ARGH- Secondary School Applicaitons, ASD.

[SantasMooningArse]

got the form yesterday; only a few days to do as ds1 lost the first one; why they passed something so inportant to him I will never know.

So- ds1 is up for a palce at a specialist AS Base, that has to go first: 2 places, 30 kids on 'final list'.

Local comp goes second- except that never goes to second places; usually twice over subscribed as is a good school (not for asd imo but generally).

Next school, third, most likely then. We won't qualify for transport due to distance, and the drop off time is EXACTLY the smae time as ds4's nursery then school satrts, and ds3's SNU taxi pick up arrives.

there is actually no way of winning is there?

How come there are 30 on the list? Our LEA know at least a year in advance which child is going to be given the place in the unit.If threatened with tribunal though they bump the child "allocated" down though.You could always try the tribunal threat. Doesn't your statement give priority to your second choice anyway?

Statemented children in our LEA don't fill in the request forms anyway because the school is named on the statement at Transition review.

Severe shortage of SNU provision here as withdrawal of building funds meant new provision couldn;t go ahead.

If your child has AS there's only one specialist place can take them

Ditto moderate SN of any kind and severe SN of any kind.

Still have to do forms for statemented kids, as there's an extra space on abck where it asks if the chosen school has been recommended at annual review (it was). But tehre's been a massive hike in applications so although Base positive about ds1's application, far from any guarantees.

LEA didn't even make it to the transition review anyway, and the area rep we are allocated to has left the LEA and not been replaced.

Cn we get a school named on statement after the rounds if we fail? School doesn't want him (say they can't meet his needs and I think they are right)

Ah it says on teh form that if you put a school second no palce will be allocated until all people putting it first have been offered a palce.

Sanata - I think that's now illegal - check the Admissions code.

Will do thabk you; would it differ that we are in Wales, and that school is classed as a community school?

Understand about the shortage of spaces in ASD bases, there are four places in the whole county here.But the places are allocated by the LEA so you can't request a place they have them earmarked a year in advance.
On the admissions criteria for the schools you want does it give the order of priority of admissions. Pretty sure that a statement gives you either first or second priority so if you didn't get the base you would be guaranteed a place at school number two.

Statement kids come after looked after and alongside local residents but there are far too many local residents for that to be much use- basically school covers quite a wide area over three counties.

Am also a bit worried tbh as our lease expires this month, landlady hasn't made a decision yet and moving between now and start of term apparently counts as a late application and you lose anything (except base place) anyway. Argh!

Oh no looks like you need to go all out for the base then. Does ds have a full time statement? Our places are generally allocated on how many hours are on the statement tbh and how difficult the behaviour is to manage. LEA viewed the "possibles" in primary school prior to transition review and ds behaved appallingly (even for him ) so secured his place Have you mentioned that you would go to Tribunal to secure a place in the base? Have you thought about looking into it?

Santa if you have a statement the LA should definitely name the school you've requested. This is the law and the LA can't choose to ignore it - Statementing comes above Looked After because it's not part of the oversubscription criteria. I didn't have to fill out a secondary admissions form - in our area it's all done through the Statement (don't know if yours is different as it's Wales).

A school must admit a child whose statement names the school even if they're full. The only circumstances where the LA can name a different school from the parents' preference is where the preferred school is:

• unsuitable for the child's needs
• the placement would be incompatible with the efficient education of the other children with whom the child would be educated
• the placement would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources

Whether there are enough spaces available or not doesn't come into it. A tribunal can direct a school to admit a pupil even if they're full. LAs will fudge this bit as obviously they can't put all 30 pupils into the unit (saying that it would be incompatible with efficient education of others if too many are admitted). So it does tend to be the loudest parents who get in there first who manage to win a place when resources are scarce.

I would suggest posting in the Secondary Education board as there are some knowledgable posters on there who can give detailed help regarding admissions.

