Worried about friend's kid

[Comfortable8520]

I am not quite sure where to start with this.

There was a recent thread about a mum who was struggling to take her 9 year old out at weekends, and a lot of replies suggested the child could be autistic. What really struck me was how many people said their children were diagnosed later on at 7, 8, 9, even into the teens. Some adults said they were only diagnosed in their 30s or later.

I have always been watching my own DS closely. I do not see any signs with him, but I always was anxious about missing something. More than that, it brought up worries I have had for a long time about my friend’s son, who is 5 and a bit, the same age as my DS.

My friend also really struggles to get her DS out for playdates, parties, park etc. It is very unpredictable and often he just refuses to go. That is something I never really understood, as my DS is always keen to join in when we go out. Her son also does not really play with my DS or chat to him, apart from when they play with trains. He is extremely interested in spinning things like wheels, mechanisms, washing machines and similar. I have seen him playing with unusual things like a door, opening and closing it repeatedly.

He seems to prefer being on his own and does not appear bothered about joining others. He also has quite a few sensitivities. He cannot tolerate being touched by other people and will scream, and he struggles to be outside in the sun without sunglasses. He is also a very picky eater with a very limited range of plain foods he will accept. I may be wrong, but communication sometimes feels a bit difficult too.

If this were my own child, I think I would be quite concerned if they had no interest in friends or could not cope with parties or children’s activities. I also worry about my friend herself, as it feels like all of this has taken a toll on her and at times it seems she is close to giving up on having a social life altogether.

I have not seen her very much in the last year as I had a baby and life has been busy. When we did speak, she said her son was doing well at school and that the teachers had not raised any concerns. That reassured me at the time, as I assumed that if something were off, school would notice it.

After reading that recent thread about the 9 year old though, I was shocked by how late autism can sometimes be picked up. It made me start worrying all over again about my friend’s son and whether I should have been more direct with her. I have tried to raise my concerns very gently in the past, but she always brushed it off.

I am now unsure what to do. Part of me thinks I should leave it and stop overthinking, and accept that this is not really my place. I do not want to risk losing a friend, but at the same time I cannot ignore that I sometimes feel uneasy when I am around her and her son. I would love to support her, but have no idea how and whether it would even be welcome.

How would you handle this without damaging the friendship or overstepping? Is this something I should step back from emotionally and accept as it is?

It’s no more your business that if she chooses to breastfeed or not. What is your motivation?

My motivation? What a strange question - as humans we care about each other without any reason. I am worried about my friend and her son. It's hard for me to see how much they both struggle with even simple things. It's hard to see how much her life has changed, not in a positive way.

It's not the same as breastfeeding! There is info that early diagnosis and intervention can help autistic people. I think my friend's and her son's life could be so much better with appropriate help.

I don’t think you should say anything.

But you know little or nothing about autism and your friend has deflected your attempts to discuss it. You are not in any position to help and I think would be inserting yourself into something that is absolutely none of your business. Do you really think the woman hasn’t noticed her child’s difficulties? If she wanted to share with you she would have.

I think she notices the difficulties but she doesn't think it's worth investigating them. For example, when she complained that her son did X and Y I asked if she spoke with a GP about it, and she laughed and said: oh no need, it's just his personality. I never brought autism up.

It is not my child and not my business but it's hard to watch my friend slowly isolating herself from the world and not being able to do a lot of things that all other moms I know do.

I am also appalled at the number of cases of kids being diagnosed at 7,8,9 and much later in life. It's sad that school teachers miss the signs in so many kids...

So his mother, who cares for him 24/7 has decided her child doesn’t need to see a Dr, but you have decided he does, because you suspect he has a disability that you know little about? You feel they should “get out more” and socialise more”, perhaps people feel similar things about you and your parenting or other aspects of your life? Children are diagnosed with autism at the age it becomes clear they are autistic and helpful to them and their families to do so. It’s not a sticking plaster and provides very little anyway.

Leave the woman to decide what’s best for her child.

And I would welcome anyone to raise any concerns about my parenting, as long as they do it from a place of care. What else friends are for? To pretend that nothing is happening and slowly vanish away? That's what all her friends have done at the moment, and I don't want to do the same.

It's not that I want her to "socialise more" but at the moment her son doesn't have a single friend, no playdates, nothing. They are completely shut from the outside world. It does not look healthy.

Your posts come across as if you think being autistic is a bad thing, something to pitty and worry about, that should be treated away, and that you feel uncomfortable being around it. In my experience, as long as autism doesn't go along with other severe disabilities and limitations, it's nothing bad. Enjoying parties is not better than not enjoying parties. Some people are extrovert, others are introvert. Your friend might be relieved that there is less pressure for her to go on playdates. Autism usually runs in families, so chances are high that your friend is autistic, too. When it became clear that our children were all autistic, we were relieved that we could dial down on birthday parties, playdates and socialising with other parents for the children's sake, as we didn't enjoy any of this either. Our children are all fine, they are doing well at school, have hobbies, are very independent and happy. They simply never liked parties and playing with other children. My husband and I don't like parties and small talk, but we are happy and have fulfilling lives and careers. If you care about your friend, send her a text and let her know that you care about her. You could also simply ask her directly how she feels, and what she wants to do, and take it from there.

