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What is the point of a CAF/TAC meeting?

70 replies

KatyMac · 15/09/2010 11:39

How is it intended to work?

Is it of benefit? If so how?

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 07:34

Ah thanks givemesleepandsomerevenge

That's really kind of you roundthebend4, but tbh they are doing everything they say they are going to - I just don't agree with it.

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orsinian · 16/09/2010 10:29

mariagoretti advice is the best.

I've sat in with women accused of MSBP/FII and in every case the false accusation could be avoided had the 'victim' known it was coming, or likely to come. Being aware of the possibility is normally enough to avoid an accusation, you can be on your guard and take the suggested steps to avoid a false accusation.

In essence you can find yourself walking on eggshells with these people; the MSBP/FII mechanism is so easy to use that it is routinely abused by those inclined to employ it. But it needs a consensus of individuals to allow it to be employed against a woman. There might be no-one in the meeting inclined to employ it, but it only takes one to take exception against you and in the false allegation goes.

Presenting yourself as being critical of the suggestions made ("I see no evidence") is a fast-track to a false accusation. The nature of the use of the MSBP/FII false allegation regime is such that this is the most popular 'trigger' for it; being critical of service providers. The other trigger is if a woman comes over as too 'vulnerable' or 'needy' in which case the false allegation goes in just to satisfy a vindictive desire to teach a woman 'a good lesson'.

You might just have to simply nod dutifully, hold your tongue, put your brain into neutral (some of these people hate the concept of intelligent women) wear a wimple and accept that you have to run through the hoops and obstacles that your are presented with, if ultimately you get either what you want, or something useful. The key is to not say anything that might sound even vaguely out-of-turn, and don't dispute anything unless it is crucial for your cause.

If all this sounds bizarre, like it's advice lifted from the 17th century - then it is. The world of MSBP/FII is unlike anything experienced by women in the UK for centuries, and the false allegation regime has been in place until at least 1997. It is peculiar though to the UK - women in say the Spain or France or Sweden will never have to worry about such matters. In the US the false MSBP/FII regime is restricted really to divorce/allimony hearings.

It tickles me sometimes when I see a MumsNet discussion about going to Feminism in London 2010 or some similar event; the issues of how women are routinely abused by officialdom in these situation are NEVER discussed at these events, and some of the abusers will be those who profess themselves to be 'feminist'.

There is lots of good advice on the 'Net. Most of it though relates to women who run into the MSBP/FII false allegation regime with respect to Autism Spectrum Disorders. Nonetheless, the experiences of Janet Loxley-Blount are well worth reading.

KatyMac · 16/09/2010 11:17

May move to Sweden then - we have family there & would have support while we set up

Put up & shut up is not the easiest to do

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 13:32

No - it's no good; I really want to know why the head of the CAF teams name is doing in my medical records

Does that strike anyone else as odd?

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orsinian · 16/09/2010 13:36

Essentially, are you getting good or bad vibes from them?

if its good, i.e. they want to offer you this that and everything else and can't wait to suggest something good, then stick with it.

If it's not, i.e. everything is done with a huff and puff and a bit of a moan, and it all seems like its all too much of a burden for them...then beware.

You fit one of the MSBP/FII profiles (well actually it's nigh impossible for any woman with a child to not fit a profile); unusual condition in your child, perhaps unusual family setup, intelligent, questioning/critical of provision). I would be reluctant to say withdraw from the process, because you could miss out on something really useful.

It's similar to the situation with domestic pets. Take a cat or dog to the vet and you are fine. Take anything else, say a bearded dragon, then the vet rolls their eyes and gives you a look that says 'why didn't you just have a dog?' The same with these folk, they are trained through Working Together to Safeguard Children to look for anything, absolutely anything 'unusual'.

The current regime is to regard anything 'unusual' in a child, such as psychiatric conditions, ASD's etc, as being caused by mum. That's why EBP (Evidence-Based Practice) and EBR (Evidence-Based Research) are so disliked in the UK.

Sweden is perhaps the most extreme example going the other way you could find; EBP/EBR is widely used, and Swedish professionals view their UK peers as if something smelly in on the sole of their shoes. The Fran Lyon scandal (she scarpered to Sweden) of 2007 is a great example.

KatyMac · 16/09/2010 13:41

Yes but it's one of the few places I would have family support and DD could intergrate into the school system fairly easily

Whether they would recognise my qualifications a they are into pedagogy at this age range - however my job appears to 'at risk' anyway

They are removing everything I put I place to help DD

So what do I write to take with me?