Not much to add really as not at this stage yet. Just wanted to offer my support and wil keep my fingers crossed he gets first choice.

only really know the basics, but might it be worth speaking to SOS!SEN at this stage re:statementing and the 2nd choice comp.

apols if this is a stupid question, but are you sure that you can apply directly to the AS unit on the same form as for m/s comps? just thinking back to primary applications for ds and how the language unit admissions in England were completely separate, through the LA and "panel" decisions.

Thanks 5in.

Right the process as we have been told is this:

in November / December unit teacher goes to a panel meeting with ed psychs etc and is handed a box of files; she chooses those for whome there is space in unit.

She seems quite keen on ds1 (who has a 16 hour statement). I know a staff member of the unit vaguely via an MA I am doing in ASD; theya re the only school that can help with ds1's eating issues and Psych has written to LEA to tell them to accept our choice of school.

But Ed PSych also gets a say and ASD advisory teacher and they have enver met ds1 as school missed the referral fdates for them. now, advisory teacher knows of ds1 as we broke down a little at a meeting about our otehr asde child and she was shcoked at complete lack of input so- but Ed PSych last saw ds1 when he was 6 and that was a different one. Area has been without an Ed PScyh for

eeek sorry LOL, phone rang

without ed psych for a few years so only rare children get seen and then only once

another- as unit was applied for aaaages ago but form dsimply said 'whatt school do you want / if your child has a statement was this school recommended at transition meeting'

at no Ed Psych for several years. Can you ask for Ed Psych to see him now - by self-referring or through LA/school?

Which school is the one that says it can't meet your DS's needs? Write to them and ask them to confirm that in writing - if no other schools agree to take your DS then he will have to go in the SNU.

Tbh I got an independent EP report and went to tribunal when the LA tried to put DS in an unsuitable school. But I know I was lucky to be able to put it on my credit card afford to do so.

For now, you just need to apply through the schools through whatever channels your LA recommends and submit as much evidence you can in favour of the unit. If you have any other professionals on-side, start asking for their recommendations in writing.

Don't start worrying too much though until the amended statement comes out - you'll have the right to appeal to tribunal if they don't name it and you'll have time to build a case as tribunals take several months to be heard.

The LA must send an amended statement by 15 Feb to allow you enough time to appeal if you need to.

It seems a really poor way of allocating the places tbh. How do you know that the head of the unit wouldn't pick two children who would be easier to manage?
The Inclusion officer allocates the places in the bases in our LEA and takes advice from autism outreach and ed psych. The schools are just told who they are getting although I assume that they are sorted according to difficulties as ds travels 30 miles when the other unit is only six miles away.
Ds wasn't initially earmarked as the child to get the place but I threatened tribunal and as it turned out ds has had the highest level of need throughout his time there.
Ds had a 32hr statement and continues to have 1 to 1 at all times even within the base although the majority are far more independent.
Preparing for my own battle to keep him there for sixth form but luckily our LEA try and avoid tribunals, the school want to keep him and no other school want him or could cater for him.

Our secondary allocation process was similar to Santas. The parents were asked to name three choices in October, the statement was sent to those choices and the headteacher looked at all the statements to decide whether the school could meet the child's needs (as stated on the statement). That made a short-list and the LA panel made the final decision based on the short-list from all the schools and all statemented pupils.

It makes sense to me as the head would know in more detail what the school could offer better than the Ed Psych or inclusion officer. Our LA Ed Psych is useless though, she hadn't even visited some of the secondary schools in our area so didn't know much about them.

I do think the HTs cherry-pick the most manageable pupils here - that worked to our advantage as all the mainstream schools said they couldn't cope with DS and I wanted him to go out of county.

