EHCP support thread no. 2

[Phineyj]

This is a support thread for anyone at any stage of the EHCP process. I've got an 11 year old girl in year 6 of a mainstream private primary school. I've been seeking an EHCP since she was in year 5, to support her transition to secondary school. She is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and is working about two years behind age related expectations. Our local authority refused to assess and refused to issue. We are currently in the 11 month wait for a second tribunal which I am hoping (but not sure) will take place before she actually goes to secondary, although I doubt the actual EHCP will be finalised by then. In the meantime I've been enjoying (not) learning all these acronyms and trying to support other people in this journey. In my spare time, I'm a secondary school teacher.

If you, too, are drowning in acronyms and paperwork while finding your local authority (LA) as useful as a chocolate teapot, join your fellow travellers here!

@SearchingForSolitude I’ve been banging the S19 drum for 18 months now and just not getting anywhere. The LA just don’t seem to care and for reasons I can’t fathom have absolutely no consequences to their actions.

We’re waiting for a specialist to respond to the consultation, currently day 11. I’m just feeling completely hopeless and despondent today.

Oh @Coatsy sorry. I meant I would just send the evidence. Not wouldn’t! Otherwise my earlier post to you and last you to you wouldn’t make sense. I should proof read. I meant just send the evidence and a brief note of what they are but you don’t need to send a detailed position statement.

@Lostatsea10 have you threatened JR then sent a pre-action letter?

@SearchingForSolitude

I did think! I am going to send that across via email tonight, with a summary of evidence attached. Will keep it brief.

Have a few questions for the LA solicitor but will otherwise sign off on the consent order.

Thank you!

How does a virtual EP assessment work though? I don’t quite understand that. Do they not actually need to see the child in person to be able to assess them then?

You'd think they'd need to see them in an educational setting really.

My DD's had two. One, the Ed psych spoke to me on the phone at some length and then observed her at school and spoke to her, the class teacher and the SENCO. That was the LA ed psych.

The other, which I arranged, involved me taking her to the Ed psych's house where she did various cognitive tests sitting at a table with him while I sat outside the room.

I can't imagine either assessment could have worked over the computer. Maybe the adult discussions, but even then a regular telephone call would serve.

I’m not sure if it’ll be a phone call or online meeting, but essentially it sounds like it will just be a discussion with me.

I did say I have doubts about a remote assessment.

I think F2F assessments are always preferable for gaining a comprehensive assessment of a child’s needs, but advice and information gathered via virtual assessment can satisfy the legal requirement.

I agree re F2F being preferable. Our SLT observed DD in nursery this week as part of her report and the visit gave her really useful insight into what DD can/can’t participate in and barriers to learning. A discussion on the phone simply wouldn’t have been enough.

I do have the choice at the moment between remote/F2F but the issue is if the threat of JR doesn’t work (and I am unable to follow up with a pre-action letter), then there will be a longer wait for the F2F assessment. And DD may have moved settings by then. It’s all such a mess.

The LA aren’t fussed about the delays as she’s not starting school until September 2025. They also know she’s moving to a new setting and will get 1:1 support there (as it was their suggestion to move). But as far as I’m concerned, the earlier more support is in place with an EHCP the better. Even if she’s not school age. And a 1:1 alone will not be enough.

Yeah I agree with you both @Phineyj @SearchingForSolitude I kind of just assumed that any assessment of the child would have to be done in person. I’m not sure how you can see the whole picture if it’s a remote assessment. Gathering information from the parent can easily be done virtually.

Sorry @Ponche I hope I haven’t made the whole thing sound so negative😅I was just curious on how it all worked once you mentioned it. Ignore me!

@MinnieTruck no worries, I had my doubts anyway!

@SearchingForSolitude Just wondering how much detail the private SLT report should include re what type of setting they recommend. The draft report has one line saying ‘predictable environment with a high adult/child ratio’ but I feel more detail should be included and it should be obvious if mainstream/specialist is recommended.

As the LA is conceding and will issue an EHCP, is there anything I should clarify via their solicitor (alongside signing the consent order)?

To confirm, this was part of an appeal that was due to have the final hearing later in the year. They informed me they would no longer contest the appeal on the day final evidence was due.

@Coatsy there’s nothing you specifically need to clarify unless you don’t understand something. You do need to be aware of the timescales the LA must adhere to (surprise, surprise, LAs like to breach them).

@Ponche if that is the only detail about environment/curriculum etc. I would expect more. It should be clear from reading a good report if SS is required.

@Coatsy I'm 5 weeks ahead of you. The LA have 5 weeks to produce a draft once you have the consent order back from the tribunal. Then 3 weeks to consult schools and produce a final.

