Has anyone's child successfully been statemented despite achieving well academically? (long)

[moosemama]

Well, having just typed out a massive post - twice, then tried unsuccessfully to cut it down, I ended up cutting and pasting it into a Word document and filing it as notes for what is currently going on with ds1 and school. It was effectively was a furious brain dump that none of you really need to know all the detailed ins and outs of in order to advise me on what I need to know.

It is still ridiculously long, so I apologise in advance and thank anyone who manages to get to the end.

Basically, I have been up since 3 am and dh joined me at 5 am, unable to sleep because of an incident at ds1's school yesterday where he was told off for getting upset at a change in timetable which cancelled his beloved ICT lesson (for the third week in a row and the second time this week). They didn't break it to him gently or in advance, when it came to ICT time they just sort of said 'right, no ICT today, we are going in the hall to do singing instead'.

Ds got very upset, his teacher was off sick - again (she's not done a full week for the last half a term) and the lady taking the class told him off for being silly - he got more upset and she shouted at him, then another teacher who has nothing to do with him got involved, shouted at him and threatened to make him do extra work in her class unless he stopped crying - he was hyperventilating fgs!

The school know he has a verbal dx of ASD and that he needs advance notice of timetable changes. Not only that, they are supposed to be carrying out a programme to improve his negative associations with school and boost his low self-esteem at the moment.

We have been assured by both the head and other parents who know her, that his teacher next year is very experienced and also has experience of children with ASD in her class. She is also quite strict and will not stand for the awful behaviour of the bullies in his class who his current teacher has been unable to control (even during lessons). BUT we are no longer willing to leave it chance and feel we have to apply for Statutory Assessment at this point as his daily life at school is being seriously compromised, as is mental and even physical health.

The thing is, ds's achievement is high. He is just going into year 4 and is at level 3a for Reading and 3b for Literacy and Numeracy. I'm concerned that they won't see his problems as serious enough to warrant additional support. That said, he has for the first time ever not progressed at least two subsets this year, as he was at level 3c when he came out of year 2 and has only progressed to 3b. He has always progressed well in previous years and I can't help thinking this is the start of a downward slide, as he struggles to cope with the type of work they do in class in the Juniors, despite doing really well in tests and assessments. Apparently he tested at 3a across the board but his teacher's assessments lowered his grade due to the poor quality of his classwork.

He does have problems with self-management/organisation and we did think he might have poor fine-motor skills resulting in terrible handwriting and presentation, but having looked at his books from year 2 last night, we realised that his handwriting was lovely in year 2 and has seriously deteriorated this year, so we are thinking that the issue is not fine motor skills but more to do with a completely disrupted year.

He struggles to organise himself and this causes him a lot of problems at school. He cannot remember to bring things home or hand them in, despite taking a daily checklist and my writing lists in his home/school diary on a daily basis and despite having a lot of knowledge, he doesn't seem able to organise it properly to inform his classwork.

Obviously social and communication issues are also at the fore, both with his peer group and interaction with teachers.

Other than that, we have been told that he struggles to concentrate in class and invariably fails to complete tasks, as he spends a lot of time staring into space rather than starting the work and then rushes to get it all done in the last 5 minutes.

So, what are our chances of him actually getting a statement for these problems? I know they probably seem minor to a lot of people, but they are seriously affecting him and I feel that he is on a downward slide academically now as well and this slide is likely to gather pace as the workload increases and gets harder.

I have heard people say that unless the child is X number of years behind academically they won't get a statement. I know this is not 'allowed', as its a blanket policy, but am aware that it does happen. Are we likely to come up against this sort of attitude and if so, how do we deal with it?

Also, if we apply, get turned down, appeal then get turned down, can we re-apply or is that it? I ask because he currently has a verbal dx of ASD, but will not be getting his Multi Dip assessment until around April 2011, so other than the verbal dx given by the Paed we saw initially (who has now discharged him to the Multi-Dip team) and the GP who saw him for anxiety, we have no support from any health or educational professionals and no paperwork or reports to back up our claim.

Again, thanks to anyone who made it this far.

Your ds's problems are not minor at all

My 6 year old ds has a dx of autism, private EP identified he has an advanced reading, spelling age and a very high IQ potentially putting him in the 'gifted' bracket.

However he has speech delay, social and communication, self care, eating, handwriting, soiling, eating, organisation skills, motor and sensory, anxiety etc, etc difficulties.

A statement is not just for academic difficulties. Its about lack of progress in many areas. I applied myself for a statement and we are in the process of getting one (i did this with a verbal dx) so it can be done.

Lack of progress is the key.

