Am I expecting too much from DD school?

[Snozcumber]

HI folks,
My DD has just started year 1, in a small local village primary school on the Isle of Man. (Certain discrimination laws don't apply here) She has a diagnosis for Aspergers Syndrome, ADHD tendencies, hypermobility, multiple food intolerances/allergies, chemical intolerance and bladder weakness. The school deal with all this fabulously with the obvious hic-cough here and there which comes with something like Aspergers. My daughter can be quite a challenge, but my problem is that she is also extremely bright (estimated 3 years ahead by EP).

I am I expecting too much for the school to deal with all the problems she presents AND challenge her academically??

Please be honest but not brutal, it is just a totally honest question.
Thanks

That really is a difficult one. I'm very new to all this but I think being very ahead academically is very common in children with Aspergers isn't it.

It's obviously a very tricky balance that you and the school need to figure out. Have you spoken to the school about challenging her more yet? I suppose there is only so much time they can give to your daughter. Do you know of any other children at the same school with similar issues? :)

justabout-There really is only so much time they can give to one child. That doesn't meant that they can't be other experts brought in assuming that there is funding. I'm certainly not saying that she shouldn't be helped! I am going through something rather similar myself so can relate.

"I suppose there is only so much time they can give to your daughter"

I am sorry to say, that I strongly disagree with that statement. The school need to give your DD as much time as she requires to 'level the playing field'. If they can't do this out of their own resources, then she must go through the Statutory Assessment process to be awarded a Statement of Special Educational Need and individualised provision.

It is very common for children to be given an IEP for their SN and an IEP for their Giftedness, too.

Snoz - This is a hard one. Because it is possible that although your child is very bright, she finds just being in school enough of a challenge that she can't cope with being academically stretched as well.

She's only in Year 1, I really wouldn't worry about it now. Try to get her used to school and work on improving as many of her symptoms as you can.

School should know she is bright and differentiate her work accordingly - same as any other kid. If they're not you have to find out if it's because they haven't noticed she's bright - or because they think she couldn't handle it.

In the mean time you can 'stretch her academically' at home if you want.

These are all opinions aren't they? Like I said before i'm not saying you should except that if that is the case, i'm just saying it would probably be a bit of a battle as there really is only so much time somebody has and so much money in the pot, especially if your child is in a MS school. This doesn't mean you shouldn't fight to get it. Of course you should. I'm not saying that for one second. I certainly haven't been apologetic or stood back, justabout, I have made sure things are moving in the right direction as far as my daughter goes, as i'm sure we're all doing.

I agree with IndigoBell. A lot depends on whether your dd is able to cope with academic challenge at the moment.

My two with ASD just weren't ready for that until around Yr2 and upwards. It was only when they were able to manage things like sensory issues, difficulties with motor skills, social skills etc (with help from the school) that they themselves were able to start concentrating on the more academic side of school.

Obviously this is very different to a child being ready for a challenge but not getting one because it would be too much for the adults. It shouldn't be a case of having to just be grateful for help with the SN side and forget all about the academic side.

Agree with justabout. The SEN Code of Practice isn't opinion. It is fact. The SEN Code of Practice says that when a school can meet the needs of a child with SEN, they should do so - School Action. When they can meet the needs of a child with SEN with the support of outside agencies, they should do so - 'School Action Plus'. When they cannot meet the needs of a child with SEN without extensive support or resources, then the LA must provide for those needs in the form of a Statement of Educational Need.

My DD1 has SN. She was observed after 6 weeks of starting preschool. She was given 1:1 straight away. The LA inco was very nice, but she wanted me to wait until Christmas 2009 to start Statementing, and wasn't entirely sure that DD1 even should have that . The LA thought differently, and once they had the documents, they recommended Special School. If I had waited for the area inco, all the SS places would have been filled (she confirmed this afterwards, it is not just opinion). You can NEVER fight too hard for your child.

Have you had contact with these people? (sounds as 'good practice' as anything up until stage 4 :( )

Complaints to school and others here

This makes it sound like they should have decided what stage your dd was at before admission to school?

I hope you can fin someone to give advice...must be hard.

As the OP highlighted, DDA etc don't apply.

I think what I have said has been completely taken out of context. When I read what I posted back, I can understand why. I don't think I was very clear, but at the same time all I have heard so far from people is that it's going to be a very long and difficult road ahead and I should expect a battle.

I don't think I ever said though that you can fight too hard for your child. Not sure that's a fair comment actually if that was a response to my post. Hope it wasn't

Justabout-thanks for the information. If that is the case then that's very reassuring. Like I said before, i'm very new to all this and i'm only saying what i've so far been told. That doesn't mean however that i'm not going to do everything I can to make sure she gets what she needs.

My son started reception with a boy with no SEN but who happened to have a Reading age of 10. The school has had to make provision for his needs. My NT son is 2 years ahead of his classmates and is on the talented and gifted register and gets work to extend him. If your child had no Sen you would expect teachers to keep pace you should not expect less because does have sen. There is some government stuff on g&t ( although I hate that phrase) on D of E website. Americans call children who are both g&t and sen 'twice exceptional'. They are supposed to meet need at all ends of ability range. In fact I would argue because of the sen you have to encourage the strengths more and make them marketable and employable to counteract the sen. If they can give your child something to excel at which will enable them to get a job they should be pushing that. Temple Grandin famous HFA says the same you have to push the thing that will give the child the best chance of a future.