Well for us we had the transistion review the LIO attended and had invited the SENCO of the school the LEA expected me to accept (local mainstream secondary with good SEN support system in place)
I said at the review I wanted a specialist placement. Ed psych and Autism Outreach were supportive of my choice of a specialist placement and the SENCo the LIO had invited started back peddling when I was pressing for answers as to how ds's needs would be met in specific circumstances.
There was no agreement at the review although I did make arrangements to view the school the LEA wanted.
I viewed the school and the SENCo was honest to admit that they couldn't meet his needs LIO hadn't been entirely truthful as to his difficulties.
Contacted LIO repeated that I wanted specialist placement and would be going to Tribunal for Independent Special school if no maintained specialist placement offered.
LIO phoned a week later offering a place at the autism base which she had said didn't have a place the week previous as well as transport which she said we couldn't have because we were rejecting nearest placement.
Viewed the placement (brand new school and unit) ds was to be one of the first two pupils to get that provision in the county. It has undoubtedly been the right placement for ds and the school are supporting me in my fight to keep him there for sixth form

LEA missed several transition reviews so it ended up going ahead without them. ASAIK they don't have anyone entitled inclusion officer- not on staff list- although our aprent partnership officer is excellent.

The SENCO / manager at the AS Base seemed really supportive of teh choice- however it is noted that school have not documented the worst of ds1's behaviours, such as 'nibbling' (biting teachers) so they might have a few shocks ......

WRT to the non suitable school that was the local comp, they have a bizarre lottery system for offering sen help which is in response to the sudden loss of expansion funds. I don't want him there, they don;t, ds1 doesn't, I think it would endanger two kids (ds1 has directly said if he shares a space with them he will harm them, one is ds2, and both kids have sen and go to comp the eyar after him).

but I simply can;t cut myself in three can I? I can;t risk ds3's school place and dh can;t be there in the mmornings every day so have no ideas.

No you can't so they have to provide transport surely.Dd had a statement already at the time of ds's transition review and so I made it very plain that I would be needing transport for ds as I would be transporting dd to school.
LIO said at the review I could have transport if I agreed the local placement but would have to provide transport if I pressed for a different placement.
I was pretty confident though that I would win at tribunal if I had too. Ds statement specifies 1 to 1 support at all times and details extreme challenging behaviour.
The SENCo at the transition review wasn't told of any of ds's less appealing behaviours or of his dislike of people in general. She was absolutely dumbstruck when I pointed out that if ds felt stressed out and chose to he would launch pupil or staff over the balcony if he felt so inclined.
Because of the specialist support ds isn't a danger to anybody in his present school though.

DS isn;t a danger atm ONLY becuase there is someone next to him all the time. Well, that person actually is getting lax and ds2 has had a bad time agin but it's better than it was.

there's a particualr child who has quite severe dyslexia though who sued to be friends with ds2; ds1 treated him so badly that he shakes when he even passes the house. He will need the SEN unit at the comp and ds1 happily says he will kill other child if they share but I don;t think LEA will put any store on that tbh.

if we don;t get ASD BAse I will try and insit on transport i think.

I find that LAs are very poor at passing on full information about a pupil, especially about behaviour. Most schools were just sent DS's Statement which at that time described very little (although it's better now since we've been to tribunal).

It's worth getting in touch directly with the schools yourself so that they're clear about what kind of difficulties they can expect from your child and to ask what strategies they'll use. Hopefully the schools will then be honest with the LA about whether they can really meet their needs.

I visited a lot of the schools that the LA wanted me to consider and I was honest about DS's difficulties and nearly all of them wrote back to the LA to say they couldn't meet DS's needs.

asdx2's strategy of mentioning an independent specialist placement is a good one - if the LA think you'll go to tribunal for that, they will bend over backwards to find a cheaper placement in county. I've heard of LAs offering to set up a brand new unit as an alternative to an independent placement. Even if you're not genuinely interested in an independent placement (it may mean residential depending on what's available where you are), it's a useful negotiating tool.

Will be using same tactic to keep ds in the same placement for sixth form .
I am fortunate in a way because nobody wants him. Generic special school can't handle his academic ability and mainstream school can't handle the severity of autism and the good old extreme challenging behaviour thrown in makes everybody wary.
LEA aren't communicating but I can argue the case for a need for a 24hr curriculum and will be suggesting either a Priory or Cambian group school if they um and ah over sixth form in his current placement.