Designated Safeguarding Lead, Social Worker and PALMS

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How do you get Designated Safeguarding Lead, Social Worker and PALMS to help you as a team rather than policing you. I have a vulnerable teen wanting to explore the world but don't want to be accused of neglect or stop them from going out. I think it is systemic failure. Somebody please help it's so hard.

OP, as several posters have posted. It is hard to help without further information. No-one here tell you whether you will be accused of negligence or not. Do look into real life support.

You get support to work towards independence via provision in the EHCP - both educational provision and social care provision.

There are many in society who need support but aren’t locked up, that isn’t a negative if they need that support. And just because someone needs support now doesn’t mean it will always be like that. Living an independent life is not dependent on driving.

The only help I have is Sendiass, support groups and you-tube videos.

I don't think I will be accused of negligence and that maybe I am just paranoid. The team are definitely covering their aXXes but saying he should not be loose in the community.

From your last post I have worked out that the EHCP does not reflect his need for independence and how the team go about securing/method that for him. I doesn't say how they are going to "grow him up".

I am guessing the SEN officer needs all the paperwork before it can be done.

The SALT has issued two pages in the last year, supposed to help him with appropriate communication in the community.

The CIN minutes have been submitted.

Should a police report be submitted?

What else should be submitted?

There is nothing from the school.

It doesn't help that the SEN officer does not attend CIN meetings.

If we don't secure our school we want I will be appealing B, F and I.

Have you spoken to IPSEA or SOSSEN? Have you read their websites and the SENCOP so you understand the process better? Have you thought about instructing someone to act on your behalf?

The provision in the EHCP is taken from the assessment reports. So if there isn't anything working towards independence/daily living skills etc. in the reports there won't be anything in the EHCP. This advice normally comes from OT, PfA, SALT.

Has DS ever done independent travel training?

You wouldn't necessarily expect the SENCO officer to attend CiN meetings.

If there has been contact with the police when DS is in the community I can see why some could have concerns about DS independently accessing the community.

Have you read their websites IPSEA or SOSSEN? and the SENCOP Yes and yes still working through it.

Has DS ever done independent travel training? No, should they do it when he needs it?

I think as time is running out I will have to fill out the Tribunal appeal forms (for when the refusal and right to appeal arrive) and work backwards from there.

Is it this form I need to fill in when they give me right to appeal : Form SEND35: Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal appeal ?

You should be able to find information about your LA’s independent travelling training offer online. It is most common around transition to post 16, but is also offered to other age groups depending on your LA.

Yes, that’s the form.

travelling training offer - yes found it thank-you, there is an old Youtube video explaining it too.

Youtube is my new resource to help me. There is a video telling how to fill in the Form SEND35.

As well a FB support groups with zoom on different subjects. As my luck would have it I missed AR EHCP but they say are going to do it again as oversubscribed.

I am going to appeal BFI because:
he needs a specialist school because the gap is widening between him and his peers in a special school.

I am not happy with the information we have been given and strongly disagree that "impartial information advice and guidance" was given and that it was only biased towards the "LA 2-year core offer".

DS needs to go to a school next 16 to 18 as a 6th Form placement and then college. The LA has faulted in their duties by not providing a sixth form school place for DS and only option available to him is your "two-year core college offer" which we do not want for DS as his main educational need is SALT and OT as always. The system has not given us any other options or even discussing it. He needs to be in education as long as possible to allow for SALT and OT under EHCP conditions and not fast-tracked through the education system to the social care system where they have proved they cannot provide support. Letter dated 19/7/21 I do believe that Treehouse School, Muswell Hill, London is the best fit school for DS but I am yet to find out due to time delays.

The nearest college week is only 20 hrs long which is not long enough to deliver SALT as it is integral to the college day.

I will be disputing the EHCP for B and F due to a SALT and OT report we commissioned. A draft EHCP has been issued with my independent reports shared but the is no evidence that they have been used for Needs in section B and Provision in section F. They are not reflected in the EHCP and is therefore no good enough.