His levels are not particularly high for a child his age, although you say he has not made much progress. I have met someone recently with a son with AS who is in the very high achievement bracket who has a Statement because of his poor social skills. (He is very stressed at school, but not badly behaved).
If you apply and are unsuccessful you can appeal and if that is unsuccessful you can reapply after 6months.
With regard to the handwriting was he writing in pencil in Year 2 and now using a pen? My DS has appalling handwriting but there was a noticeable dip once he had to start using a pen, apparently because there is better resistence with a pencil. Or it could be that this year's teacher is not so "hot" on handwriting. My DS is 15 now and is allowed a scribe in some exams and also to use a keyboard in lessons so althout we would like to be able to read his handwriting it is not the handicap it might appear.

Thank you for reading and replying.

I don't think his problems are minor and they certainly aren't minor to him, but I'm mindful that lots of people here have it much worse.

It breaks my heart to see him unravelling whilst we/he has no support to help him through it. We do our best and always fight his corner, but sometimes if feels like it just isn't enough - well actually it isn't is it, he deserves to be able to go to school, feel safe and be successful both socially and academically just like any other child.

The Head has been very supportive in the meetings we have had and has tackled the bullying, but unfortunately trusted ds's hopeless teacher to implement everything we agreed and she just hasn't done it.

His IEP doesn't even allude to his ASD and when we asked if all staff who came into contact with him could be informed so that can better understand and handle him, we were told they couldn't do this, as it breaches his confidentiality and that any teachers that teach him would automatically be informed by his teacher and via the IEP. Hopeless as the IEP just goes on about handwriting, spacing etc remembering homework/being organised and telling an adult if he has a problem. He has had an endless stream of other teachers and TAs taking his class due to his teacher always being off sick and none of them have been aware of his ASD, also, the majority of his run-ins have been with other teachers outside of his lessons.

The SENCO said at the last meeting that in her opinion he won't meet any of the target's they've set him on the IEP, but they need to follow process and he needs to be kept 'in the system'!

The SENCO left this week and they haven't recruited her replacement as yet.

This year is the first year that he hasn't progressed academically, but even then he has progressed, just not the required 2 subsets. The SENCO tested his reading and spelling a couple of weeks back and at the age of 8 he has a reading age of 12 plus (apparently they didn't have the resources to test him any higher, but she felt he could well be a lot higher than that) and a spelling age of 11.

He isn't making any headway at all with his self-management, organisation, social and communication skills, anxiety or concentration and we are now finding out more and more things about school which he finds difficult eg he only told us this year that he hates sports day because all the children shout for their teams and he can't stand the noise, before that we had no idea that noise was an issue for him as he had never shown any outward signs of distress. We now know that he internalises an awful lot, hence the acid reflux and migraines etc, but we are making progress in getting him to tell us about things that upset him or he finds distressing.

He struggles such a lot in the playground that he currently has permission to go and sit in the reception area and read a book if he can't cope and he has a designated dinner lady to go to if he is distressed or has been bullied. He has been the victim of some truly horrible bullying in the playground, dinner hall, corridors and even classroom this year and his confidence is at an all time low because of it. Despite this teachers tend to think he is arrogant because of the way he speaks and his vocabulary.

His report appeared to be about another child as it referred to him being good at PE when two weeks earlier his teacher told us he is hopeless at sport and tends to have to partner her as the other children don't want to be his partner. She also put that he was making progress in his handwriting, when at the same meeting she said if anything it was getting worse and she felt he may have dyspraxia.

Does all that add up to lack of progress, or is it just a chaotic mess, as that's how it feels to me at the moment. I am really struggling to make sense of it all. He is my first born and I don't have much experience of boys his age, so I don't really know what is 'normal'.

School is a social place. Your DS needs help in that area.

You can get a statement without a formal dx of ASD. A formal dx would access the school, you and him extra support though via outreach work or membership to local ASD organisations though, so worth going for.

We have a statement without a dx (at the moment). Took a while but has been worth the hassle.

Thanks imahappycamper.

No he is still writing in pencil. I'm wondering whether the handwriting issue is actually due to the problems with concentration. Basically he doesn't get started and then rushes to finish. He has always had problems with putting spaces between words and using capitals and full stops, but he had made really good progress with this by the end of year 2 and now its all gone to pot again. He just cannot do any joined up writing at all and ends up in tears every time he has to try. He doesn't have a dominant hand for most things, but elected to use his left hand in year 1 and has stuck with it, his writing is definitely worse with his right hand.

