SO FRUSTRATED I want to shout at my toddler - speech - anyone recommend a therapist in London?

[Gilliana1]

Sorry if I have to let off some steam here. I'm so frustrated with my 21 month toddler (bless her .. not her fault.. but it is getting to me). She has never spoken a word that we recognise. She babbles and she says Hello (well we know it is hello but she says "Adoo"). So my day is spent being led around the house by her and she points to what she wants and I guess. If I guess wrong she throws herself on the floor and tantrums until I guess right. If I'm busy and won't let her lead me she tantrums. I try naming things until I am blue in the face, I say 'do you want an apple, ok, an apple, just ask ummy for apple' etc etc.

I think we need help. I'm on the NHS waiting list to see a speech therapist but they say that the waiting list is big and we won't see anyone until 2011. I'm so frustrated and tearful about it all to be honest. Am home alone with her and now when I take her to all the toddler groups people keep commenting that she doesn't speak any words and I find myself lying about her age.

Can anyone recommend a good speeech therapist in London (South East? or Central?). I've done some web research but not sure what I should be looking for. Also, I just know she won't even babble if new person in the room as she is VERY clingy and shy.

Have a look here help with talking It's how I found my SALT, who I would recommend but she now lives in LA! Don't panic too much, I know it's frustrating for you, but your DD is still very young.

I can recommend quite a few that my DS has seen on the NHS (who work privately) but we are SW London so not sure if that's helpful or not?

Thanks. Would love the names of the SW london ones if you think they are good. It is going to be so expensive and really want to find someone that we feel was valuable and has some good suggestions. Thanks.

21 months is a difficult age - it is a little on the late side for talking but still very young.Do you feel she is generally communicating well in other ways - that she points for interest and that she follows your verbal and non verbal communication ? Sorry if this is not relevant but I think most SALTS you contact will ask about this sort of stuff so you need to get a profile put together of how she communicates.

Hi thanks willowthecat. She is communicating, she points at things (like if we put her cuddly penguin upside down or in the car seat she would point and laugh). If I ask her to 'find her shoes' she will go and bring them. If she sees a dog when in the buggy she points and babbles and she laughs at in the night garden etc. She doesn't obey any commands in terms of 'leave it, no, wait' - but that may just be lack of discipline rather than understanding as she has a 'I'm being naughty look' a lot when throwing things etc etc.

One things (not sure if normal in 21 month olds) but whenever we are go to anywhere new, or strangers talk to us she clings onto my legs and peeps through and won't let go. Or hand holds and tries to climb up my leg to get a lift up. Very clingy. Not sure this has anything to do with speech though but just to paint the picture.

That all sounds pretty normal - the only advice (other than getting a SALT) is to not allow her to take you by the hand to take you to objects etc, don't make an issue of forcing her to say words for the sake of it but once she realises hand dragging is not working, she may start to use more words to get your attention. My DS has serious issues with speech but even for him, this worked !

So you think I should not let her take me by the hand and lead me to the kitchen (for example) for a biscuit etc. She does that about 50 times a day.. leads me and puts my hand on the cupboard she wants (i.e. biscuit, paints, drink etc). If I don't let her lead me she tantrums on the floor. Should I just let her tantrum? Help.

Do you think she understands you ?

Can you ask her to get things for you, and if you ask her something totally out of context does she understand ?

I would agree with the other posters in that 21 months is still very young, but I know exactly how you feel, I have even lied to random strangers about his age too

No, I wouldnt do that.

If she cant get what she wants from you her mother, who is with her all the time, how frustrating would that be for her ?

I think thats a big positive btw, she is taking you to see something she wants and you are getting it for her. Thats communication.

Have you tried baby signing ? or even just making up little signals. I went to Tiny Talk classes for a while ( but then gave up when it was apparant he was the oldest there and still not talking) but it gave us a mechanism to communicate which we still use now.

Hmm - a very difficult situation. Most people will tell you that leading by the hand is a common sign of an ASD disorder though I think it probably happens in all forms of communication delay (even if not autism). You could try a picture board as a half way house solution - make her point at what she wants on the board -even if you have to do it hand over hand for her at first ? You should also check that she can ' get shoes' without any visual clues as said above.

My Ds didn't speak a word until he was about 26 months old. I used to tell epople that he did, but the SALT (they have one who visits a local group - just for reassurance and advice - DS was referred through them)told me that they were not words (I am a trained linguist, but it's EASY to over compensate for you own child and interpret for them)

he had a few sessions of SaLT, but really just came on anyway around that time. His speech is now amazing, he can TELL people anything he wants to.

What REALLY helped us to reduce the number and frequency of tantrums for me not understadning him, was baby signing. The group was VERY friendly, ds picked up signs fairly quickly, and still uses them now if he is especially stressed etc. he felt better cos I was understadning him, adn I felt better cos I could understand what he wanted

(he has very idiosyncratic learned blocks of language though, which are not what one would expect in terms of language development, and cannot answer many abstract questions etc, etc etc etc, but that's a different story)

Gilliana1 -re:handtaking. for the moment, don't stop her doing that, but at the same time model a better way of asking for things - encourage her to point, if necessary taking her hand and doing it with her hand and/or sign with the word - so that you are encouraging her to communicate more, even if it's just a grunt or a "bibi". I'ld only not allow the handtaking when you are sure that she has got the hang of asking in other ways.

some good sites:-

www.ican.org.uk
www.afasic.org.uk
www.teachmetotalk.com
www.hanen.org

some good books

baby talk by Sally Ward
the Parent's Guide to speech and language problems by Debbie Feit
you make the difference by Ayola Manolson
It takes two to talk by Ayola Manolson

This is the entry on the "helpwithtalking" website for the lady we use - I am very very pleased with her help. She is based in Petts Wood which is South East London/Kent area.