Friends most definitely are not for critiquing the way you choose to raise your children. You say you would be fine with anyone to raise any concerns about my parenting, as long as they do it from a place of care and yet when I raise my concerns about your attitude to your friend you do not seem happy to hear it at all. I have no part in your life, and it doesn’t impact me at all. I am posting from a position of understanding of your friends situation and frankly spending time which for most of us on this board is a rare commodity. Raising a child with any significant disability is far harder than you could ever imagine. Your friend if her child is as disabled as you think faces a journey you will never truly understand or appreciate. Doing ANYTHING that makes that journey harder is unforgivable, and however much you want to rescue her and be the one that gets through to her, and helps her behave in a way that ticks your boxes of how she should respond and behave, please don’t.

Thanks a lot for your post and your perspective.

I never meant to say I see autism as a bad or concerning thing on its own. My concern was mainly about the lack of help and guidance I think my friend should be getting (if the diagnosis is confirmed). Saying that, I re-read my post and I see how you got to that conclusion.

Before her DS was born my friend was quite outgoing and extraverted. The same continued when her DS was a baby, however at around 1.5 - 2 she started struggling going out because of the DS's problems with it. We had lots of last minute cancellations, because her DS just would not go out. If we went out with a group of mom friends/kids, she and the DS often ended up on their own, as the DS just would not want to follow and join all other kids. At the DS' 5.5 y.o. my friend's social life reduced to practically not going out at all. As I saw her enjoying the social interactions many times before, I don't think she is fine with it.

I think I felt uncomfortable during our dates because we both (my friend and I) were expecting that her DS behaves like other children do.This is what made the dates awkward. On occasions, I was not sure whether the DS enjoyed the chosen activities, what to do when he did not join (despite his mom's and my attempts) and how to navigate between my friend and other moms attending dates. I don't know how to make play dates comfortable for a potentially autistic kid but I would happily adjust.

Thank you also for suggesting that I speak with my friend about her feelings, but I when I asked similar questions (i.e. whether she has any concerns) she would just say that's how her son is. I feel there is currently a wall between us and I either need to be very direct (but don't want to offend her) or not speak about it at all and keep pretending that nothing worries me.

I am totally fine to hear what you want to say about my attitude towards my friend - this is what I am here for. I guess I just don't understand why you are thinking that I am criticizing her as a parent because that's not how I see the situation at all.

I know that I am concerned about my friend as it looks like she needs help. I appreciate that I don't fully understand what she is going through. Maybe she doesn't need me to do anything at all, but it's hard for me to watch how she struggles.

If my friend said to me that she suspects that her DS is autistic but decided to do nothing about it for now, I would accept it. Yes, if I am totally honest I maybe would have secretly judged her for now getting help for the DS (sorry if that's offensive!) but this would not stop me from being her friend and supporting her. But at least I would have had a piece of mind that she is aware about what is potentially going on and she made an informal choice about how to deal with it.

I don't know. Maybe you are right and I should just leave it and process my feelings about it on my own.

It's not the job of schoolteachers to diagnose autism.

And it's quite normal for autistic DC not to be diagnosed until later primary. For one thing, waiting lists are years long.

You also assume that there is help and support once children are diagnosed. There isn't really.

Keep your beak out!

Wow, that's rude!

I am not going to continue speaking with anyone who is communicating that way. I hope you feel better after being so rude so someone who is genuinely concerned about a friend.

I was a bit rude. Sorry.

But it's obvious from your own account that your friend has repeatedly, politely, asked you to back off?

Everything else I said was factual.

My DC was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD at 7 and we've received no help other than what we've paid for (we had to pay for the assessments too). It was worth doing for better understanding but if a friend repeatedly asked why we have to do things a certain way or can't do certain things, I'd get quite annoyed.

What help and support do you think there is?

Unless your friend has been living under a rock or has very limited communication there is no way on earth she hasn’t heard of autism. It’s clear she does realise her son struggles socially because she accommodates his needs by being highly selective in what they attend.

But at least I would have had a piece of mind that she is aware about what is potentially going on your “peace of mind” is not what you should be focusing on. Dealing with people in my life who expressed similar mindsets made our situation immeasurably harder. If you can’t control your urge to coach your friend to think about her child’s difficulties in the way you do, then I would suggest you remove yourself. If you actually want to be a true friend celebrate who she is and be there when she wobbles.

Well, yes, my friend has brushed my questions about her DS' behaviour off. Not that I often spoke about it - 2 or 3 times in the last 3 years and only after she shared her concerns herself.

You are perhaps right that I have to accept it and do nothing. I am not going to pretend that I understand why she doesn't want to talk about it with a GP at least, but I guess there are reasons.

