Why oh why don't they get it????

[fightingthezombies]

Ds (10) suspected AS and very good vocabulary since 2. Has numerous traits such as taking things literally,struggling to follow instructions,appearing rude etc...
Came home today complaining he has been in trouble yet again. Talking in assembly so told to stop (fair enough) then given a final warning - he said o.k. and was then told not to answer back. He replied that he wasn't answering back,just saying o.k, then went on to say to teacher that her idea of answering back was different to his. Teacher then replied " well you usually get into trouble for answering back don't you?" . Yes, I know he needs to learn to say the right things to teachers but they know he has social difficulties and aren't helping at all. Just wanted to vent really.

Empathise with this. Poor kid. Expected to say (or omit) the right things with 100% accuracy. And dinner ladies etc are even harder to please than teachers.

Even the old fashioned 20 lines of 'I will not say x to Mrs y' was more constructive than being permanently subject to criticism and disapproval.

That is exactly the knid of response I get from Dd3. Your Ds is right of course he was only saying OK.

Dd3 has somehow learned to keep it in at school although I have seen her moving her lips and saying things very quietly.

I don't know how you can help your Ds and i really feel for him.

Most staff in schools will only 'believe' in spectrum type behaviour if there is an actual official diagnosis, in my experience.

My DS was 'naughty' and told off a lot when in his reception year, despite having a statement. When he finally got dx of ASD his life got a lot easier. He hadn't changed but they did.... They did know it was suspected but until it was official they must have felt I was 'making excuses' for him.

Maybe pushing for a dx would help?

Thanks all. Ds in tears again after more problems with being misunderstood. The staff do believe he has an ASD and have been generally supportive. We have already had a meeting with HT to see what's changed since last year but received no real answers. Final sm due soon so I look forward to the review meeting and 'proper' targets on IEP. Seriously think they are just biding time until he leaves next year .

I seriously think that many school staff need to be told to read a bit about ASD, there is so much information out there and we are all saying the same things to the same people over and over again. Why the hell cant they just Google ASD and make themselves more knowledgable..

Sorry am p..... off with school again today.

Everything you reported he said in your OP seems entirely logical. It must seem such a queer world when people constantly question your irrefutable logic .

Know just what you mean Ineed. I have asked if staff have ASD experience and told they have been on a training course run by the much use as a chocolate fireguard Senco.
His LSA seems to be making offensive remarks too so I have logged everything for next meeting.

Chocolatespread - I know. How can I explain to ds when he asks what he's done wrong?

Oh fighting, am so with you. We have had a similar incident today, with ds's teacher reporting "he just wouldn't see it from my/her point of view"! Well, er, no .. he wouldn't would he. She then went on about how she tried "at least 26 different ways of telling him and trying to get him to see it, but he just wouldn't".

He was so distressed he asked them to call me as he was too upset even to go to his beloved chess club.

Thing is, once again he was in the right. He was accidentally injured by another child. He did understand, after calming down and having it explained, that it wasn't deliberate, but that wasn't what he objected to. He objected that the other child was doing something downright dangerous in a classroom full of children, then when the inevitable accident happened, she didn't get told off and he was basically told off for getting upset and over-reacting, despite being the injured party. Poor kid has a big bruise on his cheekbone (he was hit in the face by a 1kg weight that another child was swinging around in the classroom) and has needed arnica cream and calpol since he came home. He was in a right state.

Can't help wondering how differently the situation would have been handled if she'd hit an NT child rather than ds. If an NT child had cried and wailed after being hit in the face, they would most likely have taken it very seriously, but because it was ds, he must have over-reacted!

We have his IEP review meeting tomorrow and I'm dreading it. They've been gearing up for a fight over the past few weeks to be honest and I'm sure its all going to come to a head tomorrow. Thank heavens our lovely EP is coming along to back us up. God I love that woman.

Have spent the whole day today printing, sorting, filing, cross-referencing and gathering paperwork and evidence that spans his 5 years at the school. Still haven't finished and I started at 8.45 am. Even my printer's had enough and decided to give up on me.

Fighting, I have put together a few choice documents downloaded from the NAS website from their school support pack and toolkits for teachers section. I haven't printed it all, just the most poignant parts and I've been through it all, highlighting the bits that are most relevant to ds1 and how to handle him. Have put it all in a folder, with dividers and everything to make it easy to read.

I fully intend to give it to his teacher tomorrow.

Now I know that she will most likely act all affronted and tell me that "I've already had a leaflet about ASD" but maybe, just maybe she will read some of it and it there's an outside chance possibly learn something? Who knows, but its got to be worth a try.

Our EP has also said she is going to help us create a passport for the school, so that all the staff will have a better understanding of ds and how best to handle him.

Moosemama..Your poor Ds what a stupid person who tries "26" times to get someone to see something from their point of view.
And teachers are supposed to be intelligent!!

Good luck for the meeting.

Sorry for the multi-posts, just keep thinking of something else and then I saw your last post.

I tell ds1 that I agree with him and in my opinion he's right, but that other people don't always see things as clearly as we do.

Then I tell him that sometimes we have to back down, because, even though we are right, they are never going to agree with us and it will just keep causing a lot of upset for everyone concerned.

Today I told him that he was right, the other child should't have been swinging a weight around in the classroom, it was dangerous and she should have been told to stop. However, rightly or wrongly the school rules say that the teacher makes the decisions about what happens in her classroom and she has to do this, otherwise, if everyone thought they could make the rules, there would be chaos, with everyone thinking different rules apply to them. She needs to make the rules to keep control of the class and sometimes she doesn't get it right, but she is human and we all make mistakes - even teachers.

