EHCP in a private school

[Acronymsandinitialisms]

My son, 8 and in year 3, is on long waiting lists with CAMHS for autism and ADHD.

He's bright, fun and interesting, but needs support with his anxiety and impulse control (hitting other children when provoked and shouting out in class being the most concerning and problematic). I really want him to stay in his current school as I think moving again (he moved into yr2 and this is his first proper year there because of lockdowns) would unsettle him, and he would think/know that it was because of his behaviour, and that would hurt him. Also, small class sizes, buckets of sport and outdoorsiness that work well for him.

A couple of people have mentioned looking into an EHCP. I don't expect this to cover school fees - we are fully prepared to do that - and I'm wondering what practical benefit an EHCP might have in a private school, and whether the school might be able to use it as an excuse to get rid of him if they decide they can't meet his stated needs. They are already talking about needing to find a new school if the hitting continues (it's roughly once or twice a term, usually in unsupervised time like in the playground and sometimes in response to someone hitting him first), and we're working hard on addressing this behaviour at the moment. If the EHCP offers any degree of protection from expulsion or access to additional resources in his current school then I'd be keen, but I don't want to give them the tool with which to lever him off their books.

We are considering private assessments, but this is very, very expensive, we're not rich, and these also have a waiting list, just not as long! Any advice/experiences welcome.

An EHCP can provide support, interventions and therapies in excess of what would otherwise typically be available without the need to sit on waiting lists. OT, SALT, MH therapies, emotional literacy support, TA support, alternative provision etc.

Not all LAs will come to an agreement whereby parents pay the fees and the LA pay the SEN provision, some LAs will say the parents are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby they are relieved of their duties. Some will, some won’t. However, it is possible for an EHCP to cover both the school fees and the special educational provision.

Don’t make your decision on applying for an EHCNA based on whether you think the school will ask DS to leave if he does get one. It sounds like they are on the verge of doing so anyway. In order to name a wholly independent school in an EHCP you require an offer of a place from the school, you will also need to prove either the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DS’s needs or the cost isn’t unreasonable public expenditure.

We are applying for an EHCP for my DS and he is currently at an independent MS school. The school have been amazing with support but we have realised that none of our local independent secondary schools will accept DS. We will pay the fees for year 6 and then he will most probably need to go into state MS with support. If you can’t afford a private assessment, you definitely won’t be able to afford specialist secondary fees. His current school don’t sound great either. I was a great supporter of SEN in the independent sector until I realised that my son’s school
Is fantastic but most are not prepared to educate autistic children, no matter how academic or ‘high functioning’ they are.

On my son's school website they say that they don't currently have any pupils with an EHCP, which speaks volumes to me.

Sadly many indie MS aren’t supportive of pupils with SEN, however I don’t necessarily think you can read too much into not having any pupils with EHCPs. You would need to know more about your LA to make a judgement, some LAs barely place any DC with EHCPs in indie MS (and where they do it is often via appeal), whereas other LAs do more often. According to the gov website of the 1470 independent schools (and that includes some independent SS) who admit primary pupils 695 do not have any pupils with EHCPs.

Some independents are amazing with kids with EHCPs. My daughter is the 5th in her school, from 200, and it's a mainstream private primary. Our LA are sending her there, paying fees, because it's gentler, smaller and less stressful than maintained sector. Frankly, it feels a bit weird having school fees paid, but we couldn't afford them alongside the private assessments both our kids need. And I am at home with our eldest, as school trauma in primary means he needs a formal EOTAS (bespoke home ed, paid for by the LA, at the same level as a specialist school) and I have to oversee it all.

Private assessments tend to be much more detailed and precise than NHS and LA, and even more importantly - state ones, and they are not allowed to specify, exactly, the minimum provision your child needs. Private ones are. Children with reports that quantify and specify provision get that provision in their EHCPs, if their parents push and insist on it. Kids without those reports don't. So it absolutely, absolutely matters. Both my kids have great EHCPs now, and the provision they need. My son is doing massively better now that is all in place, and my daughter has been spared the trauma my son suffered at her age, from lack of it. It's vital, frankly.