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orsinian · 16/09/2010 13:55

Write a summary of what you are going to say when it is your chance to speak.

Say it aloud a few times for practice.

Be brief - brevity is always appreciated

Individually thank the persons involved, whether they are there or not - they love praise, the same as anyone else does.

If you bring along any research papers or anything academic, don't take too much - smartalecs are not appreciated. Make it clear though you have some insights into D's condition.

Lay out the strategy you would like followed, but try to incorporate some of the suggested strategies that others have suggested, even if you disagree with them. That way it becomes difficult to unpick which bit they want discontinued, as later on in the process, they will have forgotten who suggested what.

Try to use the same vocabulary they use. This is tough, but you might be able to pick it up from submitted reports and correspondance.

If you have an ally in the meeting, don't overuse them; they will be classified as having 'gone native' by the others.

Never interrupt, even if what is being said is%oll_ck$!

Ensure that at the end a summary of steps to be taken and who responsible for each step, and the timeline is detailed by the chairperson.

At the end ensure everyone is thanked for their assistance and attendance.

KatyMac · 16/09/2010 14:01

Sorry orsinian, they are not doing anything, they have removed all of DD's support, stopped me getting help for her from a charity, asked me not to claim DLA, suggested CBT for me and told me not to seek any further medical advise for DD

I can (I suppose) agree with all that but I will be furious if DD falls/is pushed/is hurt as a result

I won't stop her drumming or singing/piano lessons no matter what they say

I don't have any insights in to her condition; I just can't understand how ignoring it will help

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 14:17

I have this - is it too negative?
"During the holidays DD has appeared happy and bubbly. She seems to enjoy Drumming, music lessons & socialising with her friends although she misses joining in with Look activities. She hasn?t read, or participated in any ?close work? although she enjoyed a drama summer school and several dancing events. Her sight seemed to remain at the level it was at the end of last term.

Whilst on our family holiday she struggled with the new environment and often bumped into things or got ?lost?.

As a return to school approached she has seemed more and more anxious and she has showed fear of attending school and frustration that she must attend. She has reported to her Grandmother that she is ?always? being teased and that she hates it. Her sight has also been observably worse, although not as bad as it was in March, it seems definitely worse than it was in July."

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orsinian · 16/09/2010 15:20

Then I don't know what to suggest. The risk though is clear; the withdrawal of support may simply be for economic reasons. Push for their resumption and you run the risk of a false MSBP/FII allegation to get you to go away or shut-up.

I know what loss of eyesight is; I have suffered the same briefly during a migraine 'aura', and I know of someone who had a food allergy that resulted in the same, and it took ages to find the compound that caused the problem.

There may be value in considering a move, but don't say; 'medical shopping' is amongst many MSBP/FII profiles.

KatyMac · 16/09/2010 16:31

Well I'm going to have to make a decision what to take soon

The CBT lady says it was immediately obvious I wasn't in the same place now as I was in July

I suggested that medication might have helped at the time

She says CBT might have done too but that they had no appointments but that I don't need it now

So will they suggest I see someone else tomorrow I wonder? (I have kind of pre-empted this by arranging some counselling on my terms - privately)

I am at a lost as to how to deal with tomorrow

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justaboutawinegumoholic · 16/09/2010 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatyMac · 16/09/2010 18:14

What you mean even if I don't

Hmm whatever - I do think now she has non-organic sight loss now & I do agree with "But look, can we please chat about the treatment because I really don't understand why you are taking this approach, it looks counter-productive to me, it's harming her in the following ways, can we please try to agree on what is best for my child?"

They are expecting something written from me & I am completely undecided what to take

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 19:56

I do know what you are saying I just doubt my ability to apologise & look like I mean it; I mean I'm not that good even when I do mean it

But I do get what you mean, she has got non organic sight loss now.

But I need to be honest, just not too honest

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 20:53

& my dad can't get back from Northampton Sad

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mariagoretti · 16/09/2010 21:23

Can you 'not' apologise, more explain how you tick.

Eg for me, I would say, "I've always been someone who tends to be right, and I usually need a lot of convincing evidence to make me go against my instincts. You've done a good job of explaining why you're likely to be right about x, despite my initial scepticism.

I need you to help me see why you think you're right about y, because my own instincts are saying we should be taking a different approach."

So they'd be my words, and they'd work for me because they're truthful and avoid an apology. What would suit you?

