Is this really right and what can you do?

[SaliMali1]

I have a mum who is having a torrid time at the SEN assessment unit. He has only just started so it is early days.

She has been told by the assessmnet teacher that her child would not progress in mainstream and so he will have to go to the local SEN school.

Isn't it the parents choice where to send him? At least he should have a chance at MS.

what is an assessment teacher?

Isn't it a little premature making that sort of statement before the assessment is done? Is there a tie limit on the assessment?

The teacher who teaches the assessment unit has said this it is her report along with others will be key in him starting school.

sounds strange - teachers don't usually decide
Does the child have a statement?

no not yet but the county I am in NEVER usually gives them out only if the child is in a SEN school. Is that leagal?

She has a big big say as itis her who is assessing him in a pre school setting.

SaliMali1, with the utmost respect to you, you need to be careful about sharing information about children in your care on the internet. You are being given access to confidential information purely because of your role as a teaching assistant.

While I fully understand and applaud your conscientiousness with regard to the child in your care, I would be most upset if I thought the teachers or teaching assistants involved in my DD1's care were talking about them on an internet forum.

By all means investigate and ask questions, but at least attempt to cover the fact that this child is in your care. Ask questions in a more general way, or write it as if it were your child, for example, to distance yourself from the real life situation.

SEN Assessment Units exist to help get school right for children with complex SEN where the right placement isn't immediately obvious. The staff there get a very good idea quite quickly of what the best setting might be for a child.

Of course, the parents, in 99% of cases, can INSIST on a MS setting for their child, but they will realise (sometimes too late) that MS places are very easy to come by. 1:1 support is cheap, and many parents aren't knowledgeable about making a statement watertight, and their children can end up with very average provision. Some will have the benefit of sites like this, and have better statements with well quanitified provision, but this not common.

There are huge benefits for some children to be in a Mainstream setting with Mainstream peers despite being cognitively far behind.

There are huge benefits for some children to be in a Specialist environment (ie. a 'base' within a MS school, or a Special School).

What you can be absolutely sure of is that it is very unusual for a child to be offered a Special School place unless they need it.

DD1 is in a class of 10 children at her Special school. Of the new starters this year only one is coming from a Mainstream pre-school into the Special school. All the others have come from a SN nursery. The one child is DD1, and it is full credit to MN Special Needs: Children posters that she has that place. She wouldn't have it if I had listened to the advice of professionals who are involved in her care.

I would consider very carefully what is wisdom in this case. To well-meaningly suggest that the parents fight this suggestion without allowing the child to settle in the Assessment Unit and everyone consider what is in the child's best interests could strip them of a valuable educational resource.

Sorry, I have gone on a bit there, but I do feel very strongly about the matter.

It isn't legal for the LA to withold statements unless a child is at a Special School, but generally speaking, a child cannot attend a Special School without a Statement in England & Wales (Scotland is different).

What you are suggesting concerns me even more. It implies that you think the child would be better off at a MS setting, without a statement, than at a special school?

I know I am pushing the confientiality bit but there is no where else to go. I change my name regularly and never reveal where I am from.
Never thought about it from the paremts POV LOU thabks for pointing it out to me I will stop after this.
I just have a very anxious Mum who is so worried.

I know she wants for the time being top try him in MS I know that SEN school is very good in my area and it is very beneficial with good staff so does the child's mum but she is so desperate for him to have a try at MS and she loves his perspective school and knows the SENCO etc.

I keep saying that it is her decition what she wants to do with her son and that she must decide what she wants. I have never played 1 off agiast the other or anything like that.

has she talked it through with parent partnership?

no not what I meen at all ... I meen that the county I work for only gives statments to children if they attend a SEN school. This meens that on occation you are flying and all is well funding wise then suddenly it can be cut and hours dropped.

This child would need 1-1 support if he came to MS at all times.

parent partnership?

'the county I work for only gives statments to children if they attend a SEN school'
is that legal?

parent partnership

PP often work too closely with the LEA in question. I personally would not trust my PP as far as I could throw them!.

Parent in question needs to seek further advice from a fully independent organisation for instance SOS:SEN, ACE or IPSEA.

That's a good point Atilla - I've had good and bad experiences depending on who I have spoken to in P.P.

SaliMali, I can hand on heart say that I desparately wanted to my DD to be a 'Mainstream Kid'. I wanted to do the school run thing, the playdates thing, etc. Not because I thought those things in themselves were special, but because they are all a part of the package of being a Mum that you envisage when you are pregnant with your child. You see their lives ahead of them.

For DD1, sending her to Special School was the most loving thing to do. Spending all day with teachers and teaching assistants that are experts in dealing with a child like her. Spending all day in an environment where her strengths will be celebrated and her weaknesses dealt with.

For ME, sending her to Special School was a sacrifice. A letting go of the dream that one day she would magically be better. She won't. Her brain is fundamentally, structurally, functionally different to other children's brains. And it won't reorganise itself to become 'normal'. Ever. Just as someone with T21 will not suddenly, or ever, magically 'lose' the extra copy of the chromosome that makes their lives more challenging.

It is a hard, hard thing, to accept that not only does your child have SN, but they have SN severe enough to put them in the 3% of children in the school population nationally that have Statements of SEN. It is harder still to accept that your child falls into the 0.4% of children of her age that will need Specialist schooling. But not to do so would be failing my child.

If her child was to go to special school, and the special school felt he/she was too able for it to meet his/her needs, he/she would transfer into mainstream.

There are children in Mainstream for whom it has taken 3 years to organise transfer from MS to special school.