Having your child thoroughly and properly assessed is an investment. My best ever assessment was for APD, which my son has - and my daughter's report came back saying she doesn't. (She has issues, but at a much greater level in that regard.) It's the only report that came back better than expected, for either of them, and I feel like framing it! That's the hope. But at the same time, if the hope is unfounded, then at least I understand their issues, and how to address them. That's worth everything.

Get your child assessed if you can possibly, possibly afford it. You don't know what their needs are unless you do. A friend's son was angry, unable to learn, and starting to be aggressive with peers in his independent primary. He now has SLT, OT, and a 1:1 TA and is doing great academically... and playing rugby. He scored a try! His assessments, and EHCP, changed everything for him.

We have a weird idea that needs like this should be ignored as identification is 'labelling'. I have heard it so many times. All I know is that my son's issues were far worse, because they weren't supported, in the past. And nobody would suggest that we should avoid diagnosis for any other condition - especially ones that get harder to live with, if left unsupported.

Neurodiverse kids blame themselves for their struggles, if not assessed and properly helped. And then everyone's surprised that as a cohort, they have huge mental health problems.

This is all so interesting as we are waiting for a diagnosis for DS as well. After many years on the NHS waiting list. Perfect Storm - are you saying we should do a private assessment regardless of the NHS one?
Life is very difficult at the moment with DS. He is also in an Indy prep.

@ittakesavillage2

This is all so interesting as we are waiting for a diagnosis for DS as well. After many years on the NHS waiting list. Perfect Storm - are you saying we should do a private assessment regardless of the NHS one? Life is very difficult at the moment with DS. He is also in an Indy prep.

Absolutely. They are more detailed, and they will, if they're decent medico-legal experts, carefully set out the provision exactly as it should appear in an EHCP.

NHS and LA reports may sometimes be good - some of ours are - but they are prevented by their funding model from ever recommending anything costing much. Even if your child very badly needs direct provision from eg a SLT and/or OT, no report for a reasonably able ASD child will recommend that.

In our county, you're offered school access to a phone helpline for OT. Apparently an OT who has never met the child, read their reports, or seen them can advise on their OT needs.

My son gets 1:1 support from specialist OT and SLT practitioners expert with his exact presentation, solely because we had strong reports setting out the tests they did, and their evidence on why he needs it. And then minutely specified provision.

You have a report like that, and a tribunal will almost always order the provision, and if the LA/NHS don't offer that level, or specialist work, then the LA must fund a private clinician who does.

It's very important that the independent clinician is good, honest and medico-legal. They all have a reputation, and you don't want that reputation to be, "will say whatever the parent wants." You want it to be, "Doesn't care who is paying them: the report will be accurate." Some clinicians are just bad, too, and parents pay in good faith for something that's less useful than a competent LA/NHS one. Poor observations and no properly specified provision equals a failed child, and squandered money.

Our children's EHCPs didn't reach a hearing. We had excellent legal advice, excellent reports, and didn't ask for anything the kids didn't genuinely need.

I really can't stress it enough: you need, if you can remotely possibly afford them, good private reports. Good legal help is very useful indeed, but without the reports, there's no real case for the provision.

I also personally think confirmation bias plays in.

NHS/LA clinicians are trained in an environment where money is a constant struggle, and without even being aware of it, they are likely to underplay needs. But most clinicians are also reasonably decent in ethical terms, and have their own pride, so if they read a report that is clearly solid, and expert, and sets out well-evidenced high needs (IF your child has them) then they will start from that position. And their findings will trend towards that, too.

It's wrong that people who can afford (or who borrow to afford) private reports can secure a level of provision other kids do not access. But that's the reality.