This is where I am up to so far.

Before completing the appeal form before you even have the finalised EHCP you need to understand the law and processes better.

As I posted previously you are mistaken in your belief that DS need to be in a school for Y12 and Y13 because he will only get 2 years at college. That isn’t true, and you will not win an appeal on this basis.

The placement being a school or college is irrelevant to DS needing ”to be in education as long as possible to allow for SALT and OT under EHCP conditions and not fast-tracked through the education system to the social care system where they have proved they cannot provide support.” The EHCP can last until 25 regardless of what placement the young person attends 16-18. SALT and OT can both be provided to pupils with a college placement.

The nearest college week is only 20 hrs long.

The normal week at the college being lesson than 5 days is irrelevant. SEP is based on what is required not what others normally receive. If the young person needs 5 day provision the LA must provide it. As long as the SALT is in F it must be provided. It may be SALT is delivered in addition to the college course.

The system has not given us any other options or even discussing it.

You got, or will get, the chance to name your preference when you receive(d) the draft.

What is SEP?

Does this mean we have no reason to appeal yet?

SEP is Special Educational Provision.

You can’t appeal yet anyway, but before you do you need to understand the law, processes and where to target your appeal otherwise you will not be successful.

The LA have said "No" to another assessment because we have all services involved.

The College they are suggesting, is three days a week and because he needs structured time they have suggested Social Care for two days a week as he is very independent and needs to be made safe in the community. I thought Social Care for two days a week was for after aged 18?

You can appeal the refusal to assess, or you can just let the LA finalise with a placement and then appeal. The latter is going to need independent assessments.

If the young person needs a 5 day educational package it must be provided.

2 days social care provision can be at any age, it depends on an individual young persons needs.

Compulsory education finishes at 16, there is nothing which requires a person to remain in education beyond this point - education, training or employment. Education under an EHCP can continue to 25 (depending on need), but doesn't cover beyond level 3 (A levels), so can't be used for degree courses for example.

If at 18, your child still hasn't achieved level 2, some education provision should continue, but there is no specification on it being full time education (so could be a couple of hours a week), with other provision built around it, work placements, volunteering, life skills development (cooking, budgeting, maintenance, animal care).

The education part is by the age of 25 to have achieved the highest level they can in maths and english ( asdan, functional skills, gcse).

OT and S&LT is health related and doesn't need to be in school/college setting.

Anything that ‘educates or trains’ is educational provision. In the vast majority of cases OT and SALT is not health related, but an educational need and should be in F. Case law London Borough of Bromley and Special Educational Needs Tribunal and Others, QBD and CA(1999) ELR 260) and DC & DC v Hertfordshire County Council (SEN)[2016] UKUT 0379 (AAC).

(so could be a couple of hours a week), with other provision built around it, work placements, volunteering, life skills development (cooking, budgeting, maintenance, animal care).

All this is considered educational provision and would be part of a full time education. If the young person appealed an EHCP with just a couple of hours of provision a week they would almost certainly win. The SENCOP is clear, if a young person needs 5 day provision it must be provided.

The education part is by the age of 25 to have achieved the highest level they can in maths and english ( asdan, functional skills, gcse).

This also isn’t correct. The focus on provision should not be about whether further qualifications can be studied for, and not studying for further qualifications does not mean a young person doesn’t need or isn’t entitled to educational provision to be made via the EHCP. Case law Buckinghamshire CC v SJ [2016] UKUT 254 (AAC), [2016] ELR 350. Education is also about far more than Maths and English.

Sorry it wasn't clear how I wrote it, I was trying to explain that the education part doesn't need to be a traditional school/college full time that the op had been seeming to be expecting. Also as talking about catching up with peers, which suggested a more traditional education outcomes. So my comment about maths and english was more around those that do retake maths and english multiple times and should have been qualified by "if their education outcomes are for level 2 maths and english".