@SearchingForSolitude thank you, I’ve asked for more detail to be added.

Just had a question re appeals. Say you appeal because recommendations from independent reports have not been included in section F of the EHCP.

I know all evidence/reports will/have to be considered, but does that mean all recommendations from these have to be included (if the need is evidenced properly?).

Or is it the case that some recommendations are still not included even after appealing?

Unless the consent order agrees otherwise, the timescales in regulation 44 of the SEN Regs apply, so following the LA conceding a refusal to issue appeal the LA must issue a draft within 5 weeks of the order and finalise within 11 weeks order. It isn’t 3 weeks to finalise.

@Ponche all information will be considered. That isn’t the same as all information from all evidence will be included in the amended EHCP. Not least because there is often contradictory information from different evidence. SENDIST will consider and weigh up evidence on the content outstanding when you get to the appeal.

@SearchingForSolitude thank you! Sorry, one other question. DD is due to start school in Sep 2025, so if we have to appeal, will it still be a long wait (not sure exactly what current timescales are) or will it be prioritised as a phase transfer?

Being prioritised as a phase transfer - say the EHCP is issued in July 2024 and you register the appeal then, is it considered a phase transfer at that stage? Or will it only be considered as a phase transfer after the start of the next academic year (Sep 2024)?

We don’t even have a decision to issue yet so this is all hypothetical. It’s just the LA keep telling me there’s plenty of time before she starts school, but of course they’re not factoring in appeals etc.

@SearchingForSolitude oh my LA seem to think it's 3 weeks! I'm not going to correct them 😂👏

Both schools that we asked the LA to consult with have come back saying they can't meet DS's needs, citing 'incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others'.

One of these is the school we have a place at for Y7 in September. Pre-draft EHCP, I had a long meeting with them and it was mostly positive. But now they are saying:
"We cannot provide:

• ‘Provision of a lower-arousal working area, with reduced distractions, where DS can go when he needs to regulate or learn outside of the classroom’ –> we do not have a lower-arousal working area in our setting

(They have a curriculum support space but this is apparently not open to pupils on an as-needed basis)

• ‘A Precision Teaching intervention daily to improve the automatic recall of basic number facts’

–> we are not able to offer daily interventions for students

• ‘DS should have pre-teaching components of literacy and numeracy lessons in advance to encourage his active participation and his understanding.’

-> (no reason given)

• ‘To continue to offer DS sensory circuits in school’

–> we do not do this in a secondary setting

• ‘DS should continue to be able to use a laptop when engaging in extended writing activities. He should follow an online touch-typing course for children to increase his skills in this area’

-> would parents provide? – we do not have laptops for students, we are not able to provide. (on a school tour, I saw a child using a laptop in lessons)

• The provision listed includes up to around an hour of 1:1 provision daily, and an additional hour of 1:1 provision or small group provision on a weekly basis. We may offer some small group support, but this is once a week only, during Form Time.

Both of these schools are highly oversubscribed, 'outstanding' academies. One has already taken about 10 kids with EHCPs for September. The one quoted above has only taken 6.

Any thoughts? Surely, the whole purpose of the EHCP is to provide (and fund) support above the school's ordinarily available provision, so with the correct funding, a school should be able to meet DS's needs, shouldn't they?

DH is now saying maybe we shouldn't have pushed for a Plan if it means we lose the place we have, but without the Plan DS will just be thrown into the deep water with no support.

What a rotten system.

@SpaceInvader321, others will have more expert advice, including procedurally, but quite a lot of that does not seem likely to stand up to challenge.

Academisation seems to have spawned institutions/SLTs that now believe they are able to behave outside the law, whether the SEND CoP or the Equality Act. Some high performing academies seem to think they can get away with saying 'we only do quality first teaching because we are a mainstream school', the implicit suggestion being that every child with an EHCP belongs in a special school, even if the provision could actually be accommodated pretty easily.

Whilst these academies may not want the hassle factor of having children with EHCPs, it is obviously not in the LA's interests for kids to be pushed out of mainstream and into special schools against the wishes of children and families where mainstream is the most suitable option. So the LA may challenge schools on this, but I suspect this then often gets resolved with meaningless guff in EHC plans which both parties know is unenforceable. The loser of course is the child who needed the provision. Finding mainstream schools who are, in practice, genuinely committed to inclusion, feels key.

I remain interested in reasonable adjustment and progressing these in parallel to EHCP provision, as the legal test is different.

@SpaceInvader321 not having an EHCP isn’t really an option if DS needs one because his needs won’t be met without an EHCP.

Just because the school has objected doesn’t mean they can’t be named, assuming the schools aren’t wholly independent. The bar for proving placing DS there is incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others is higher than many LAs and schools admit. If one of these schools is your preference I would still push for them to be named.