There is a hidden system of support, only accessed via independent reports and the EHCP appeal system, and I wish to God I'd known about it before my son's age was in double figures, as we did with my daughter.

I would add, though, that you need to be sensible. My daughter's SLT provision is massively lower than my son's, because so are her needs. If we want more 1:1 clinical provision, then we will need to use her DLA to pay for it. State -funded provision is meant to be a good sensible family car, not a Rolls. But you don't have to accept the LA offer of a Robin Reliant with only 2 wheels, either. You have no right to expect the state to provide the absolute best, but your child does have every right to an educational provision that can meet their needs, so they can in fact access education. That's the goal you should, ideally, be aiming for.

If they couldn't cope at all in a mainstream state school, then it may be cheaper for the LA to fund an independent placement, with good SENCO and understanding, plus therapies, than it would to send them to a specialist school. That's where we are with my daughter, after she couldn't cope with mainstream after Yr 1 - we tried another year, it was clearly a disaster, and now the LA are funding indie. But if she could cope with the right support in a mainstream, then obviously the state shouldn't have to pay for private. It's all about needs, and you need to be able to evidence those needs.

@ittakesavillage2

This is all so interesting as we are waiting for a diagnosis for DS as well. After many years on the NHS waiting list. Perfect Storm - are you saying we should do a private assessment regardless of the NHS one? Life is very difficult at the moment with DS. He is also in an Indy prep.

Oh, and one other thing - with autism, the diagnosis is not actually that helpful. It tells you the cause of the issues they face in that you have the diagnostic label, but not what they need, and why.

We had my son privately diagnosed (but by a very senior NHS professional) at five. We then expected the NHS and LA to do all that was necessary. Nothing happened. This is the norm. It's a label, and that's not much use, alone. We had him assessed by an EP, SLT and OT when he was 10/11 and suddenly huge, huge needs were uncovered. He has dyspraxia, the OT report found, and that got a swift paeds assessment to diagnose, which in turn meant NHS physio provision. He has Auditory Processing Disorder, and now attends an NHS specialist clinic in London. And he has a great EHCP.

With my daughter, we paid for an ADHD diagnostic assessment when she was 6, so the meds could relieve the worst of the hyperactivity, and we could see how much of the ASD traits were left, and then when they were clearly coming to the fore, not disappearing, we paid for detailed OT, SLT and then ed psych report. The diagnosis came as part of the EHCP assessment, and was LA/NHS funded (the Code says that any reasonable request by parents for assessment must be met, and we had a stack of reports by then all saying she needed ASD assessment). The Statutory Assessment process has a 20 week deadline. So it's a lot faster than the years-long usual waiting list.

If people can afford it, then there are good options for independent ASD diagnostics, below £2000.

www.pebbleautism.co.uk
help4psychology.co.uk

Both are just as good as the massively expensive diagnostics. Being outside London helps there.

If a family earn less than £45,000 (not including benefits) then Caudwell will assess for free, at the moment, and when that funding runs out they will still pay £80% of the costs.

www.caudwellchildren.com/ccas-charity-funded-autism-assessment/

But as I say, I think SLT, OT and EP are more important, because EHCPs are based on needs. A diagnosis does not tell you those. Again: with my eldest, we paid to diagnose, and then five years later paid to assess, and those later ones secured the support. With my daughter, we paid to assess (other than ADHD, because of the medications being needed) and those assessments founded the support.

If you can't afford both assessments and diagnosis, go for the assessments. Every time. And make sure the people recommending have actually used the clinicians, or know someone close who has, and in either event you need to know that a child secured good support with their aid.

Apologies for the spam. I just so wish I'd known all of this when my own son was small. There's a reason my daughter's needs are so much lower - we got to her in time.

@perfectstorm

Apologies for the spam. I just so wish I'd known all of this when my own son was small. There's a reason my daughter's needs are so much lower - we got to her in time.

