EHCP in a private school

[Acronymsandinitialisms]

My son, 8 and in year 3, is on long waiting lists with CAMHS for autism and ADHD.

He's bright, fun and interesting, but needs support with his anxiety and impulse control (hitting other children when provoked and shouting out in class being the most concerning and problematic). I really want him to stay in his current school as I think moving again (he moved into yr2 and this is his first proper year there because of lockdowns) would unsettle him, and he would think/know that it was because of his behaviour, and that would hurt him. Also, small class sizes, buckets of sport and outdoorsiness that work well for him.

A couple of people have mentioned looking into an EHCP. I don't expect this to cover school fees - we are fully prepared to do that - and I'm wondering what practical benefit an EHCP might have in a private school, and whether the school might be able to use it as an excuse to get rid of him if they decide they can't meet his stated needs. They are already talking about needing to find a new school if the hitting continues (it's roughly once or twice a term, usually in unsupervised time like in the playground and sometimes in response to someone hitting him first), and we're working hard on addressing this behaviour at the moment. If the EHCP offers any degree of protection from expulsion or access to additional resources in his current school then I'd be keen, but I don't want to give them the tool with which to lever him off their books.

We are considering private assessments, but this is very, very expensive, we're not rich, and these also have a waiting list, just not as long! Any advice/experiences welcome.

@perfectstorm you’ve given me an idea. I’m going to write this all down in a jargon handbook and save it as a pdf i can whatsapp or email to people if they need. I wish wish someone had had something like that they could have sent to me.

[quote NinaManiana]@perfectstorm you’ve given me an idea. I’m going to write this all down in a jargon handbook and save it as a pdf i can whatsapp or email to people if they need. I wish wish someone had had something like that they could have sent to me.[/quote]
That's a fantastic idea. You're so very lost at the start, I remember that feeling... but it's reflexive, once you've worked out which way is up! If you posted a thread asking people for things they would like to have known at the start, re. jargon and acronyms, I'd definitely contribute.

A parent fairly new to it all told me she'd thought SLT referred to the school leadership team for a good couple of months, so had believed she had to commission an assessment from one of them within the school. She's a teacher herself, and her school still call them SALTs.

I feel very overwhelmed and confused by everything right now. Sorry if I'm not replying much but I really appreciate the messages and information.

That was really useful, Kingsheath, thank you. I was a bit taken aback that the ADOS/SLT/ADHD assessment we paid for didn't really give us much idea what to do next (although it was helpful in lots of other ways).

Nina, put ELSA on your list (emotional and language? support assistant). I was confused with Frozen!

I meant to add that DD is in year 4 at a private prep and we haven't applied for an ECHP as yet.

We've been pushed out of a prep that kindly helped us apply for an EHCP but then before assessment was agrees, they said we'd have to pay for a full time TA to keep my child there, despite having TAS as standard in lower sets and not allowing my able daughter in those sets.

We've had an offer and a scholarship awarded at another private prep, having sent lots of private reports and having had multiple taster days - they withdrew the place and scholarship as soon as the draft EHCP was issued.

We've also found an amazing private secondary that were happy to work with the EHCP, had experience with other children with EHCPs and value our child. However, we needed to cast our net wide, much further from home than we'd have normally considered.

Be aware, for an EHCP to state enough needs that mean the LA mainstreams say no, your child is going to have to be quite complex, or at least look very complex on paper. This is enough to put off many independent mainstreams. If you want LA to pay in full then this will likely be the position you are in and is where we are.

If you are looking to pay fees but only request LA pay top up funding to the school then you might find you can get this with a child that would be otherwise placed in mainstream, pointing out how much money it will save the LA. However, some LAs very against this, others appear to welcome it.

Thanks sprongle, that's helpful, although I'm sorry you had to go through that.

oh and we applied Feb yr 6. I would def apply in yr 5 if you want a school named by Sept yr 7. Sometimes an LA will name current prep if there's only a couple of terms left with a view to trying to name a mainstream or a specialist in yr 7.

We got a private assessment and should get the report this week. Are we obliged to share it with his private school? Will they insist on seeing it? There are things that happen at home that don't seem relevant to his experience at school and I don't want to share them.

Yes, there is normally a catch to say you must share any relevant information so you could share a redacted report with all the home stuff taken out, but that might be more concerning than just sharing the whole report. If you don't it is easy for them to remove the place, if they find out.

@Acronymsandinitialisms

I'm more concerned that they'll say that they can't provide the adjustments or support recommended.

If they say that then this is not the right school for him.

If we decide to/have to move him to the state system, will a mainstream state school ask to see the private report, or can we transfer him no questions asked and then think about getting an EHCP?