KatyMac · 16/09/2010 21:25

That's good - it's similar to this it I wrote:
"When my aunt was diagnosed with cancer, my dad with a slipped disc, my brother with rheumatoid arthritis, I immediately went on line to find out causes, prognoses, treatments; all of which I have found however I have no written evidence that the course of action which has been decided upon is standard or effective. It goes against all instinct and in fact the evidence proves the opposite to be true, which can be seen by my evidence, that of my father and independent evidence provided by TJ"

But it's better - Thanks

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 21:27

Is it worth saying I haven't had the minute of the professionals meeting - or am I asking for trouble?

I'm not going to ask why the CAF wrote to my GP - I think that is too big

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KatyMac · 16/09/2010 21:50

OK to take each point on the list:

Conversion disorder This should now be referred to as Non organic sight loss. It isn't over DD is back to saying it is as bad as it was in March; although it demonstrably isn't that bad, it is worse than it was in July.

I don't understand the current plan for treating DD. I usually need a lot of convincing evidence to make me go against my instincts and beliefs. I need you to help me see why you think you're right about 'ignoring it', because my instincts are telling me that supporting her provided better results.

Eneuresis ? No longer present

DH ? about to be admitted to Papworth for 2 weeks treatment

KatyMac ? saw CBT lady Yesterday. She assures me I do not need CBT. I may have benefited from it back in July but it was not available. I feel I would have been better served by anti-depressants & more general counselling.

DD & the bus ? this is working fine despite current levels of sight (friend collecting here from home & drop her off)

Sailing ? DD has been concentrating on her music so no sailing has been done

Teasing ? DD is reporting ?always being bullied?

Boredom at school/lessons at school ? Still an issue

DLA ? DD has been awarded DLA; I have spoken to them several times & each time I have been assured that we are entitled to the money. It is need based and not diagnosis based & unless DD is suddenly psychologically ?better? 100% they are not planning on changing their decision.

These are more notes for me - reading the form everything is due to end tomorrow with DD getting no more support as she can see......but she can't see

So I either go along with everything and get it closed or make a fuss - gee what a choice no support or no support & hassle

HE looks very attractive just about now

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justaboutawinegumoholic · 16/09/2010 22:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bigpants1 · 17/09/2010 00:01

Hi. Agree with above-dont mention the DLA-that is between you and the DLA.
I have been following your posts,and it seems to me, that you are being bullied by this team of "professionals", who, cos you didnt at first agree with their dx, used their position and influence to get you to accept it, and "put you in your place."
Although there is clear guidance that profess. and parents shouold work in partnership, some of these profess. are dinosaurs, and still of the opinion that they are "gods" and not to be questioned.
I do find it concerning, that you were ordered to have CBT-was there a consequence if you didnt?
Make an appoint with your GP-or another in the practise if the one you usually see is being unhelpful, and ask why the head of the CAF team is sending info on YOU to your GP and not your dd.
This team is making their presence felt in every area of your life, and I DONT think MBP is a red herring. I would be VERY cautious of what you say at the meeting, your demeanour, and DONT give any info on future plans/people you might see etc.
Remember, they have stopped a charity from working with you, sent you for CBT and written to your GP. You can be sure, they will speak to the school.
Im not in any way saying you have done anything to warrant any of this, but, IMO, the teams focus is now on YOU and not raelly your dd.
Keep calm at the meeting, nod in all the right places. Politely request the minutes from the Profess. Meeting.
Seriously consider gaining ALL info and reports written re your dd since her condition started under the FOI Act-inc. GP notes etc. All info. you get, should contain e-mails and phone calls. This way, you can see exactly who is saying what and to whom.
Apologies for length of reply, but there is something "not right" here.
Let us know how you get on.

KatyMac · 17/09/2010 07:13

Sorry I went to bed

DLA is an action point so I doubt I will get away without mentioning it

Can I ask - if I needed CBT 10 weeks ago & I "quite clearly don't need CBT" now - what benefit would it have had?

The meeting is at the school Bigpants

I may wait until the CAF is closed to request information tbh

I think no support no interference is the way to go - I my parents can buy in support as necessary

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justaboutawinegumoholic · 17/09/2010 07:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatyMac · 17/09/2010 07:40

Well they felt strongly enough about it they contacted my GP about it - which seems a bit off to me

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KatyMac · 17/09/2010 07:45

It is phrased as "strongly recommended by professionals involved" so apart from the contact with the GP it's only a recommendation.

I'm not going to make much of anything in the meeting - I'm going to keep my head down agree with everything & get it closed. I can't see it helping at all unless they decided to re-instate some support for her.

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