4 year old with possible adhd - I'm desperately needing help

[Ikeepontrying]

I'm at my whits end. I could cry most days and I'm just clueless how to manage my 4 year old.

He struggles with instructions. Struggles to sit/stand still. Is terrible in restaurants, supermarkets. Overly confident with adults, thinks he's in charge of me. Screams at me most days for hardly doing anything. I don't feel like im living a normal life. He demands my attention all the time and can't play by himself.

He likes destroying/breaking things on purpose.

He's very much a mummy's boy and is very loving but I can't deal with all the screaming and defiance.

Where can I get some help? I've tried everything such as positive parenting, reward charts, clear simple instructions etc but things seem to be getting worse not better.

Nursery don't see any of what I see. He manages to follow instruction there but outside it's just terrible. I can see my family / friends think he's just unruly but I know it's more than that but im fed up with feeling so out of control.

Anyone please help me

Anyone??

DS sounds completely overwhelmed.

It also sounds like he is possibly masking at nursery and you are experiencing the coke bottle effect. What support is DS receiving at nursery? Is he starting school is September?

Has DS been referred for further assessment?

Some people find Ross Greene’s The Explosive Child book and Yvonne Newbold’s resources.

The SEN boards are quieter, so replies generally aren’t as quick, but the replies you do get are generally more understanding of SEN than you get on some of the main boards.

What Thomas said.

Usborne do two excellent bools called 'all.about feelings' and 'all about friends'. Unlike most emotion books for kids they don't compare Perfect Patsy with Naughty Nora and tell Nora to do breathing exercises.

Molly Potter's books are good too.

Some kids find reward charts and suchlikr are just extra pressure.

I think ds and myself are both overwhelmed. I'm struggling and hate to admit it but also have no back up. My parents are older and my dad has zero patience. DH is no help really and doesn't understand how hard all this is.
I just want more tools to be able to deal with situations and know what to say and how to handle things. I feel completely out of control.

Yea ds starts school in sept. It was mentioned about adhd at his preschool review in jan but nothings happened since then.

Is there Instagram or Facebook pages or forums for general help?

I'll have a look at the suggestions you've already mentioned now

I'm not sure any of those books would help, talking about feelings has never been a problem and we speak daily about how we feel, sad, excited happy, annoyed etc. he's really good at recognising all those emotions. It's everything else and daily living and battles, negotiations, instructions, defiance everything else

There may also be an element of demand avoidance. Looking at PDA strategies may help.

You need to ensure a referral is made. In some areas you can self refer, if you can’t in your area the GP &/or nursery will be able to.

Have you spoken to the SENCO at the primary school DS will attend? The nursery should be providing support, are they?

Being able to recognise emotions and deeper emotional literacy and regulation are quite different. The difficulties you describe suggest DS struggles to one extent or another with emotional literacy and regulation. Nursery could start using something like Zones of Regulation.

I've never heard of pda, just had to google it and that sums up ds to a T.
Oh god why do I not know these things? I feel like a shit parent and failing him.

Nursery don't see any issue which is why I think I'm getting more outbursts because he's holding everything in while there and then exploding at home. It's exhausting. I will speak to his school before he starts but expect something similar.

You are not shit or failing DS.

Nursery should still be providing support. Holding it together at nursery/school and exploding at home isn’t uncommon. It is known as the coke bottle effect. It doesn’t mean the problem is at home. If nursery was easier, home life would likely improve too.

Thank you replying. I feel so alone and honestly have recently felt like the worst mum and not known why.

So where do I go from here? He's only at nursery another 4 weeks until he breaks up for the holidays. How do I get the coping mechanisms? I'm willing to learn I just have no clue how best to deal with the issues he has and what to say. I'll read up more about pda strategies which I definitely think will help. It's him 100%

I would make a list of things you need to do. For example, you could start with:
-Speak to the primary school’s SENCO - I would do this urgently. DS needs support and an enhanced transition.
-Investigate whether you can self refer for an ASD &/or ADHD assessment - if you can’t ask the GP or nursery to refer.
-Read up and start using some PDA strategies, Yvonne Newbold’s strategies and things mentioned in Ross Greene’s book - it is trial and error, some will work, others won’t.

