IEPS, experts recommendations and notes in lieu

[Claw3]

(deleted my last thread, as i was giving away too much information) LA have refused to issue a statement and offered a note in lieu. Ds currently receives more help on his IEP, than what is written on the note.

My question is on ds's IEP 4 areas are addressed, it is smart and not bad as for as IEP's go. Then school lists 13 areasto be developed, which cannot be covered by the IEP and states these should come from statement objectives if there is one. What happens to an IEP if more difficulties/recommendations need to be added as the note in lieu is suggesting?

For example his IEP addresses anxiety, eating, motor skills and social skills.

The note in lieu is suggesting developing seven areas all to do with language, communication, social skills and play.

Also ds has various recommendations from professionals of 1:1. For example he received 15 minutes of 1:1 SALT twice a week. He is also receiving motor skills help 3 x times a week in school. 1:1 help at lunchtime. The school were giving him 20 hours of 1:1. This is not mentioned in the note, will this stop?

I don't think either one of a note in lieu or an IEP are enforceable in law, but I am no expert either. I think the idea of the IEP is that you should be able to have input into what it contains and so you should be able to bring the recommendations of the note in lieu into the decision process when the IEP is reviewed, and also be able to state your view that other parts of the IEP already in existance but not in the NOL should not be withdrawn. Sadly at the end of the day it will all come down to what the school are willing/able to do without the statement. I did see your other thread last night and know you are going to be going to appeal on this so hopefully you will be able to get this all formalised in the long run. Sorry they are putting you through this though, it sucks. However... if the school are unable to meet everything they have been doing and the additional parts of the note in lieu then you can use this at the tribunal as evidence that a statement is the only suitable solution to ensure he gets all of the help that he needs.

There is no reason an IEP only has 3/4 items on it - schools like to keep it that way, as it is more manageable for them, but if your ds'school has another list to develop anyway, then they could add them to IEP, make them SMART etc.

Dd1's IEP is about 50 pages long - it details each and every need she has, and also each and every bullet point for each and every national curriculum level/subject.

It is true IEPs aren't enforceable though, which as you know is why statements are necessary.

Did you see ly post on last head, about aiming for more provision than you want in the hope of LA settling for "less" ie what you actually want?
Might be worth aiming for SN school, so that LA can think they are making you settle for less by giving you a decent statement?

Thanks, looking through the bundle last night, i found advice from ds's new school, stating that he gets 20 hours. Im sure LA wrote to me stating their criteria for statementing was 15 hours (will have to check previous bundle)

I want to write to school and ask them whether they can meet all of ds's needs without a statement, but im scared just in case they say that they can! They have been very good and im worried that they wouldnt want to say that they cant meet a childs needs.

Hi Silver, to be honest i didnt take much in yesterday!

I definitely aimed high with what help i asked for. EP recommended that ds be best placed in "ASD friendly environment" which is again very vague, could mean a school with visual displays! School that ds attends has a ASD unit being built.

I have been very dubious about asking for a special school. a) i dont think he needs one and b) old school have already tried to convince everyone that i 'exaggerate' and that this is not too much 'wrong' with ds that good parenting wouldnt solve, i dont want to add fuel.

Last school i applied for statement without school backing on the grounds they didnt understand ds's complex needs and they agreed to assess, so it has been proven that they didnt understand.

This has been my down fall i think and why they are trying to fob me off with a note, as new school do understand.

I am now going to have to switch tactics, and go with needs are too much for school to meet from their budget, so really need school on side.

I suppose what i am getting at, is LA are relying on what old school are saying and i shouldnt waste my time on trying to prove them wrong?

Or do i have to prove them wrong in order to get a statement?

or focus on new school cant provide from their budget?

or both!

Focus on school can't provide from own budget. But make sure that's true - check with school and on LA website if they have anything exactly how much can be provided to child before Statement is needed.

Thanks Star, i started a list last night of recommendations.

School have even included things in his IEP, where difficulties were highlighted in reports, but no recommendations were made. I will be polite, as dont want to rock the boat too much if possible, but as you say tough if i do.

Must go, will make a start on this tomorrow, dp has invited a friend to dinner, must get out of my pj's and try to think of conversation that doesnt involve statements!

Givemesleep, im sure i have it writing that above 15 hours meets LA criteria. School were giving 20 hours, before all extra recommendations were made.

Star is right Claw. You have to focus on what a Tribunal would say. This means looking at what experts agree your son needs and whether this can be provided out of school funds.

The need for outside agencies or equipment is often key e.g. regular SALT or OT which schools could not be expected to fund.

You also have to remember as Agnes said, this isn't personal. The reality is that councils (our LA is £11m in the red and is planning huge redundancies) are running with MASSIVE deficits in their budgets, swingeing cuts are planned, there is very little money around. This affects their decision-making and they will use the money argument to make you feel bad - and to say no to everyone. But the lack of money is not your fault - you have to fight for what your son needs.