So incredibly helpful, thank you for such a detailed response

I don't know the difference between paying for assessment and paying for diagnosis. I'm on a waiting list with a local clinic which is listed on a page on our county's autism charity website. This is for a dual assessment for autism and ADHD. I'm just very afraid that his school will look at these assessments and say well that's not possible here, go find another school. I don't think my son would cope at all well with moving.

If the school won't keep him, then it's not a school able to meet his needs.

There are plenty of good schools, state and independent, that work hard to include children with disabilities. And there are also kids who need a specialist setting, which can meet their needs. A friend's son is at Swalcliffe Park - a school for able, autistic kids without challenging behaviour - and he said, "I love it, mum. I'm in a school with boys just like me." He is thriving. As is my son, for whom no school at all could work, but who took a maths GCSE mock last week, at 13, and got a 9, and who is the gentlest, kindest and most empathetic person I've ever met.

Autism isn't some terrible affliction, for lots of people. It's being different. But a life of constantly being different is painful and hard, and in some cases, a good specialist is a great deal better for that child than a mainstream would be. No child should feel like the red-headed stepchild in the place where they spend most of their waking hours.

The only way to know if he's in the right place is to have the Occupational Therapy and Speech and Language therapy reports done, and a good ed psych assessment, too. Without those, a diagnosis doesn't tell you much.

And a school fine with a child until advised that that child had a diagnosis would break the law. They are bound by the Equality Act. It would be direct discrimination. But... I wouldn't want my child in that school, anyway.

I'm more concerned that they'll say that they can't provide the adjustments or support recommended.

The assessments don't really make recommendations, if they're from truly reputable medico-legal clinicians. They very precisely set out the minimum vitally necessary adjustments and provisions a child must have, if they are to be able to access an education and/or avoid serious psychiatric injury. That's why the state can be forced to fund them. Short of something being absolutely necessary, parents have to pay.

By definition, a school that can't provide what is identified as being vitally necessary, and to a legal standard of proof, is not a good school for that child.

Obviously, we all have to act in the way we feel best serves our child's interests, and I'm just some random on the internet. It's you who will have to live with whatever choices are made. Without a crystal ball, all any of us can do is our best. I wish you well, whatever path you choose.

We are in a slightly different situation. My year 2 child has a diagnosis of ADHD and is on medication. Was referred to community paediatrics age 6 and we were seen for assessment within a few months, and started medication - this has helped so much. Is community paediatrics an options? Perhaps the waiting list would be shorter?

Currently in state primary and the school initiated assessment for EHCP - this was prior to medication and the council were incredibly supportive and he received the highest level of funding. We feel really fortunate both the hospital and council have been so amazing. To apply for EHCP evidence needs to be built in school, along with input from educational psychology, OT and perhaps other professionals.

School have been very good but we are taking the plunge and moving to independent at year 3 for various reasons. The council have agreed to move the top up funding and we will pay the fees. Child performed well at the assessment (v bright) and we have had a meeting to discuss the EHCP - need to probe further but hope the funding will support some 1:1 TA as required (less so since starting medication). I really hope the move goes well and that the small class sizes / educational opportunities / small class size help him.

I think you may need to encourage the school to apply for an EHCP? I think you can trigger this personally with the council? Speak to IPSEA for advice? I don’t think they can “expel” if child has SEN and they taking measures to support needs eg EHCP.

Your child will thrive with the correct diagnosis / school / support. I don’t think there is any benefit in ignoring the issues and the school really should be supporting you - especially as you are paying high fees. Meet with the head and SEN lead (if there is one?)

Whether a referral is made to CAMHS or community paediatrics for ASD and ADHD depends on what area you are in. In some CCGs the pathway is via CAMHS and in others it is via community paediatrics, and in some it depends on the child’s age as to who assess.

To apply for EHCP evidence needs to be built in school, along with input from educational psychology, OT and perhaps other professionals.

You don’t need EP, OT or other professional input to apply, that is part of the Needs Assessment. The only legal threshold for the EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test such as 2 cycles of assess/plan/do/review by the school is unlawful.