The lovely supply teacher he had for the first 6 months this year implemented handwriting lessons for the whole class as she was apalled at their handwriting in general and his teacher did carry these on when she came back, but his writing has got worse, not better. I was so shocked by the standard of his classwork when I saw it at open evening that I arranged a meeting to discuss it with his teacher. To be honest, when he does work with me at home his writing is 100% better and his homework book bares no resemblance to his classwork, which is another one of the reasons I feel he isn't reaching his potential.

Thank you Spinkle.

I'm not sure how much support he would get with a dx, as I have heard of people locally getting the dx but that's it, no support offered. Am really hoping that won't be the case for us.

We have recently joined a local ASD support group, but they only meet during term time, so we won't get to attend our first meet until September.

I feel like such a wimp, I just don't know if I am clear enough in my thinking etc to be able to make a good case for him. I have read the IPSEA website, but I guess I need to sit down and work out what exactly he can and can't do, what he needs help with and what sort of support/help he would need.

His IEP doesn't even allude to his ASD and when we asked if all staff who came into contact with him could be informed so that can better understand and handle him, we were told they couldn't do this, as it breaches his confidentiality

What utter rubbish. My DS is at a large Secondary and not only are all his teachers sent a copy of his IEP which is flagged up on the cass lists of the classes he is in, but at the beginning of the term the SENCo holds Staff briefings at which she outlines the needs of the SEN children and draws attention to any specific needs they might have, such as a time out card so they can leave the room if stressed. It is a massive school with a large number of SEN pupils and no parents have ever complained that they do this. Parents are actually grateful that everyone who comes into contact with their child knows the issues.

If he won't meet any of the targets on his IEP he needs new targets that are achievable with input-Small Achievable Relevent Time bound (SMART).The Headteacher is responsible for the Special Educational Needs of the school, but delegates it to the SENCo. Therefore in the absence of a SENCo the Head is the person you should raise your concerns with.
He sounds a bit like my DS who is extremely articulate. In Year 6 we had the embarrassment of having a Graduate Trainee in his class who was less articulate than he was so he would tell her what words meant and correct her English. He was also perceived as arrogant.

It probably isn't a good time to apply for Statutory Assessment. As his next teacher has a good reputation it is probably worth seeing how things go at the beginning of next term.

Just read your comment about not having a dominant hand. That will probably be part of the problem. My DS was a bit like that but is now firmly lefthanded, which doesn't help when he has problems with the whole thing.

I don't know about all areas but here when the formal dx comes in then outreach from a local ASD school comes in and can suggest things to help kids in school. Teachers don't necesarily understand ASD. (I say that because I am a teacher). And all kids have different strengths and weaknesses - not all ASD kids have the same isues.

Your DS's new teacher might have a better grip on it but, personally, I wouldn't take the chance. Better to get the ball rolling now as statements take forever to come through - 12 months in our case.

You've nothing to lose from it, but plenty to gain.

Oh, and btw.

You're not a wimp. You're an ASD parent. This is a job only given to extremely strong and patient people.

Thanks IAHC, that's exactly what I said about the confidentiality thing.

We did discuss waiting to see what his next teacher is like before going ahead and it does make sense. I suppose we kind of thought that applying for a statement would give a clear message to the school that we mean business and won't be fobbed off.

We have had such a terrible year with a hopeless teacher who quite frankly can only be described as incompetent - and that's being kind. Maybe we are being a bit kneejerk about this, but at the same time, his teacher might be great this coming year, but who knows who he'll get the year after or the year after that, iyswim.

Last year he had the head of KS1 for his class teacher and he thrived. We still had issues with bullying (same children all the way through school, thankfully now dealt with) but he was happy and relaxed, actually liked going to school and did really well. The school is a primary that doesn't really make a big deal about the transition from ks1 to ks2 and he still has some of the teachers and TAs he had in infants, so we have been shocked at how badly he has been affected this year.

Prior to this year he has only ever had two problems relating to his behaviour in school - once when he was rude to a dinner lady when another child threw his lunch on the floor, the dinner lady told him he had to tidy it up and he refused and once when he was rude to a TA who wouldn't let him use a certain piece of packaging for junk modelling when he had a clear picture in his mind about what he wanted to do. Both 'incidents' happened on the same day, with the second happening in the session after lunch, while he was already stressed and also coincided with the birth of his baby sister.

I have bought him some 'supposedly' fun handwriting books which start at the basics and progress to simply joins to practice over the holidays with him and he has agreed to do half an hour a day, so I'm hoping he will make at least some progress during the break.

Spinkle, strong and patient - nope, not me!

I am a confirmed wimp, I can rant and rage at home and write a mean letter, but am hopeless at standing up for myself in face to face situations.