Hi @Ikeepontrying you mention restaurants and supermarkets being terrible. Sometimes children with sensory processing difficulties find those environments difficult to handle. Might be worth making a note of the situations that he struggles in. With SPD children are able to “zone in” and not get overwhelmed in situations that they find particularly fun or enjoyable - my child is a point in case and LOVES soft play, but can’t bear a classroom setting.

Also, and I don’t mean to be trite but is he getting enough sleep? My child is a horror when overtired and behaves in a very similar manner. What’s his toileting like? Any reason to believe that there may be food intolerances at play?

Don't be hard on yourself - you’ll get there x

I'll make a list tomorrow @ThomasWasTortured you've been so helpful.

I wonder if I should ring the health visitor or speak to nursery.

I'll definitely look at Yvonne's strategies now . Happy for all the help I can get now. I feel like I need more help than ds!

@Daffydilys Ah thank you!! Blood hope I find my way with all this. Can't help but feel awful and lost myself everyday which is why I'm desperate for advice.

Yes he gets plenty of sleep. I'm always quite routined with his bedtime, he fights it mostly which doesn't help and is starting to trigger me as literally every single thing is a battle at the moment.
I feel completely overwhelmed

I relate so much to this! My son is basically exactly the same. I was just googling "how to handle adhd naughty child" and came across this thread. I know naughty is an outdated word in some parenting circles but JESUS! It's apt sometimes isn't it?! He absolutely pushes me and his dad beyond belief, and no amount of exercise, praise or sticker charts effects him when he's in one of his manic moods (which come and go, sometimes with no obvious trigger).

People without such a child have no idea! I often wish I could just sit down to watch a film with him or something equally as calm but it's just go go go all the time.
Tbh it's not so much the energy and exercise needs I find hard, it's the hitting, bitting- constant threat of violence, the unpredictability at play dates, the meltdowns when I say no. The not going to bed. It's the defiance like you say.

My son is also 4, (5 in a few months) and at school. We're working with his SENCO to get a adhd referral (apparently a 18 month wait though!). I honestly don't know when it will get better so I'm sorry I'm not much help here, I just have to believe that all the "positive parenting" strategies will start working at some point soon for my sanity!

We had a bloody awful day/night yesterday so hoping it's easier today. Some days/ weeks are def harder than others- this hot weather isn't helping either as so humid at night and god only knows my son needs his sleep.

We love our boy so much, when he's not being, quite frankly aggressive and antagonistic he's kind, caring and very funny. I just hope as he gets older he'll be able to better manage the anger and aggression and the sweeter side of him will be more dominant! I hope you also have a better day today x

@Fearnecuptea Ah it's so incredibly hard isn't it.

It's actually a relief to hear others going Thro the same because most mums I speak to just say what I'm describing as normal and their children are the same but I can see they are definitely NOT the same. I've found that most frustrating and it's made me feel it's me being rubbish and just not coping etc.

How is your ds at meal times? It's a costa not struggle to get ds to sit and eat food. I know the answer is snacks and little and often but I need to include him in family meals and warm food.

Supermarkets or shops are just plain torture. He shouts and wants to touch absolutely everything. No amount of telling him no works. I've even left a shop before because he didn't listen but it happens again and I can't give up never going to a shop with him.

I'm fed up.

Maybe take him to the park, a bike ride with a picnic, swimming, play farm - do activities that he will enjoy. The slow service of restaurants is far too boring for a child.

I never take my boy anywhere near a supermarket (we get deliveries) and very occasionally to a restaurant (maybe once every 6 months or longer) both those things my boy finds highly boring and stressful. He's diagnosed with pda. I'd try to enjoy your little boy as if it is pda it only gets harder to the older they get .... (stronger, more refusals, more anxiety, less likely to engage with life)

Regarding food - my boy literally couldn't sit on a chair to eat he was too busy. Now he's medicated for adhd he has actually probably gone into overweight (gaming and eating beige foods 😭)

@fedupallthisrubbish
I do all those things, we go out everyday and are as active as possible. It's literally impossible not to take him to a shop occasionally. I try do main shops when he's at nursery but I can't avoid every shop.