Laptop and touch typing course could be funded by the EHCP - parents do not need to provide it. Daily interventions and pre-teaching aren’t unusual. As long as the provision, including staffing, is set out the EHCP, MS can provide this. Sensory circuits can be provided in secondary - again as long as the staffing and resources are in the EHCP it could be provided. There is no reason why the curriculum support base couldn’t be used as the low arousal space. If the LA refuse to name one as your preference and you appeal, the LA is going to need to provide more concrete evidence of incompatibility than you include in your post.

@Ponche waits are around a year for cases that aren’t expedited. SENDIST will still be dealing with the current phase transfer appeals in July (and in September), so an appeal submitted then wouldn’t be classed as a phase transfer appeal straight away.

@SearchingForSolitude thank you for always taking the time to explain everything in detail!

Thank you @SearchingForSolitude and @Cafetabac

not having an EHCP isn’t really an option if DS needs one because his needs won’t be met without an EHCP.

Yes, I totally agree. He's been getting very little support at primary without a Plan. I'm afraid he'd only fall further behind in secondary without one.

Both schools are state MS settings. I've reviewed the draft plan with the LA's EP and our SENCo and they both think the provisions are reasonable. All of the key provisions specify staff (Teacher or TA or SENCo, depending on the provision). The sensory circuits provision might be the weakest one, as it specifies only 'school staff' but I could ask for this to be further specified.

Aren't 1-2-1 and small group provisions pretty standard for kids who genuinely need the extra support? I don't understand how these schools can get away saying that they don't provide it. They seem to think they don't need to adapt their way of doing things -- and then they talk at Open events about how dedicated they are to supporting children of all abilities to succeed and reach their potential.

I know they're just hoping that we'll back off. And part of me is tempted to do that. We have another school we're waiting to hear back from. It's not as stellar academically but has a really caring SEN department. I guess we need to decide which to give more weight to. On paper at least, pushing for one of our original two schools will give DS a better chance of greater academic success, but I worry that maybe they'll resent him getting in when they said no and will then only do their bare minimum for him or make life miserable.

I've talked with SEN parents who have or had kids at all of these schools and the feedback is very mixed for all of them, so I feel like it's a gamble either way and you just have no way really of knowing in advance what will truly be best for your child.

Another meeting with the head tomorrow to discuss why provision has been made so patchily, again.

Removed from literacy to go to another intervention but he needs both (dyslexia and dyspraxia), and they didn't check with us.

I will have to bring up about exam cover and how his TA for dyspraxia interventions/motor skills gets pulled away to cover e.g. scribing.

We are stuck in this pattern of me saying he needs provision it is not optional, and the school saying we do not have enough staff to go round.

This is year 9 and we have been on a merry go round with discussion like this since Y7.

I also don't think he is going to hit functional literacy by Y11 at the rate things are going (literacy merges with Eng from Sept). They are not doing half the stuff the EP advised or are vague about it ('no well we don't do paired reading every week...'). I feel like I can't pin them down.

Can I ask for the objective on the EHCP to say for DS to reach a reading age/spelling age of 9 by end of Y11?

Whose job is it to write these aims for KS end? Can we have an input?

@SpaceInvader321 do request the sensory circuits wording is amended. “School staff” is inadequate.

1:1 and small group work isn't unusual within EHCPs. Some LAs often refuse to include 1:1 (see, we don’t give 1:1 in this area) or make the 1:1 wording woolly, especially at secondary, so many with 1:1 will have appealed.

Weighing up academics and SEN support is difficult. I have 2 academically very able DC with EHCPs. I’m of the opinion academic success is of little use if DC can’t function in life. Academics can always come separately to school. Although both get frustrated if the academic work isn't targeted at their level.

Schools think they can get away with it because it puts some parents off. The schools know if the parent challenges it, it won’t wash. Schools also know sometimes LAs will name the school anyway.

@Alltheyearround if the school needs more staff to provide the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F, they should approach the LA. Have you spoken to the LA?

Do you mean the outcomes in E? (not targets as some LAs think - targets are an aim, outcomes are the result of provision. I have given the dictionary definition of both the more than one LA.) They should come from the evidence which you should be involved in and could be able reading and spelling age by the end of KS4.

I've had a text from SENDIST confirming receipt of my appeal and that they have everything they need to register it. I'm feeling enormously nervous about this whole thing. My caseworker is currently off sick so I've had to go to his boss to try and get an update on their school consultations. I'm sure the schools should have replied by now. If they've both said no it favours our appeal and I can ask the LA what they plan to do to make sure the EHCP is met in September.