I don’t think they can “expel” if child has SEN and they taking measures to support needs eg EHCP.

Schools can give FTE and permanently exclude a child with SEN, they just have to follow the correct procedure. Even if the behaviour is a result of the child’s disability the school can exclude if there is a legitimate reason such as citing health and safety.

@Imitatingdory

Whether a referral is made to CAMHS or community paediatrics for ASD and ADHD depends on what area you are in. In some CCGs the pathway is via CAMHS and in others it is via community paediatrics, and in some it depends on the child’s age as to who assess.

To apply for EHCP evidence needs to be built in school, along with input from educational psychology, OT and perhaps other professionals.

You don’t need EP, OT or other professional input to apply, that is part of the Needs Assessment. The only legal threshold for the EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test such as 2 cycles of assess/plan/do/review by the school is unlawful.

I don’t think they can “expel” if child has SEN and they taking measures to support needs eg EHCP.

Schools can give FTE and permanently exclude a child with SEN, they just have to follow the correct procedure. Even if the behaviour is a result of the child’s disability the school can exclude if there is a legitimate reason such as citing health and safety.

Private schools are a bit different in that they don't 'have' to educate anyone, not like comprehensives. So they can say any child either doesn't meet the academic criteria or behaviour policy of the school and remove them without ever mentioning SEN. It's a totally different ballgame to comprehensives.

I've been through the same with my own son who is in private school and has SEN and took legal advice when they were trying to remove him. The advice was if they decided to do it, there wasn't anything we could really do about that other than threaten to go to the press.

@Acronymsandinitialisms

We've been through your exact journey. Will try and keep this brief as a lot of content on this post:

1. Get the EHCP. Your son might not be in the school forever and the EHCP will go with him wherever he goes. I think something that's been missed in your understanding is that the point of the EHCP is is a funding document. So it says 'this child needs x, y and z' and the local authority will provide MONEY to cover it. In my experience, private schools love this because it means they get your fees and then EXTRA FREE money from the state to help your kid.

1. If the school doesn't have any other kids with EHCPs, long term it may not be the right place for him. We're taking my son out of his (very lovely) private school in the next year or so as he's just a square peg in a round hole.

1. Private assessments. You don't pay for a diagnosis, you pay for an assessment. At the end of it if they feel a diagnosis is appropriate, they will give one, if they don't, they won't. You can pay a pediatric psychiatrist to do an asd / adhd assessment on your kid. They will do paperwork and send out questionnaires etc. We did this with my son. Crucially, a lot of child psychiatrists work both privately AND in the NHS. We used one who also works for CAMHS and he used the same methods in diagnosing my son as the NHS would have used. This means when we got to the top of the NHS waiting list a year later, they looked at the paperwork and literally just accepted the diagnosis and we went straight to getting care. So one to think about.

@Acronymsandinitialisms

One more thing, I wish someone had told me way back when. Assessments:

1. ADHD / Autism assessment: this is a medical diagnosis which will be given by a doctor if they think your child has either or both of the above. This is a diagnosis like getting diagnosed with a cough. They might prescribe medicine but they would not prescribe what to do next like educationally.

If you are worried about what the school think by the way, you wouldn't need to even tell them about the diagnosis. We didn't for ages.

1. Occupational therapy assessment: this is where an occupational therapist would look at your child's sensory needs and propose a course of things to do to help with this.

1. Educational psychology assessment: this looks at how your child learns and behaves in the classroom and would suggest what they need in order to learn best including adaptations, one to one etc.

1. Clinical psychology assessment: looks at your child's underlying cognitive capability, basically their capacity to learn. Often done side by side with the educational psychology assessment, as if a child has an IQ of zero, no amount of classroom adaptation is going to help them cope basically (exaggerating to make my point here, I know no one has an IQ of zero).