It's a shame that you had to pay for the assessment. Once you know about the diagnosis, would you not want to explain to your friends the best way to communicate with your DC though? Or would you prefer not to talk about it at all? When I am with my friend's DS I am not sure I am doing what's right/comfortable for him as I can't understand his reaction at all. He would not generally show or say if he likes/dislikes anything. I saw him having some extreme reactions to things, but to me these seem to be out of nowhere - but of course it would be good to know if anything can be done to avoid it.

In regards to the support, I know that a friend of a friend's kid received a funded place in a private school. They don't have to pay for anything and even have daily transportation to the school and back. I understand that not every autistic kid needs it but would having a diagnosis not help to get more help in a mainstream school too, for example a break in a quiet room?..

Support in schools is based on needs, not diagnosis.

I'd suggest just meeting this child where he is. He's another human being, with tastes and preferences. He might enjoy playing Lego, or telling people stuff about the solar system, or watching nonsense on YouTube, or BMX, or baking, or playing with the baby [examples randomly chosen from things my DD and other kids she knew liked around that age]. Try a few things. Or he might not be very interested in you at all.

Just treat your friend like a friend not as a problem/someone with a problem. Do or talk about whatever brought you together in the first place.

Are you sure she hasn’t talked to the GP, or HV or anyone else about it? Perhaps she just didn’t share that with you?

@Comfortable8520 I'm sure you want to be a good friend. When I suggested you ask her what she thinks, I didn't mean for you to ask her whether she has concerns about her son. Just simply ask her what she and her son like to do, what she thinks she and he would enjoy. You say both your children like trains and you observed your friend and your friends son are uncomfortable in big groups. Then ask whether she maybe would like to meet just the 4 of you, say you could get the train set out, or whether she maybe would like drinks over zoom, or if there is anything she'd suggest. It's not on you to push for her to get a diagnosis. Schools will refer if they need to, and waiting times can be upwards of 4 years. The boy doesn't sound like he needs a special school, and suggesting that is pretty rude. I would be mortified if someone suggested to me my autistic children needed to go to a special school on school transport. This is stuff you can't suggest to something. It's a bit like saying: Did you get diagnosed for obesity? You should get a prescriotion for ozempic! There is no good way you can ask about that without it coming across wrong.

Well you could try and invite just her out for a coffee or lunch. I think you haven’t invested any time with her she is really struggling.
She doesn’t want you to advise. You don’t understand it. She will know what is happening 100% and probably she is quite / severally depressed.
Dr are no help, even diagnosis or EHCP that is her child who she will be having sleepless nights over and stressed out beyond her limit.

She will of decided she doesn’t want to share any more info as it will be too exhausting and will probably not have the energy or mental capacity.

Im sure she would love you just as a friend. She won’t share though until you’re none judgmental and have your “listening ears on” 🤣 sorry that’s what teachers always say. Maybe take her out as don’t talk about her “autistic kid that isn’t hitting the correct levels on the charts”

50 years old you can be diagnosed. Think about what friends you had at 5 do you still have them even 15/25/35 probably only the select few.

Maybe you have ignored her slightly in her needs. Don’t tell her what to do and her son.

If you’re struggling to understand a pda / demand avoidant child in life you would be always welcome around my house to see it with your eyes 🤣 it’s beyond exhausting and not enjoyable for the majority of the time. That’s what she is living with 24/7 and absolutely cooked and worn out.

Think whether you have been a friend to her or not …..

I've been thinking about what you said. I think the issue is probably that deep down inside I don't agree with the way my friend approaches the potential SN of her son. To me she is a great parent in a lot of other aspects. But when it comes to potential SN I think her approach is to pretend that nothing is happening, try to make her DS to behave like all other kids, don't investigate it and do nothing about it.

You are saying "highly selective" - I see it more as avoidant. I think that she is now sacred of going to social occasions and play dates, because a lot of bad experiences she had in the past. So it's not really that she figured out a thoughtful plan, she just decided not to.

The more I think about it, the more I feel I could say or do nothing. I would want her to figure that out, but she's probably has to do it on her own or with a specialist's help, not mine. If she needed my help, she would have asked for it.

No, no, I don't treat my friend as a problem at all. The fact that there are awkward not nice experiences she and I have been having at social events and playdates is a problem though. I would love to figure out how we can spend time with her in the way that everyone has good experiences.

Unfortunately all I know about her DS is that he is interested in trains and wheels. In the past we've tried a wide range of activities but he does not seem to enjoy anything else. Maybe I am missing something as it's hard for me to understand his emotions - he does not show any. I guess I will stick to trains/wheels next time I see him, at least I can't go wrong there.

Your take on the “correct” approach plus your lack of understanding of the nature of her son’s difficulties and ignorance of what she IS doing, just really make it hard to answer in a way that is constructive. I’m going to bow out because while my child is much older and our days of this sort of thing are long passed, it’s really upsetting to read. I think you’ve asked a group of people with direct experience of the sort of issues your friend is facing and had some excellent and clear (unanimous) feedback on your take on the situation. I really hope you can find a way of remaining friends without making life harder for her. It’s harder to be a good friend than it appears and even harder when life throws up new obstacles you haven’t encountered before.

Well there you are then. Trains! Lots of potential there.