It would be a good idea to share some or all of the report with whatever state school you move to so they can support DS’s needs better. Just because you see the behaviour at home doesn’t mean the problems are at home, often it is a result of unmet needs at school. Look up the coke bottle effect.

If there is a place the only reason mainstream state schools can refuse an in year admission for DC without an EHCP because of their additional needs is if they have good reason to believe the pupil may display challenging behaviour and compared to other local schools they have a high proportion of pupils with challenging behaviour or previously permanently excluded pupils and admitting another pupil with challenging behaviour would result in the inefficient education of others or inefficient use of resources.

You can apply for an EHCNA now, you don’t need to wait.

Basically, I told the psychologist that he hits and kicks me in a rage sometimes and that sometimes he refuses to do what I ask him to and I'm absolutely terrified that I've ruined his life by marking him as violent and uncooperative when he really isn't 99% of the time. I'd had a bad day when I wrote it and I was dwelling on the rough times over the years. I would give anything to take it back but I know it will go on his report. I made it all sound so bad.

I think his current school will kick him out when they see he is aggressive at home and I won't be able to get him into another private school as they all insist on seeing reports before admitting a child. I don't think a specialist school would be the right setting for him.

We can't afford anything like a TA at a private school - we're only just managing the fees as it is. Is it likely that the report will recommend a TA?

I am so afraid and feel so guilty. For over a week, I have barely been able to function and it's literally all I can think about. The only time I'm not obsessing about it is when I'm asleep, so I've been sleeping a lot.

You don’t need to be afraid or guilty. DS’s behaviour at home may be because of unmet needs at school, hiding that from school won’t help.

No one here can tell you whether the report will recommend 1:1 or not. Was the private assessment for an ASD &/or ADHD? A EP assessment is more likely make such recommendations, if necessary, than an ASD or ADHD diagnostic report. A TA can be funded via an EHCP in state or independent schools.

@perfectstorm
@KingsHeath53

Thank you very much for your detailed posts. I am so confused now though !
My almost 6Y is on the pathway with the pediatric team of a large nhs hospital in London for a ADHD assessment, we are due a first screening call with a clinical nurse in May. I looked at one private place assessment, but they won’t see my child until turning 6 in July due to the questionnaires they use which are designed for children 6-18.
So I am now in two minds, initially I thought we should stay with the nhs all the way, unless taking years but reading your comments in relation to the level of details we get from the a private assessment I am not sure anymore which way to go. We can afford the private assessment, But would want to have shared care with GP to have the meds prescription on the nhs going forward.
School has already made some allowances but I have no doubt more interventions are needed, including some 1 to 1 to help, but it helpful to have a professional specifying which ones. So any advice is very welcome
Thanks !

[quote 11plusNewbie]@perfectstorm
@KingsHeath53

Thank you very much for your detailed posts. I am so confused now though !
My almost 6Y is on the pathway with the pediatric team of a large nhs hospital in London for a ADHD assessment, we are due a first screening call with a clinical nurse in May. I looked at one private place assessment, but they won’t see my child until turning 6 in July due to the questionnaires they use which are designed for children 6-18.
So I am now in two minds, initially I thought we should stay with the nhs all the way, unless taking years but reading your comments in relation to the level of details we get from the a private assessment I am not sure anymore which way to go. We can afford the private assessment, But would want to have shared care with GP to have the meds prescription on the nhs going forward.
School has already made some allowances but I have no doubt more interventions are needed, including some 1 to 1 to help, but it helpful to have a professional specifying which ones. So any advice is very welcome
Thanks ![/quote]
Hi @11plusNewbie.

I think NHS is every bit as good for the diagnosis itself, and the one question I would have there is: is the ADHD meaning he's at risk of hurting himself, and/or meaning he is constantly told off for things he can't help? If that's a yes, as it was with my daughter, then I would consider private diagnosis. If no, as with my son, then NHS is fine. Both have ASD diagnoses, and I paid for my son, but not for my daughter, because again: NHS is fine.

All a diagnosis does is explain likely vulnerabilities and behaviours, and engage the Equality Act. It doesn't mean an EHCP will follow, or indeed any support at all worth having. It just says a child has X, other than ADHD where medication can help (which was why we had my girl diagnosed).

Assessments by Occupational Therapists and Speech and Language Therapists, if they are excellent and specialist in your child's presentation (so, for example, a bright autistic child with social struggles doesn't get seen by someone who is a whizz with cleft palates, and stuttering, but has no clue around autism) are invaluable. And in my experience, excellent NHS practitioners and excellent private ones say the same things, in the first couple of pages. But after that, the divergence is stark. NHS and LA employees are not allowed to recommend anything that costs much money, and that is especially true, for reasons I do not understand, when it comes to autism. Private ones can. So my kids have similar reports from private and state, except the private ones go on to specify, in minute detail, exactly how much support, both directly from a therapist and by school staff trained by that therapist (and training is specified, too) they must have. The skill level and experience of the therapist is also specified.