1. Speech and language assessment: looks at a child's speech and also their communication. For ASD this is like can they hold a reciprocal conversation, show socially appropriate interest in others etc. Makes recommendations about support your child might need in those things.

^^I hope this is helpful. It took me literally 18 months to unpick what all those different things were and were for.

Kingsheath I’m not quite sure why you have quoted me because I didn’t say any wholly independent school had to educate anyone. I replied midgetmoo’s post, saying ”I don’t think they can “expel” if child has SEN and they taking measures to support needs eg EHCP.” which isn’t correct. But even independent schools have to stick to the Equality Act, and via a Disability Discrimination claim parents can, and have successfully, challenged indie MS illegally forcing a child out. As to whether you would want your child there is another matter.

@Imitatingdory sorry don't use mumsnet often and didn't know how to add to the thread

@Imitatingdory

Whether a referral is made to CAMHS or community paediatrics for ASD and ADHD depends on what area you are in. In some CCGs the pathway is via CAMHS and in others it is via community paediatrics, and in some it depends on the child’s age as to who assess.

To apply for EHCP evidence needs to be built in school, along with input from educational psychology, OT and perhaps other professionals.

You don’t need EP, OT or other professional input to apply, that is part of the Needs Assessment. The only legal threshold for the EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test such as 2 cycles of assess/plan/do/review by the school is unlawful.

I don’t think they can “expel” if child has SEN and they taking measures to support needs eg EHCP.

Schools can give FTE and permanently exclude a child with SEN, they just have to follow the correct procedure. Even if the behaviour is a result of the child’s disability the school can exclude if there is a legitimate reason such as citing health and safety.

I’m relatively new to this and just explaining my experience @Imitatingdory

I just feel it would be incredibly poor for the school to expel without even attempting to engage with the EHCP process.

Perhaps we are just very fortunate but in our area the referral was acted on very quickly by community paediatrics.

@Midgeymoo12 your experience sounds so positive! Great to hear stories like this on here. Kids with ADHD are worst when they're bored so hopefully in a private school with the resources to stretch him and keep him interested it should minimise the disruptive impact of the ADHD

[quote KingsHeath53]@Acronymsandinitialisms

One more thing, I wish someone had told me way back when. Assessments:

1. ADHD / Autism assessment: this is a medical diagnosis which will be given by a doctor if they think your child has either or both of the above. This is a diagnosis like getting diagnosed with a cough. They might prescribe medicine but they would not prescribe what to do next like educationally.

If you are worried about what the school think by the way, you wouldn't need to even tell them about the diagnosis. We didn't for ages.

1. Occupational therapy assessment: this is where an occupational therapist would look at your child's sensory needs and propose a course of things to do to help with this.

1. Educational psychology assessment: this looks at how your child learns and behaves in the classroom and would suggest what they need in order to learn best including adaptations, one to one etc.

1. Clinical psychology assessment: looks at your child's underlying cognitive capability, basically their capacity to learn. Often done side by side with the educational psychology assessment, as if a child has an IQ of zero, no amount of classroom adaptation is going to help them cope basically (exaggerating to make my point here, I know no one has an IQ of zero).

1. Speech and language assessment: looks at a child's speech and also their communication. For ASD this is like can they hold a reciprocal conversation, show socially appropriate interest in others etc. Makes recommendations about support your child might need in those things.

^^I hope this is helpful. It took me literally 18 months to unpick what all those different things were and were for.[/quote]
A few years ago, people kept talking about a sensory diet, and how an OT would sort one for your child. My son couldn't eat much at all, for sensory reasons, so I thought a sensory diet meant they'd work out a nutritious food plan for him. Had no clue that wasn't remotely correct, because I thought I understood the term so never asked anyone. It took another parent to explain that no, it was a range of physical activities that would properly regulate sensory feedback, which should be consistently engaged with, to help his emotional state.

It takes a while to understand it all, and the problem is, once you start to get really familiar with it you stop seeing the acronyms and jargon, because by then, they're your 'normal'.