The package, which does not need to include study towards formal qualifications, can include activities such as:

volunteering or community participation
work experience
independent travel training
skills for living in semi-supported or independent accommodation
training to develop and maintain friendships
access to local facilities
physiotherapy

Takeachance sorry, it seems we are on the same page. I misunderstood your post.

I am now able to answer your questions:

If all is amicable and you are collaborating why do you need help to work as a team?

None of them have children, they are all young inexperienced and not qualified. I was hoping they could draw from their caseload the knowledge to help us.

You don’t need to be scared of the DSL and social worker.

DSL - They have a legal responsibility for dealing with safeguarding issues, providing advice and support to staff, liaising with the Local Authority, and working with a range of other agencies. My DS 15 out in the community unsupervised I feel great pressure to keep him safe. What range of agencies do they work with?

social worker- they think they know what is best for DS and their decisions may be swayed by cost forecasts rather than moral things.

Start by explaining why you feel scared and stitched up?
I am scared DS is not going to get an Autism special school because he needs one for him to be understood to avoid self injury, SALT and OT.
I feel stitched up by the school because they say they can handle him when they can't and hide things from us such as self injury,

Why do you feel they are policing you?
because they say it is not a good idea for DS to be alone out in the community which puts a lot of pressure on us parents because he damages property in frustration.

What you think is a systemic failure?
The people in the system don't have the tools, knowledge or resources to help us.

Why you think they are going to accuse you of neglect?
because I let me very independent DS 15 out to avoid damaged property out to avoid frustration.

Is the social worker from the children with disabilities team?
Yes
What you want to achieve and why you think that isn’t happening at the moment?
Autism specialist school
The reports/information is not available to put into the EHCP which will determine what school he goes to.

Can you explain what you mean by ”Don't know what we need and everything is honest and willing.”
Don't know what to ask for help wise. Is it just to stop self injury and distress, environmental factors to help with regulation?

I have been as honest and open as possible to all the professionals so that we can be helped. Autism is a tricky subject to put right.

Willing - always do my homework with and for DS.

Wow they were difficult to answer hope this helps?

Imitatingdory

Is this correct?:

Sixth Forms are in schools and Colleges

DS needs to complete Sixth Form and then Further Education in a Further Education placement.

I really think you need some RL help. If you appeal will you qualify for Legal Aid?

Sixth forms are in schools and FE colleges.

Sixth form is Further Education, so no DS does not need to complete sixth form and then FE college, but with an EHCP he can do so if appropriate. For example, some DC complete sixth form at a school and then go on to a specialist FE college placement.


If all is amicable and you are collaborating why do you need help to work as a team?

None of them have children, they are all young inexperienced and not qualified. I was hoping they could draw from their caseload the knowledge to help us.

Having DC or not is irrelevant. Are you sure none of them are qualified? The school will deliver the provision in the EHCP, so it is the knowledge of the the professionals assessing DS that is most important in this situation.



You don’t need to be scared of the DSL and social worker.



DSL - They have a legal responsibility for dealing with safeguarding issues, providing advice and support to staff, liaising with the Local Authority, and working with a range of other agencies. My DS 15 out in the community unsupervised I feel great pressure to keep him safe. What range of agencies do they work with?



social worker- they think they know what is best for DS and their decisions may be swayed by cost forecasts rather than moral things.

DSLs aren’t there to be feared and going in with the attitude you have I can see why they are equally frustrated. The crux seems to be they don’t agree with you letting DS out unsupervised and from your posts I can see why. The agencies involved will depend on your circumstances (children’s services, YJS, police, health, local charities…). It is the social workers job to make recommendations. It is not in anyone’s interest to suggest DS isn’t developmentally ready to independently access the community. If cost was the deciding factor in their decision they wouldn’t be saying he shouldn’t be in the community alone. If you don’t agree with the provision you can ask SENDIST to look at social care provision when/if you appeal
.