What I didn't know, for rather too long, is this: if you have a report from a trusted, reputable professional, stating that your child needs something, then almost all the time, a tribunal are going to order that the LA provides that something. And while assessments are a gamble, because those good and reputable professionals are not going to lie, so if your child doesn't need that something, they won't have a report saying they do... in my case, with my kids, all the reports came back saying they needed a lot. A lot. It got to the point that recently I had reports back saying glasses could sort something I'd feared they would need a load more clinical therapy over, and I was ecstatic. £500 for an assessment, to basically say that they didn't need the assessment?! WOO HOO! Because I'd never had an assessment that did that, before. They all kept uncovering more and more crap I'd not known my poor kids contended with.

And that's the other reason assessments of that detail, and independence level, are vital. You can't know what your child's needs are unless and until such an assessment has been done. Where special needs are in the frame, I would never hesitate again, and I always recommend that other people get them done.

A diagnosis is a diagnosis is a diagnosis, if the clinician is qualified. It's just a name that explains a cluster of behaviour. It doesn't get your child a single thing, in support terms. Assessments do that.

Diagnostics and NHS, all the way (unless ADHD meds are at issue, in which case I'd also get that sorted as swiftly as possible - which may also mean private). Needs assessment? Private. All day long, and twice on Sundays. My one regret is not getting my son assessed a decade ago.

@Acronymsandinitialisms

Basically, I told the psychologist that he hits and kicks me in a rage sometimes and that sometimes he refuses to do what I ask him to and I'm absolutely terrified that I've ruined his life by marking him as violent and uncooperative when he really isn't 99% of the time. I'd had a bad day when I wrote it and I was dwelling on the rough times over the years. I would give anything to take it back but I know it will go on his report. I made it all sound so bad.

I think his current school will kick him out when they see he is aggressive at home and I won't be able to get him into another private school as they all insist on seeing reports before admitting a child. I don't think a specialist school would be the right setting for him.

We can't afford anything like a TA at a private school - we're only just managing the fees as it is. Is it likely that the report will recommend a TA?

I am so afraid and feel so guilty. For over a week, I have barely been able to function and it's literally all I can think about. The only time I'm not obsessing about it is when I'm asleep, so I've been sleeping a lot.

@Acronymsandinitialisms this is really normal, what you describe. It just means he isn't getting his needs met, which means it isn't the right place for him. It's not your fault, and I don't mean to scare you, but after a few years of what you describe my son ended up with PTSD. You can't lie about how unhappy he is, when behaviour such as that is communication.

There are good independent schools that work hard to support kids like ours. Really, there are. In the times we are about to enter, quite a lot of independent schools may find they stay afloat doing exactly that. My daughter's school is very small, and she is the 5th with her profile and an EHCP on roll. It may be more common than you realise - and that's also something you can check (numbers of EHCP and SEN support within the intake), even for an independent school, on the government schools dashboard.

Please don't feel guilty for being honest with the person employed to help your child. What sort of parent would you be if you didn't? He's not always going to be smaller than you. You need help, because if he doesn't get his needs met, you could end up with a teenager who has explosive and violent episodes, and that's a very different scenario.

My son was aggressive and violent at home, in his earlier school years. It seems impossible now. He's 13, and the sweetest, gentlest, most soft kid you could hope to meet. He was just pushed beyond endurance. Your son deserves better than that, and well done you for trying to secure it from him. I don't see that you had any choice, as a responsible parent, but honesty with the psychologist.

@perfectstorm
yes DC gets in trouble in school for things that can't be help linked to impulsivity and hyperactivity so like doing silly things, blurting out, occasional case of lashing out to other children if frustrated by something, occasionally refusing to sit down and do the work that requires more sustained effort, some defiance to adults. break time or lunch time which are less structured are more likely to be problematic, can't work independently and needs lots of support prompting, despite being very bright.
manages to stay afloat/within with lots of support but feels could do much better academically if only could listen and stay on task and

Hi @11plusNewbie - yeah, that sounds like my daughter.

I have a friend from college who is a consultant paediatrician and who also has a child with ADHD. She told me who she'd used for her own son, and who I therefore used for my daughter. She's a senior NHS consultant within CAMHS and also provides private care - she's called Dr Maite Ferrin. Diagnosis from her cost us just under £1000. We had her triate the meds, and when that was successful she wrote a letter to the GP handing over that care to them. (The NHS are not allowed to refuse to provide care just because part has been done privately - if you'd be entitled had the earlier part been done on the NHS, you are just as entitled if it was done privately - we have been on the NHS ever since, including local paeds checking her meds every year.)