It's really hard .... I really feel for you.

I just stopped taking my boy into any shop or go shopping when he was in nursery / with his dad as it was too stressful and he hated it..... which made everyone hate it

Some children can't cope with shops / restaurants but you have to do what you have to - good luck

Yeah totally agree, to be fair we don't go to restaurants often at all. It's been made worse as we've just come back from holiday so meal times in an all inclusive were horrendous. I won't be taking him to a restaurant for a long time

I know what you mean, IRL we know a few boys with ADHD, but my son is by far and away the most extreme. He never sits still, climbs on everything.
During meal times, he barely sits down and only eats a few things- plain pasta or pizza. Although tbf he does eat cucumber and peppers so we always try and ply him with those. He rarely eats more than half of what's on the plate anyway.
We hardly ever go to restaurants- unless we know the service is really quick, and even then we'll only go immediately at opening time when we're served quickly. It's not relaxing so we don't really bother.

It's so stressful as most things you read -strategies to help- are ineffective when the going gets tough! They're great when my son is feeling happy/cooperative but 20% they don't work at all. Also, I feel so patronised by the whole "be consistent with consequences", what does that mean exactly for kids with adhd who literally don't care if they don't get privileges, stickers or treats? I struggle so much when my son resists discipline. Whenever we go to play dates I feel so judged as he doesn't listen to me. Agh!

@Fearnecuptea Totally relate to everything you've just said. Ds doesn't listen to me but is even worse with other adults/his dad/grandparents etc. I feel judged all the time, esp in shops or at other peoples houses which I now avoid at all costs.
We too only go to restaurants at opening times when we've already decided online what we are eating just to get in and out as quick as possible. Ds just can not sit still. He finds it impossible. It's not a nice experience so hardly ever happens anymore.

I know what you mean, consequences make no difference and to be fair we are all human aren't we. I try to be consistent but some days I have off days and just feel at the end of my tether. Yesterday was a bad day and I just ended up crying myself.

Have you found any good advice or anything that helps? Any advice channels or groups?

Hi OP, been through this. Things that helped:

The book @ThomasWasTortured mentioned "The Explosive Child". It will make you feel less alone. There's lots of humane advice for parents in there. Another good one is Jeffrey Bernstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child.

I found a PDA parents' Facebook group for my area by looking at the listings on the websites for autism charities.

Google your council name plus "local offer" to find a list of local groups and organisations.

NVR is a good technique (Yvonne Newbold does it but there are other practitioners - we used New Leaf NVR). My DH was more engaged with this than the PDA group as it's basically all mums (mostly single as the other halves have buggered off and left them with the challenging children).

Seek a speech and language assessment. Just because your DC is articulate, doesn't mean there aren't language issues. We have this.

Save hard. You have to pay for most help.

Health visitors and GPs may be sympathetic but they generally don't know anything useful! I have had more than one interaction where they are writing down tips from me!

Do something just for yourself every week.

Why can’t you avoid the shops? (Genuine question.) It takes more planning and sometimes is slightly more expensive, but DS is telling you he can’t cope in shops. Taking him is setting him, and you, up to ‘fail’.

We don’t take teen DS1 shopping. He can’t cope, and it doesn’t end well for him or us.

We did almost entirely avoid shops with DD. We can take her in them now she's upper primary age. They're a massive sensory overload I guess.

Delegate food shopping to your husband, OP?

My DH's main contribution is that kind of stuff. Food shopping, cooking, driving.

We also mostly avoided restaurants. Again she can cope with them now. Wagamama was a bit of a breakthrough (likes the chopsticks).

A major boon for us was finding a small family owned holiday park when she was 4. Small shop, small soft play, small and well organised restaurant, bar, pool, playground. We've been there 10+ times.

A great place to role play "going to a shop" etc!