I'm not presuming that anyone would be trying to argue for the sake of it. Not my style on here or anywhere. I just would be mortified for anyone to think that I didn't think something like this was worth fighting for. I am obviously a little ignorant in this subject as, like I said, i've only just started the ball rolling myself. I just wanted to make myself clearer as I obviously didn't before.

I have to say, i'm very anxious about starting all this. One minute things are going along ok and the next it's like everything in your life has changed. It's very scary and i'm hoping i'll find the strength from somewhere.

Suzy, in my honest opinion, what you have seen on this thread is what makes the SN board amazing - people who are willing to say "Hang about, that's not right!" when other people quote or paraphrase or take on the statements of well meaning (or not so well meaning) health and education professionals who have been coached and restricted by the Local Authorities who either employ them or gatekeep the services they sign-post to.

If there is one thing to take away from this thread for your child, it is this:

-The SEN Code of Practice (SEN COP) is the fundamental document that all Local Authorities, Schools and Childcare provision must follow with regard to Special Educational Needs.

-No Local Authority has the power to disregard the SEN COP, nor has any the right to circumvent its requirements.

-No Local Authority has the power to make 'blanket rules' about the provision it makes for each child with SEN, and no LA has the power to restrict funding for children with SEN according to quotas, ratios or any other mechanism that avoids meeting the needs of those children.

-No Local Authority can say 'We don't do statements', and no school can say 'we only have so much time for your child, you know.' Each child's needs with SEN must be met. All SEN that a child has must be catered for. Anything less is a deriliction of duty of care for that child, and will only occur when parents of those children are spun enough yarn that they get tied up in knots.

There are hundreds of thousands of parents up and down the country that are being told things like "there are worse children than yours at mainstream without support...." "you are expecting too much", "you must be x years behind in y areas before a statement", and the like.

The real sadness is that for the most part, the professionals saying this truly believe that it is the case. Their LA has told them so. They have said 'this is the criteria, all else will be rejected'. They haven't read enough of the SEN COP to realise that it is blatently untrue.

Please don't think we were fighting you. We are fighting a system that stacks the odds far in favour of the LA, and far beyond that of parents.

If I had listened to the LA, my DD1 would be in a mainstream school with limited support. She needed full 1:1 in preschool, and even that was a nightmare for her, for the staff and for me. Thanks, largely, to this board, I stood up for her, and took over. The worst of it, is that the LA barely knew she existed, and once they had the paperwork, she was allocated special school without me even asking. It was the LA local inclusion officer that was blocking her path, as she thought she was 'young' 'immature', etc. No, she has a brain malformation

Justabout-It is a very difficult time. It's a rollercoaster of emotions and i've not really started yet.

I have to say before reading all this I felt like it was something that I was just going to have to accept and deal with, as far as her extra assistance was concerned.

I'm going to be putting her name down for several schools around the area, but even that has already presented challenges. I've left messages with health visitors and the Inclusion Support Service, but i've heard nothing. I know I need to be pushy, but I don't want to be put to the bottom of the pile for being too pushy. I know I have every right to be, but like we all agree, we'd do anything to make sure our child gets what they need and deserve.

Lougle-It's very interesting to read that too. May I ask in what sense did your daughter need 1:1 support at pre school. Was it to deal with tantrums, concentration etc. Obviously that's where I am now.

DD1 needed full 1:1, because of lots of things, really.

Her understanding of language was severely delayed, and she has very poor concentration, so she couldn't follow instructions without someone individually getting her attention and telling her what to do, then keeping her attention so that she'd actually do it.

She is hyperactive, so when she started preschool, they did a map of her movements, and in a 10 minute period there were over 100 movements across the room - just a whirlwind of activity without purpose.

She couldn't actively participate in activities, so would wander aimlessly without support.

She couldn't cope with the haphazard routine, so would get stressed and display this by running about disruptively.

She would have full-on meltdowns, dropping to the floor, kicking, screaming, they couldn't do anything with her.

She would run away if outside, escape the safe areas and flood the bathroom, or run into the kitchen, etc.

She is very wobbly and has no sense of danger, so would frequently fall over and injure herself.

She has poor fine motor skills, so couldn't get her trousers down/up for the loo, open yoghurt pots, pour a drink, etc. Her concentration difficulties meant that she needed someone to keep her at the table to eat lunch.

She couldn't sit at circle time, and couldn't sit for a story, so someone had to supervise whatever she was doing instead.

The list goes on, really.

Suzy, being pushy will not put you at the bottom of the pile. It isn't being agressive, it is being assertive. So phone, then phone again, then again. It is exhausting, but the only way. Consider yourself your DD's PA.

It does help. I guess i'm just going to have to be the "nightmare mum" if it helps her.

How is your son doing now?