I think one of the reasons I wanted school to make the SA application for DS was so that I could have them confirm 'we can't support him out of our funds' - and they were only giving him 5 hours a week.

If school are supporting your application, I think you need to have that chat about how much of his needs they can realistically meet.

There is no way of avoiding the issue as it will come up at Tribunal.

Absa-fruitely Star!

School may have been giving 20 hours but the evidence must support that this is needed iyswim. In fact, them providing it implies that they can provide it without the need for a Statement so it actually kinda goes against you. Sorry for that, but I think your case is weakened by them providing so much help from their own resources because then the question is, why does he need a Statement? Not my question, obviously, but the LA's and a Tribunal's, obviously.

Now, if the school were funding it short-term on the basis that the Statement would provide for it long-term, fair enough. But you need to take it all step-by-step.

DS needs x, y and z.

He needs x, y and z x ? per week.

The evidence for him needing this is _ (quote, page reference, professional etc.)

Without it, would happen.

Then the important bit: the school can only provide ___ so the Statement is needed to ensure that ds gets all of the above.

claw one option might be to re write the note in lieu - ie treat it as a draft or working document and add in all the extra recommendations that have been left out and reference them to the reports - as suggested. If you ask the SEN admin officer to email a version they usually will and then add your changes in bold or different colour and share it with school and the LA. You could say that they seem to have left out some objectives and are they happy to add them to note in lieu as there are too many to go in IEP- so you look like you are being co-operative - you have loads of time to appeal if necessary. You can then say to school can they meet your version of the note in lieu from own resources. You can also send it to SALT or anyone else who is supposed to be providing something

Giveme is right some schools will put in more so if the school are prepared to do it then you are a bit stuffed unless they do it and its insufficient for your DS to make appropriate progress or they don't do it. There is a long wait list for SEND so you can appeal and there will be 6-8 months at least for them to have implemented the note in lieu before you get near tribunal so by then you will know if its been enough. What you do not want to do is not appeal as you then have to wait 6 months before you can ask for SA again. You can always say that if you are satisfied the note in lieu is working you will withdraw the appeal.

So I would draft a version of the note in lieu which is likely to worry the school. If the LA refuse to add anything to the note in lieu - or the school says they cannot meet your version - then you have the perfect reason to appeal.

Thanks guys, just phoned SENCO and told her i had received a Note in Lieu and asked her how she felt about that. She asked whether i was going to appeal and said that school would not be able to fund any one to one support without a statement.

She also said that she had received an email and apparently the panel had recommended social services. WTF?

The X early intervention team (EIT) provides a community care approach for young people who have experienced a first episode of psychosis. The EIT is based at X and covers the whole borough of X.

The EIT is an exciting collaboration between NHS Foundation Trust and Rethink. The early intervention team can offer a range of intervention including CBT for psychosis and family work. It is a small team which includes a social worker, occupational therapists, a Rethink support worker; psychologists, and a community psychiatric nurse.

This is where they want ds referred to? Apparently SENCO has had an email from the EIT team.

Thanks Star, sorry it has taken me so long to reply, i just been on the phone to sen sos and got a list of EP, SALT and OT in my area who will go to tribunal and booked them to assess ds. They are booked are up to late Feb 2011, if i lodge my appeal in 2 months, will this give me enough time before tribunal date?

Have also phoned CAMHS and asked them to put something in writing. She was very clear that ds has these difficulties because he has ASD and that i go to CAMHS to support ds with these difficulties and i am managing his difficulties very well.

Also asked CAMHS about the EIT and she said that they will not accept a referal as ds does not have psychosis.

Will write to school to ask them to put something in writing. They are encouraging me to appeal, but have not offered to help me with this! SENCO wants to wait until she has a copy of the note in lieu, EP and SALT recommendtions. I did say that SALT is recommending that ds receive a level of one to one in the classroom and she said that would not be possible without a statement. I offered to photocopy note in lieu etc, she declined (i can tell she thinks i am pushy and doesnt like it!)

Im feeling much more confident now and think i can cope with whatever they have to throw at me, but need to take you up on your offer in future if things get a bit out of hand Star, if thats ok?

Just complying a list of recommendations, does ds's new school have to follow recommendations from experts made in previous borough?

For example at old school in different borough, SALT recommended that ds have 1:1. New school are getting their borough SALT to assess ds. Should they follow previous borough's recommendations, until their SALT can assess?

They are recommendations Claw, and schools don't have to follow any recommendations (wherever they come from) unless they feel it is appropriate educationally and/or they have the resources to meet them.

Yes you have enough time for an appeal date. An appeal now would get a tribunal date for April?

Debs, yes sorry i didnt word that too well. I was hoping to write a list of all recommendations and then ask school how they plan on meeting ds's needs.

School have told me verbally NO one to one help would be available without a statement due to resources. Private EP recommends a high level of one to one. NHS SALT recommends A level of one to one in the classroom.

The note itself states that ds will need one to one support for social/play skills!