Mrs Kathryn Murrell (ORPINGTON Kent BR5) - Less than 5 miles / 8 km - On-site visit possible
01689 870681 Mobile: 07773 935490
[email protected]
I work with 0-11 year olds with speech or language delay/disorder or stammering and am trained in the Lidcombe Program for stammering. I have a particular interest in assessment and report-writing for children who are being statemented or whose case is going to tribunal. I am experienced in language disorder and dyspraxia in particular. I am willing to see children in a variety of locations although I mainly work from home which is a relaxed atmosphere with lots of toys. Most of my therapy is during school hours as I have 3 children of my own.

pointing is great- really good sign. Does she recognise pictures? If she's pointing well I would be tempted to put together a laminated sheet of pictures of the things she usually requests to cut down on frustration.

We used Kathryn Murrell as well - many many years ago (in erm 2001!) Beautifulgirls I would ask you to say hello to her but she won't know who saintly is. If you tell her a 2 year old boy, name beginning with A, later diagnosed with autism and we moved to Devon she might remember. She was lovely and very reassuring. I think she held me together tbh.

Hi, my DS2 is not talking at all yet at 19 months, although he has a couple of signs. He sounds pretty similar to your DD.

He has been referred to SALT simply because his older brother has been diagnosed with an ASD, but I genuinely believe he is absolutely fine. When DS1 was wee, people commented on his silence - DS2 babbles. DS1 pointed to things he wanted - DS2 points to tell us about things he is interested in, things he wants, to ask what/ where something is - loads of communication.

I think that under two it is tricky to get SALT - I know for sure DS2 won't be seen until he is 2, but I'm happy with that as I am so convinced he is completely NT. (But not LAZY, if one more person says that to me I shall kill them with mind bullets, oh yes. BABIES ARE NOT LAZY!! /end hijacking rant)

Hi
My DS2 didn't say a single word until he was 2, he also didn't ever point, so I can definitely appreciate the frustration.
At nearly 4 he now talks ok, but still terrible tantrums...
Anyhow,
I had a friend who paid for private SALT for a 2yr old who didn't talk (But did communicate by pointing, lots of babbling etc) and it turned out that he thought that to talk you had to talk in sentences. Once his mum started talking to him in single or double words eg 'shoes' or 'get shoes' instead of 'can you find your shoes please' he realised he could talk back in single words and started talking.

i feel your pain, DD is 3.10 and can't speak, she also looks 6. Her frustration is immense. I wouldn't feel you have to lie about her age though, 21 months is still little and it sounds like her understanding and pointing are good so she will get there.

Will do Saintly, hopefully she will decode it!! Will be back there in September now. I have been so thrilled with the help she has given DD and we have been going to her for 3.5yrs now.

Thanks so much for the recommendation for Kathryn Murrell. In fact only 20 mins drive for me and I'd rather do the journey for someone recommended on her then try and find someone out of the blue. Can you tell me how much she charges?

Am trying the laminate card thing with drink/biscuit on it etc to try and reduce the dragging by hand thing. Not going well but early days. Thanks for the advice.

Glad others can share the frustration - makes me feel better that I'm not alone. Have been listening intently to her babble and communication skills.. I do think she is desparate to communicate but have noticed a few things.. never makes eye contact... only babbles when background noise on or hubbie and me talking.. if room quiet she is quiet. So am now playing nice classical cd to her (as we speak) and she is running about talking to all the fluffy animals!!!!

You need help if you want to set up pecs (rather than just pointing).

I saw kathryn in 2001/2 so prices will be well out of date.

Let me know if she decodes it beautifulgirls. :o if she does you can tell her that ds1 is still non verbal but communicates well using makaton and pecs and is generally a happy boy who likes surfing and horse riding! :) I can picture him now walking round her house as a little 2 year old.

Just thought I would update you all. Got a last minute appointment with a speech therapist (she was going on hols and could do same morning!). She said my 21 month definitely not acting like she should. In one way it is a relief for someone to recognise this and in another way I was hoping for the 'oh, don't worry all seems fine and she is just a bit of a late talker'.

She has identified that my toddler VERY self absorbed and in her own little world and does not need Mummy or Daddy to 'play'. Plus her babble not normal babble.

Step one is apparently hearing tests. Having these tomorrow now. I dont know whether to hope they find something fixable.. or whether to hope all normal but then we are looking at an ASD. . Guess hoping won't help. Just feeling really overwelmed by the whole thing and still blaming myself that am a bad parent and if I have been a better parent she would be ok.

Please don't worry about your parenting - that cannot affect whether your child is ASD or not. TBH, You are really on the ball to be picking this up at 21 months so it sounds like good parenting to me.

Oh just noticed someone else used the on the ball saying or cliche ! Great SN minds think alike.