(Well with anyone except dh that is! )

I would seriously love to home school him, but not only does he need the social interaction, he's also cleverer than I am.

Hey

I am a few years on from you with a very similar ds...
He is now 14 and school are telling me that there is no point getting a statement for him as he has nearly finished his school education.. I struggle with this because I wish I had gotten him a statement earlier

I would say definitely do all you can to get him a statement - if I could turn back time I would..Its not easy to get a statement if your child is bright - but it can be done ..

I have one ds with asd and one disabled dd - they are both achieving well above average but both need help in other areas - so far I haven't managed to get help for either of them within the state system and we have now just taken the decision to struggle to pay for our dd to go private because its the only way we can get her cared for ...

bloody drives me mad ....

good luck ...x

Yes. DS1 was assessed at level 3b for maths at the start of year 1 and started reception already reading quite confidently and writing. All the same, he also started reception with a statement just about finalised, in part because his behavioural difficulties meant he had extreme difficulty accessing the full curriculum and he needs to be kept safe.

Thank you Duritzfan. That's what worries me. We have been holding on for so long for his assessment as we felt then actually getting a statement would be slightly easier and also we would have a clearer picture of what exactly he needs the most help with, but time is marching on and everything takes so long, if he needs a statement, we need to make sure its in place before his transition to secondary. Which in itself is a worry as the secondary his school feeds, his best friend will go to and he has always been told he will attend has applied for Academy status now, so who knows if they'll even accept SEN students.

He was initially referred to the Paed by the GP in November, saw the Paed in January, then it took him ages to send all the paperwork to the Multi-Dip Ass Unit and I finally got a letter to say he was on their waiting list in April.

We had a follow-up by the Paed in June, as he was also under him for coeliac testing. He told us at that meeting that the ADHD questionnaires had come back negative (but as he said, both we and he knew that it would) and that there was nothing else he can do for ds so he was discharging him to the care of the MDAU.

I was initially told it would be a 15 month wait, but having called and spoken to the waiting list manager, she said she thinks 12 months is more likely. We are obviously praying that it is the 12 months rather than the 15.

Thank you for replying ouryve. Ds is doing ok academically and he only needs to be kept safe from the horrible bullies in his class/school. He's generally not a problem to his teachers and doesn't get into trouble a lot, but when he does its usually ASD related and is always a huge issue.

What with him not having significant academic or behavioural problems, I can't help thinking we would just be refused outright, but so many people on here have told me time and again that he needs a statement before its too late and we should be pushing to get one.

I just don't know what else I can do to try and help him and he is suffering so much it breaks my heart.

"I have heard people say that unless the child is X number of years behind academically they won't get a statement. I know this is not 'allowed', as its a blanket policy, but am aware that it does happen. Are we likely to come up against this sort of attitude and if so, how do we deal with it?"

LAs often have their own policies regarding X number of years, but the SEN COP would take precedence over that at appeal. The SEND tribunal tends to listen to parents and interpret the law more rigidly than LAs. LAs often refuse to assess in cases like this and only back down once an appeal has been lodged or when directed to by the tribunal.

"If you apply and are unsuccessful you can appeal and if that is unsuccessful you can reapply after 6months."

Just to clarify this - you don't have to wait 6 months to reapply after being turned down. In fact you could reapply immediately after being turned down, although it's likely to be turned down on the same grounds unless you have new evidence. You may have to gather independent evidence from professionals like a SALT or OT to get that evidence, especially if the NHS isn't being very helpful.

Have you looked at BIBIC? They can also do assessments and reports, although they won't provide a dx. They also provide a therapy programme to help sensory/coordination issues.

Duritzfan You can get a statement until a child is in the last year of school and if they already have one at age 16, it can carry on until they leave school, if they stay on for A level (but it would cease if they went to a college).

So it's still worth trying for one. It does take at least 6 months to put into place but your child would benefit from it for a few years. It's true that LAs don't like to give out statements and they tend to drag out the process because they know time is of the essence. You may have to be even more determined and pay out for independent evidence of need. But if you think it would help your son in the longer term, do investigate it a bit more and don't assume the opportunity has passed. You can apply for it yourself using a template letter from the IPSEA website.

Hi sugarcandy, thank for your reply.

My feeling is that we wouldn't be taken seriously, at least to begin with and the LA would refuse to assess, so it would go to appeal or tribunal. The whole thing scares the pants off me to be honest.

We have had a look at BIBIC, but wondered if ds was 'bad enough' for them to see him iyswim.

I don't really care about a dx, I just want to get him the help he needs to make the most of his abilities and be happy.