We then had a chat about how he should try his hardest not to tell teachers they are wrong (even if he is sure they are), as not only do they really, really not like it when children point out their mistakes, but it will only get him into trouble and the end result will be him being upset and unhappy.

Not sure how much of a difference it will make, but at least he feels heard and understood by someone now.

www.autism-outreach.org.uk/

Thanks Ineed2.

He was so, so, sad and defeated when he got home. It was heartbreaking to see.

Its unbelievable isn't it, surely - even if you thought for some reason you could get through to him - you'd try one or two different approaches then give it a rest. She could have tried a hundred different approaches, it wouldn't have mattered, he was never going to agree with her that the other child did nothing wrong.

It is just unbelievable that some teachers seem to have a complete inability to understand our children.

Dd3 has changed so much in the last couple of years, Its like her spirit has been crushed. We see tiny glimpses of the real her at weekends and more of her in the holidays. But she puts so much effort in to keeping her head down and her mouth shut at school that they don't have any idea what the real Dd3 is like.

As I have already said once today the school have had my child for 6 hours a day, for 5 days a week, for 3 years and they still no nothing about her.

Moosemama, it sounds like she didn't bother trying the most useful strategy - time to calm down!! Hope your DS is ok

That's so right Ineed2. Ds has been at his school for 5 years and they failed to see his ASD at every turn, despite us asking repeatedly for help. How could they not have seen it, when this year's teacher keeps telling us how she can't cope with him, his handwriting is illegible and he can't focus long enough to complete his classwork.

Basically, I think they just didn't want to notice. Ds passes tests with flying colours. He loves facts and works best in a quiet, exam-like conditions. They didn't worry about him, because he wasn't failing academically where it mattered most to them.

Thanks Purple, I've actually had a conversation with the EP this week where she said, from her recent observations the teacher fails to give him enough, if any processing time for instructions, let alone time to calm down. He really needs somewhere to go and calm down, he's very self-sufficient and if you tell him to go and cool off somewhere, he does it and comes back fine and ready to get on with things. This is just one of many things I shall be raising tomorrow.

That is exactly it moosemama... they don't want to notice. Dd3 is bright and is well able to cope academically, like your Ds she enjoys quiet times and loves tests. That is all they see.

That was exactly my experience at school. As long as I was seen to be doing ok academically the teachers didn't care about anything else.
As for not getting it, Ds1 has his review next week. Ds1 therefore has targets for this review. In order to show how much they have thought about Ds1's individual needs, the teachers have pretty much lifted quotes from the Pscales and NC. One of them is for Ds1 to "understand codes of behaviour which helps groups of people work and play together".

Wow - been away for a bit and now loads of posts.
Moosemama please let me know how the meeting goes tomorrow - I could do with some tips
I have also copied documents from NAS website and taken them into various meetings - just haven't managed to hand them over to Senco yet. Think they will just think I'm being difficult. I have sent various letters into school but am then told that I am upsetting the staff!!!! Let them try being in my shoes where ds is self-harming after bad days at school then they'll know what upset is. My ds has also asked school to call me when he is upset but they won't as I'm at work. Fair enough but they shouldn't be letting him get into such a state. They don't understand that if they can nip these incidents in the bud then they don't escalate into huge problems. I am so ready for a fight with them when statement is finalised.

fighting - not sure how much help I'll be, I'm not good at face to face conflict. I write a mean letter, but am fundamentally a people pleaser by nature and tend not to stand up to people enough when the going gets tough. Dh and the EP are attending too though, so hopefully we will make at least some progress.

Dh and I have just finished putting all our paperwork together and writing a list of questions, problems and desired outcomes and gathering evidence from his work from each year of school so far. I think we might need a truck to get it all there - can almost see them rolling their eyes as we arrive already.

Will let you know how it goes though.

Moosemama - do you have a statement yet? Can't remember. I was told by Senco that I wouldn't get one but school have been strangely quiet since . Once I have the final sm in my hand I will be requesting review meeting. The last one was awful - just handed IEP and asked to sign it. Could see that they just didn't want to engage with us. Will be interesting to see what they will do with all the hours they're now getting funded for [bitter emocion].

Nope, no statement yet. We were going to apply in September, but between one thing and another haven't managed to do it yet.

You got yours didn't you? Sorry, I can't remember clearly, but didn't you have to fight tooth and nail and go to tribunal? Well done for fighting and winning.

I am so scared of the process, I need to do it for ds's sake, but if I'm honest, I don't really feel up to the fight. I think that's why 'things' keep getting in the way.

At least all my paperwork is in order and up to date now, so that should make it easier at least.

Bizarrely, ds1 came home with two of his year 2 classwork books yesterday (he's in year 4 now). He said his teacher found them in a drawer in the staffroom. Not sure why, but I think I smell a rat. Why would they suddenly hand us a load of his year 2 exercise books the day before his IEP review in year 4?

They also set the meeting 25 minutes before I have to collect the boys from school. Can't believe that wasn't deliberate. Have called their bluff and arranged for Mum to pick them up and look after all three till we get back.

I still have some notes to type up and email ver for my Mum to print for me, then I'm going to sort myself out, have a bath, do my hair and nails and make sure I've got something reasonably smart to wear (although I have discovered I don't really have any smart clothes left after 8 years of being a SAHM). I want to make sure I look presentable and in control and at the moment I look anything but. I really need to feel confident, because I know I'm the type to crumble under pressure.

Best of luck, Moosemama. I'm a people pleaser too, sometimes you have to decide who it's more important to please - in your case, your son or some smug teacher who thinks she knows best because she read an article in Cosmo once...

Hope it went well Moosemama. Our request for SA was initially refused but I argued the reasons and they backed down so luckily didn't have to go to tribunal.
Had call from school this morning following an incident and ds is now excluded . School can't give additional support until sm is finalised.