Wetaugust, Star, Debs, Agnes and all your other statement genuis's

[Claw3]

I was due to receive panel's decision on 25th August and have now been told timescale is 5th October. Timescale has been broken for EP assessment and report which they are saying they could not do due to school closure (Lougle has already told me that they cannot do this and given me the relevant SEN COP) I will be writing to them but my questions are:-

Is a 'panel' qualified to make educational provision for a statement, without an EP assessment/report?

If EP report is not available, who and how would decide what provision is needed?

For example if all reports submitted by me recommended a high level of support, but are vague and not specific about what support is needed.

The EP should be able to do a home assessment. As I understand it, EP advice is one of the compulsory parts of the Statement, unless they've already done a prior assessment that can be used.

The panel will probably make a random decision with or without the EP advice and would probably look at school's advice if they didn't have the EP advice. No, panels aren't qualified to do anything but everyone seems to have them!

I think that most reports are quite vague about level of support as most LA professionals aren't allowed to specify .

Givemesleep, thanks. I will get onto the EP who is going to assess, to find out what assessments she plans to do.

The EP assessment doesnt make any sense.

She has already observed ds in July for an hour during his dx process. She was also present at the meeting afterwards to discuss what help he needs in school, as a result of which the ASD team wrote to the LA making recommendations.

Im

Must dash off to the cinema, will check back later any advice is most gratefully received. Thank you so much

They like to get their own EP assessment and the EP for the school which they use may have been on annual leave.
Assessments will include all the tests that were done by your private EP probably.

Wassup, it is the same EP who the LA/school use (they have named her), she is part of the core ASD team. She observed ds for an hour on the 23rd July and took part in the multi-disciplinary meeting after the observation to discuss what recommendations would be made.

ASD team (which she is part of) then wrote to the LA, with what recommendations the team were making. ASD team list her name and job description in ds's dx report and the fact that she is a core member of the ASD team.

ASD report reads:-

"Diagnosis was based on the following assessments:-

1. A observation/play session at the Child Development Centre on 23rd June, followed by a multi-agency meeting with Mrs Claw3 and the core team members of the Autism Assessment Service; Dr X, SALT and Mrs X EP. Also present were SENCO and CAMHS"

So doesnt that mean that she has already assessed ds?

Sorry im really by it all, it doesnt make sense!

Hope the above makes sense to anyone reading

If what happened in our case is at all standard, what the EP did was to do a number of standardised assessment tests on speech/language, literacy, numeracy and the like and use the results in conjunction with reports from school, parents, paed etc as well as an interview with Senco and parents to write her report. So despite her having observed your DS it probably doesn't count as the kind of formal assessment needed for statementing process. Mind you there's no reason she can't do these tests at your home.

Thanks Niminypiminy, i suppose on a positive note, as least the EP cant disagree with the recommendations that have already been made, as she was part of them!

The observation and assessment process's are different. Assessment involves doing those tests again that your private EP did.

She needs to give your ds a cognitive score in other words rather than just observe him

Thanks Wassup, so she has to do formal assessments and not just observations?

Yes and she can do the same ones your private EP did as it was longer than 6 months ago.

The LEA like to know a child's cognitive score or profile.

Wassup, doesnt his cognitive score (IQ) remain the same, well pretty much forever?

The LEA like to have their own results from the LEA EP.

Wassup, thanks for your time and patience.

So are EP assessments compulsory in statementing process?

Bit confused Givemesleep says above it is a compulsory part of process, but that panel can decide without EP assessment based on other info.

My head is in a whirl, trying to work out what role an EP plays in all this!

Yep, our LA EP argued with our private EP at tribunal against the slightly different results of the cognitive tests. Our private tests came out higher and the LA EP wouldn't accept it! (I think DS was much more stressed at the LA EP's assessment and was less co-operative, hence the lower score.)

Not all LA EPs do cognitive scores though, it depends on the child's profile and whether it might come up as an area of dispute. I know parents who have never had their statemented child's IQ tested at all.

I think the panel do have the final say in what provision is given. I think they see their role as interpreting the various report findings and making it as cheap as possible. They can pluck recommendations out of thin air and dismiss recommendations from their own EP (refused to put in a laptop/handwriting support in DS' statement when both the LA and private EP said it was needed). The number of hours of support given in our final statement wasn't taken from any reports (and was far too low compared to the all the advice given).

Claw, it's the Psychological (EP) advice that is a compulsory part of statementing. The cognitive tests are often made as part of the EP's assessment, but not always.

Have a look at the SEN Toolkit guidelines for writing advice (for EPs) - it's p. 23 of Chapter 8. It tells you what an EP should include in their report.

It says it should include information on "cognitive development including reasoning and problem-solving skills" but it doesn't insist on the use of cognitive tests - some children can't be tested due to lack of co-operation/speech etc. An EP could get more general information through discussions with school.

The EP could probably write their report based on existing information/knowledge without doing assessments with your child, but it would probably be more watertight they did a full assessment.

Sugar, i didnt apply for a SA for lack of academic progress, so not sure if this would be an area of dispute.

Just trying to figure out what the LA's angle is on this, if their own EP assessment is not compulsory. I am assuming, if not compulsory they are hoping to gain something, in their favour, not ds's.

It could be that they're insisting on an EP assessment taking place in school time because it drags out the assessment stage of SA (it's not really allowed by law but probably makes them sound reasonable in the face of complaints about timeline). Prolonging the process always saves them money.

Our LA EP assessment took place during the summer holidays (we went to LA offices but she offered a home visit as well). She also got some information from the school as soon as term started and added it into her report.

I agree with sugar that the EP could probably have provided the necessary report for the Statementing process based on his/her previous knowledge of your DS.

Ours did no cognitive testing at all - just had a chat with him for less than 5 mins. I woudl have thought that the hour the EP's already had would have been sufficient

Also, EPs are like any other Council worker and don't 'close-down' for 6 weeks summer break.

The EP will give his/her recommendation for a suitable school or suitable support.

As for all the 'panel' nonsense.

It's well known that it's the Education Officer within the LA who actually makes the decision on what support gets written into the statement and also on the suitable school placement. What actually hapens is that they tend to make the decision-making process sound as though it's being done by a panel - which is rubbish. the Panel can advise but the ultimate decision is that of the education Officer.

That's worth bearing in mind.

As for waiting until Oct - I'd be on the phone to the Education Officer telling them that i expect the EP's advice to be available 5 days after start of term - if not before and threaten to make a formal complaint about unnecessary delay.

Best wishes

Thanks Sugar, i plan to write to them about the timescales and SEN COP etc and ask why they have not complied with it. Seems like there is not much else i can do and it wont change the 5th October date, just a matter of keeping a record of it.

Its so frustrating, especially as they wrote to me on 30th July informing me the papers had been passed to the 'panel'.

Seems like something has happened in between to make them now want an EP report.

Hi Wet, x-posted with you.

Perhaps they havent even realised that same EP has already observed ds and recommendations were made with her agreement (albeit vague ones).

I plan to phone her back on Tuesday, then follow it up with letter i already have drafted.

As I said in my last post - ignore the 'panel' . tell the Education Officer the responsibility is hers and that the SENCOP states the decisioon should not be unnecessarily delayed.