

Completely guessing with my rogue methods but, if letters weren't being formed properly, you could practice say 'g' or 'a' or whatever other letter/word is causing the problem on lined paper with examples of how the letter should look. Then the child can see how the letters should be formed and try and copy the example as best they can.

Then you could let the child try and do them alone usingthe same paper and time them. You can then compare the letters with the 'perfect' examples.

MD how many times a day do you think you need to do something? It can be difficult to get DS to do anything he doesn't want to. Do you practice first?

Thanks a million moondog! They look fantastic - I am now on a mission to transform how we do things.

When I did PT before, we would start with
one stimulus and a distractor and then include another so it would go

S1 - Distractor
S1 S2 Distractor
S1 S2 S3 D
S1 S2 S3 S4 D

(thinking of naming, RFFC, classification, no repetition, receptive labels etc)

and so on. Very fast-paced.

With the SAFMEDS, does the timing/ manner of introduction matter? I am hypothesising that with an adolescent SLI population it will be less important to be strict about the order in which stimuli are targeted as they wouldn't be inclined to just guess via small variations in pattern of exposure?

Are you going to remain a SALT or be an ABA person as your main job after this MSc?

I found this about PT handwriting www.home-school.com/Articles/phs64-michaelmaloney.html

Which has given me some ideas....

It's a pleasure 9-5.
I'm nbot quite with you on how you presented your PT tasks but presentation of SAFMEDS is important yes.

I have stolen a model/lead/test intro from Direct Instruction (another fantastic methos of learning that yields stunning results) which works well with SAFMEDS. Read my handouts and it explains it all.

Good question Indogo re child knowing whether letter/word acceptable or not. In this field we work on one thing at a time so I would (with a real beginner) look at maybe

1. letter touching bottom line
2. letter touching top line

and so on and so on.

With some kids, it's literally starting with marking a paper.

Now, they need immeditate feedback on acceptability of effort in a way which doesn't interrupt the flow of thier writing (as 99.9% of praise/info/criticism does) so what we do is combing TAGteach and PT.

With SAFMEDS, the kid gets feedback about 'learning opportunities' because the 'wrong' SAFMED goes into a differnwt pile to the 'corrects'. That structure is not possible with, say, letter formation, so I TAG acceptable eforts and don;t TAG those that aren't. The silence says it all!

TAGteach

You can TAG with a regular counter (like tey use on trains) and if you work in a given period of time, when it is over, the counter will give you the number of 'corrects' which you subtract from the whole.

Indogo, you have linked to stuff written by the KING of Precision Teaching/Direct Instruction namely the fabulous Michal Maloney (with whom I had my picture taken at last year's ABA conference in Texas. It has pride of place in my office. He is amazing. He produces lots of fabulous books (mostly for pisssed off American home schoolers who have lost faith in the system) under the title 'Teach your children well'

He has a website of that name. It's a bit amateurish but ignore that. This guy is the business.

Also, Indigo, follow the link on the left (his name) for more articles.
Here, maybe?

I can't say anything about the rest of the peopel on that site though. Don't know who they are.

Moondog, our PT programmes were designed by Ken Kerr (University of Ulster) so may have been specific to him. I may have a look at his work again!

I'll ask my colleagues at the uni about him.

I checked him out on Google.
Co-founder of Saplings school eh!
Obviously top chap.

I know we've hi-jacked a professionals' thread (!) but I'm getting confused (too many acronyms for my brain). Is there anything really straightfoward - easy peasy beginners book - for laymums to read?

No, not at all!
The point is that so few professionals know about this anyway and in most cases it is parents who have taught themselves.

Try here
Here

Thanks MD. The Maloney stuff is really interesting on the site Indigo mentioned too.

Do you just do it once a day or do you need to do more regularly?

You need to do this several times a day to get best results.The more you do, the more fluent the skill will be.

It's a case of being disciplined and fitting it into the little pocketsof time you have.

I run stuff through with my kids in the morning and at night.Once you start getting results, you really are motivated to do more.

I'd love to run a little study day for interested MNers. It would be such fun.

Ooooh, yes, you should hold a little day course for us all!

Well seriously you could all club together and book a session on this with one of the best people in the business, an academic colleague of mine at the university with which I am affiliated OR attend the Precision Teaching module which is part of the MSc in ABA course. It's a million times easier to get to grips with when someone talks it through with you.

Here

Stark contacted him on my recommendation and he has indicated his willingness to do so if you can get the numbers together.

If you do, and it is within travelling distance, I'll come or send dp if i can't.

I don't know how your friend would feel about this Moondog but there is a thread running in SN about parent power with some frustrated parents exploring what they can do to raise awareness of how their children are being failed.

I'm not entirely sure that 'A group of Mums who met on an internet forum were all so disillusioned with the provision for their children they clubbed together and booked themselves into a university course to empower themselves to help their children where the people who's job it is to do so were letting them down' wouldn't make a good story.

Although there are implications for the university, the potential blown cover of posters and heads up for LA personnel so it couldn't be done without thought.

If we did it and it was residential I'd run an evening class on key policy documents that support EPB, accountability and partnership with parents.

I don't think people have to be cloak and dagger about this and I doubt that anyone has the time or inclination to match posters with real people.

It would be really fun.
Parent power definitely but parent power in the sense that peopel learn to help themselves nad then put pressure on services to meet their expectations.

That is how Treehouse started-in a public library.
That's how a lot of adult provision for people with SN started. Pissed off parents wanting their adult offspring to do more than moulder in day centres with all day tv blaring.

I am constantly impressed at the calibre of posters on this thread and the tenacity of parents. As I tell some frustrated paretns I work with-don't waste your energy trying to change other people who have a lot to lose often by admitting it is a case of Emporer's new clothes.
Effect change yourself and then sit back and smile as they come knociknig on your door, clamouring to know how it is done.

That's my present experience.

I think with your knowledge, you could become an independednt consultant with this stuff and/or speak at conferences such as ICAN.

I speak on this stuff but even more powerful as a parent (I am a parent but do not publicise my own experiences in work as it is not about my child in that context.)