We went here to see her: recognitionhealth.com/team-members/dr-maite-ferrin/

We were seen within weeks. It's been absolutely life changing for my daughter.

Oh, and Dr Ferrin told us that it's a lot easier to know if it is 'just' the ADHD, or whether something else is in play, if you can get the meds right. She also recommended a book (in our case, on ADHD in girls, but sure she would have good recs for you) - you'd be surprised how much ODD and PDA behaviours are linked to misery in neurodiverse kids. Both mine showed them at times until they had needs met.

My daughter is also autistic, which became clearer when she was calmer and happier with her ADHD impulsivity and distractibility more controlled. But she's no longer angry or aggressive. She just has that extra bit of executive function now, and it makes all the difference.

I don't know about under six prescribing, I'm afraid, as my daughter was 6 at the time. I do know that medication for her was vital. No child should feel they're always being scolded, and can't help it no matter how they try. If six is indeed the threshold, I'd want it on the birthday if it would help. And I'd want assessment earlier, as if it isn't ADHD you need to know what else is going on.

Hang on in there. It gets better, once you understand what the hell is going on, and how you can help them effectively.

@perfectstorm thank you so much, you have suddenly opened up a whole new world !!!!
and it is for my daughter too, would you remember the name of the book by any chance ?
Can I please just ask if the diagnosis from Dr Ferrin came with a detailed treatment plan and how you used it ? was it accepted by your school "as is" or was it used for the EHCP ? or both ??
the private psychiatrist I have been looking at uses questionnaires designed for children 6 and upward, so they wouldn't assess before 6Y as well. I have looked at other places recommended on here and some won't even see them until they are 7Y, the reasons were not stated, I am not across these ages constraints.
thank you so much

Sorry, I have only just seen this.

The book is this one: www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Girls-ADHD-They-Feel/dp/B08BDQRH7D/

Dr Ferrin's report set out what needed to happen next (including an autism assessment...) in detail, yes. The NHS accepted the report and started providing meds via free prescriptions, as Dr Ferrin is a respected NHS clinician so her expertise wasn't questioned. The school were hopeless, but the LA actually very good and supported us - with the other reports we had from OT, SLT and EP - in getting her an EHCP. That EHCP was not initially terribly useful, but I was lucky in having found a really good direct access barrister, who was able to negotiate some changes with the LA which made it a solidly enforceable one. We didn't need to appeal, as I wasn't needing to ask for as much as I had with my son. We'd got to my daughter much, much earlier, which meant she had much lower needs. Years of trauma and inadequate support tend to do that, which is why I am such an advocate for getting assessments done asap. All too often (and we did this ourselves with my poor oldest) a child is assessed because the problems are really obvious. But that's late intervention and not early - and everyone says, correctly, that early intervention is key. I'd book your child in literally the week after they turn six, in your position.

That school placement failed, after she'd had to go on to a part time timetable from the stress she was being caused, and then it was cheaper to place her in a private school with similar kids already being supported than it was for the LA to have to provide specialist support in a state mainstream. (I didn't ask, nor expect, the LA to fund a private school for her, at first instance. It was just the most practical solution in delivering her EHCP provision effectively, as no state school could do it, and the only one willing to try said she'd need a 1:1 TA, which I emphatically did not want and which doubled the cost of the EHCP.)

If your child has anxiety around noise, and struggles to process what you say to her, it may also be worth having her screened for Auditory Processing Disorder? The NHS clinic has a six month waiting list, and needs the local audiology people to have explored physical issues with hearing first, but they are great with my son. With my daughter, I wanted to rule APD out when her first placement failed, so took her to the private clinic: www.lhabc.co.uk

It was really helpful. She doesn't have APD, which was a relief, but she does have hyperacusis so a large class would always be an issue. It was another reason she needed independent school. My son needs classes of 6 or fewer, as he has genuine APD, but she needs classes of fewer than 20, and some adjustments. Issues around auditory processing are far more common in people with neurodiversities. It's interesting; it's linked to balance, and an awful lot of kids I know from SEN groups who are autistic also get terrible travel sickness - again, often an audiovestibular problem.

All of the above is really expensive, and we are not well off. At all. But both kids have really great educational provision now, and are happy. And both were suffering real trauma - medically assessed as doing so - before. It's depressingly common, for kids with ADHD and autism, in the wrong educational setting. I would always, always get them assessed. My one regret is that I didn't know how vital it was for my son until his age was in double figures.

Dear perfectstorm I just wanted to say that I have found your posts really informative. Thanks so much. I'm glad both your DC have the right provision now.

We've got the report now and I'm a bit disappointed with the recommendations they've made: they are cut and paste generic advice for autistic children and don't apply specifically to my child. I think I'm going to need to build a list of recommendations via his OT and counsellor.