I suggest that if you truly want to help this parent, you direct them to the SEN Code of Practice, sites like this one, and get them clued up on the SEN process. Then, encourage them to be brave and open themselves up to all the options.

MS with support is an option. But it will take a lot of skill to get a decent statement, especially if your county is known for its reluctance to statement MS children (which is illegal, but that is another thread).

my old LEA had a habit of recommending Sn school because it was a bit more convenient, in some cases.

Before we moved (and this was all part of it, really), LEA was pushing for dd1 to go to SN school. problem was, the school was a PMLD school, and not suitable for dd1.

Other options were ASD unit (turned her down - part of the move to get her into the PMLD school) or MS (which might have worked, in one school, but only due to the Head there, who was close to retirement).

There is another MNer who had the same recommendation for her DS - the SN school was very good at what it catered for, but woudl not have been suitable for either dd1 or her ds (who, I believe, is now in a MS school and doing well)

so, unfortunately, sometimes LEA's do recommend on the basis of what they think they know (ie, old LEA were pushing dd1 into PMLD because she was unresponsive at pre-school. trouble is, it would have been a self-fulfilling prophecy for her, and she would have remained unresponsive at the SN school), coupled with not always having the right type of SN school place on offer (dd1 was caught between severe LD school, and a unit, who were keen to integrate into MS form day one. neither worked for her, and there was no other option)

Sali - to answer your question, no it isn't legal to issue statements in the way you decribe, and the parents do have the right to fight for wha tthey think will be right for their ds (they are also entitled to change their minds about this, but of course, the relevant place may no longer be available.)

We were recommended SS for ds - simply because there are 4 SS in out town that cater for children with ds' diagnosis & they really don't want them in MS - was utterly inappropriate for ds in every way imaginable (they almost admitted it too - offering me a place in one of the SS nurseries by saying it would provide respite but wouldn't help ds learn). Co-incidentally the diagnosis is up for 'discussion' again, having moved from certain to atypical and now query in a year (no great surprise to me, the diagnostic process was a joke - but their get out is that he was so young at diagnosis).

Silver they were pushing for a PMLD school for ds too (he was utterly non compliant & non responsive at all assessments) which I knew was total bollocks at the time & I have been proven to be correct. I'm horrified by the thought of what ds' life would be like if I'd paid 'expect' opinion the attention they thought it was worth

imo unless it becomes a child protection issue educational preferences must rest primarily with the parents (morally - I realise that in the real world it isn't that easy).

I have a child in MS, with virtually full-time 1:1, which was only obtained by taking our LEA to SENDIST Tribunal.

If it really doesn't work in MS, with the support and specialist teaching, then I will be going for a Special School placement.

I torture myself whether I am doing the MS school because it is best for DD to be with NT children or whether I am doing it to try to pretend that DD is NT - that is a very uncomfortable thought.

Lougle - no one has ever put it in to words as well as you - I know that I am grieving for the child and childhood that I thought my daughter would have when she was born - does the pain ever go away?

And then, when you expect help and support, you get the LEA from Hell to contend with!

Man, have I toughened up the past few years.

Salimali I am no expert,but the SEN Code of Practice is my bedtime reading and I am pretty certain that it is unlawful to only issue Statements for children going to SS.

The law says that unless a parent indicates that they do not want their child educated in a mainstream school, an LA must ensure that a child is educated in mainstream, unless that is incompatible with the efficient education of other children. If the LA believes that it would be incompatible, they must consider whether there are any reasonable steps they could take to prevent the child's inclusion having that effect.

So if the parent insists that they want their child in mainstream it's quite a legal hurdle for the LA to put the child in a special school (although of course many LAs simply flout the law).

DS is in a SN school now after his school and other professionals wrote that ms was no longer suitable - personally I was glad that they did and I knew that ms was failing him. I also relate to the experiences by phlebas and silverfrog, as our LA initially offered various other SN schools which were also unsuitable as their intake and speciality was in a completely different area of need. So I can understand both how ms can be unsuitable but the SN school offered can also be unsuitable.

Agree with lougle.

He doesn't have to go to a special school but the mother would probably do well to go and look at the schools on offer. DS1 was told he 'had' to go to mainstream school as he was at a mainstream nursery and no we couldn't go and look at special schools. This was of course utter rubbish and ds1 wasted 4 terms in mainstream before we managed to get him a place at the SLD school where he has done very well.

Hi Sali

When I queried choices with DD's nursery (attached to a primary school) I was told that it was the parents choice regarding which school to name on statement and that it was only if the school refused (ie because they could not meet a childs needs) that the parents choice of school would be refused.
Our story is Ed Psch suggested DD should go to an ASD unit attached to a mainstream school. I think his decision was based on the fact that she would not co-operate with him but to be honest I was sat there and his approach was not very child friendly. I have since found out he is a trainee and whilst I appreciate everyone has to learn somewhere I am angry that no-one overseen his observation. Speech therapist disagreed with his opinion and DD's primary teacher has always been adamant that DD belongs in mainstream school.
Anyway to cut a long story short like Phlebas DD's diagnosis is now "in query", however, there is no doubt that she does has speech difficulties and problems socializing with her peers but this is improving daily.
She started MS 3 weeks ago and seems to be doing incredibly well.

I would say that if a parent wants to send a child to mainstream they should maybe contact the school and see if they would be able to accommodate DC's needs and even visit the school and special schools to get an idea of where their child would fit.

Medical opinion is not gospel things do change but I think you have to be realistic and trust your gut feeling.