Start by explaining why you feel scared and stitched up? 
I am scared DS is not going to get an Autism special school because he needs one for him to be understood to avoid self injury, SALT and OT. 
I feel stitched up by the school because they say they can handle him when they can't and hide things from us such as self injury,

If you think DS needs a different school appeal. Schools often say the can meet needs when parents disagree. Don’t take it so personally. From what I can gather from your threads the school haven’t hidden self injurious behaviour from you, communication just hasn’t been as explicit or as often as you would like.


Why do you feel they are policing you? because they say it is not a good idea for DS to be alone out in the community which puts a lot of pressure on us parents because he damages property in frustration.

This isn’t policing you. If this is their professional belief it would be negligent not say anything. 



What you think is a systemic failure? 
The people in the system don't have the tools, knowledge or resources to help us.

I think you are relying on the wrong people to give you the answers. The support DS needs comes from having comprehensive assessments, an EHCP, for which you may need to appeal for.



Why you think they are going to accuse you of neglect?
because I let me very independent DS 15 out to avoid damaged property out to avoid frustration.

If you have been advised it is unsuitable for DS to be alone in the community and you ignore the advice you may well find yourself viewed as negligent, especially if anything were to happen. Giving in to DS to avoid his frustration isn’t the right way to go about it. Instead DS needs supporting to access the community, learn independence skills and better ways to manage and communicate his emotions.


What you want to achieve and why you think that isn’t happening at the moment?

Autism specialist school

The reports/information is not available to put into the EHCP which will determine what school he goes to.

So either ask for a reassessment of needs and then appeal if necessary or, when you have the right of appeal, appeal and seek independent reports.



Can you explain what you mean by ”Don't know what we need and everything is honest and willing.”

Don't know what to ask for help wise. Is it just to stop self injury and distress, environmental factors to help with regulation?

You don’t need to ask for anything other than assessments. It is the assessments that determine what provision gets included in the EHCP.

Section E - Outcomes

DS will take part in a turn taking game, with a known peer. To be observed 4 out of 5 times a week e.g. Lego therapy, barrier games, Kim's game, chess etc.

DS will ask a question to seek information from another person in a motivated and structured talking activity with a visual prompt. DS will identify the reason for an emotion in relation himself, another person or the character in a story. DS will request help in a structured and familiar everyday routine or work context with a visual prompt.

DS will use a task board to complete a task independently, to be seen on five occasions.

DS will be able to select from a range of sensory strategies to assist him in achieving the 'just right' level of attention and concentration. DS will use visual supports to enable him to ask for sensory breaks.

Which are Education outcomes? Speech and Language? to be able to talk to his friends and join in their games at playtime. Sensory? is that his behaviour improves because he no longer gets frustrated at not being understood.

I am not sure if it has these elements:
• Steps towards meeting the outcomes
• The arrangements for monitoring progress, including
review and transition review arrangements and the
arrangements for setting and monitoring shorter term

Therefore, are the Outcomes too small/simple? SMART goals are Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic and anchored within a Time Frame.

What do you think?

Needs should lead to required provision. Then provision should enable outcomes to be reached.

None of the suggestions are SMART

There is no Cognition and Learning target. There should be an outcome for each area of need such as Cognition and Learning.

Does he struggle to play turn taking games? Can there be more specific provision in F to teach him how to take turns? If not how is he supposed to reach the target.

How can a child select a sensory strategy and be just right? And what provision is in place to ensure this happens. Is there provision to teach him regulation strategies otherwise how will he reach the target? Does F need to be more specific?

Needs should lead to required provision. Then provision should enable outcomes to be reached.

Response from SEND officer:

In the meantime, because DS’s final EHCP needs to be issued naming a setting in Section I by 31st March, the Local Authority will be naming Local Authority College until we have received full details of the education programme DS would follow at Independent ASD Specialist School and this has been approved by the post-16 High Needs Funding panel.

If the Local Authority agrees that any further changes need to be made to his EHC plan, I will issue a further amended final plan after 31st March.

Once he has moved into his new setting, the next review will be due in October 2022 where further changes can be made to outcomes if necessary.

I think this means I can only appeal after a further amended final plan after 31st March.

What do you think?