He is about to start family TaeKwonDo lessons with his dad to help his co-ordination, but also for the meditative aspects of it, as we felt it might help with his anxiety. I have also just bought him a wobble board that sets challenges and helps with his balance - fortunately he loves it. He also expressed a keen interest in a friends children's pois, so I have bought him a set to use on the beach this holiday as they are brilliant for spacial awareness and coordination. We are also hoping to finally get him off his stabilisers this summer, but its difficult as we have to go to places away from home for him to practice in case any of the kids from school see him with stabilisers on his bike.

Hi Moosemama. Your ds sounds quite similar to mine. He is just finished Yr 5 with all 4's and a 5 so academically good. He has not had a dx yet but is suspected AS/ASD. I put in a request for assessment which was turned down as 'he is meeting the National Curriculum levels and therefore does not meet the criteria for assessment'. They also stated that he was making steady progress etc etc - the usual fob off. I wrote a long letter stating that his difficulties were all social communication and the only progress being made was towards exclusion. I queried every point that the LA had made asking what their evidence was as neither I nor school could see how they had reached their decision! I expected that they would have real difficulty responding and a week after they got my letter they decided to assess. Just keep being confident and adamant that your ds needs extra support. It's a battle but you'll get there in the end. I must admit I was not looking forward to a tribunal but was quite prepared to go through it as was confident I could argue against LA's reasons. Good luck.

Oh and I also found out that 2 boys at local grammar (which only takes the most academically able) had statements. This therefore meant that LA couldn't state that any child meeting Nat Curriculum levels could not be assessed!

I think it's worth getting in touch with BIBIC - I went and they seem to help children of all abilities. They are very friendly, so you could give them a ring to see what they say.

I understand what you say about dx, but I see it as a gateway to services. Everything should be based on need rather than labels, but LAs and funding depends on box-ticking which is often label-led, sadly.

Don't be daunted about having to appeal. Lots of us here have been through it, including myself. I've been to a tribunal this week and the thought of it was always worse than the actual experience. There is a lot of advice available here and through organisations like IPSEA.

The TaeKwondo sounds helpful - I've heard of it helping in other cases too.

Thank you for replying fightingthela (great name by the way).

Its good to hear that there are some people who have managed to get statements prior to dx - even if it was a fight.

It makes me so angry that the LA can even think of saying they won't help a child achieve his/her full potential because they are meeting national levels. I simply don't understand why they don't want every child to achieve the best they possibly can.

Its not that I think my ds is a superbrain or anything, I just want him to achieve his full potential, the same way as any mother does for any child and I have a more than a niggly feeling that he just isn't doing that and that's leaving aside all the social and organisational stuff. I have seen first hand what he can achieve with good support and from what I have seen of his classwork this year, that simply isn't the case. This to me is also backed up by the fact that his classwork brought down his overall assessment level by one subset and as a result he has only gone up one subset despite previously making good progress.

I was thinking about it on the school run this afternoon and really, he has only had problems this academic year, while he was being taught by a stream of supply teachers and then a teacher who everyone is agrees is hopeless.

Perhaps I should just do the standard letter off the IPSEA website to request SA now, as they have the 6 weeks to respond so I should know either way by September. (Do they still do this in the holidays though?) I fully expect them to refuse and whilst we appeal that we can see how he gets on with the new teacher. If things seem to have significantly improved, we can then decide whether or not we want to follow through with the appeal.

In the meantime, maybe a phonecall to BIBIC would be a good idea, as sugarcandymountain said, the services are label-led and I am worried that he might not get a clear dx and could fall through the cracks of the system as a result. If we can come up with an effective programme to do at home that will help him with at least some of his problems, maybe we won't end up needing a statement.

If all goes well next year and all this distress and upset has been caused by one teacher and 'a bad year', I will of course be fuming, but at the same time pleased that we are able to help him and move onwards and upwards.

Can you tell I have now picked him up from school and breathed a sigh of relief that we don't have to deal with the daily round of school related crap for another 5 1/2 weeks!

He has actually come home happy today, because they have had free play for most of the day, some of it involving other peoples nintendos and computer games. Oh and of course because he doesn't have to go back there for weeks.

I'm not sure what happens if you apply in school hol's but expect someone here will be along who does. Input is expected from the school so presumably this will delay things. LA have only just agreed to assess my ds but due to hol's will not start this until Sept.

If they are not assessing your ds until September, it sounds like nothing would be done with an application until September either.

It didn't even occur to me - doh! I assumed that as they are part of the council, they would carry on as normal during the summer, but of course they can't if they have to gather information from the school to make their decision.

Hmm, sounds like I may need to rethink my plans a little.