Very violent 5yr old boy

[Violentson]

My son has pretty severe asd and is very speech delayed. His violence has now come to the point i can no longer cope and i fear for his future. He pushed my 18m so hard onto the floor his nose started to bleed today. He bites kicks slaps. His new favourite is biting my hair and putting his hands around my neck. We all have brusies cuts etc from him. This stuff happens 10+ times a day. He didn't start school this year as hes not ready but will in August. So hes in a nursery 2x a week. Hes just as bad there. I cant take him out as he hurts anyone he sees or animal's.
Hes a psychopath as all he does is laugh he hes made someone cry or bleed even.
We have alot of professionals trying to help but even they are struggling to find a solution.
Im lost and scared
I don't know what to do anyone

OP there is a lot you can do to help children with violence. Can you say what professional help you have exactly? You have so far only mentioned a SW who would be of no use whatsoever in relation to helping your dc with behaviour.

To those recommending residential care, that might be better for the 18 mth old in the very short term but would be disastrous for the five year old, and for both of them probably long term. The OP can be helped here there will be solutions to change things at home, she just hasn't found the right help yet.

Our posts crossed OP. Can you say exactly what has happened when with which professionals so far? Also what have you read up on, in relation to strategies and reasons for violence so far? What have you tried at home, exactly?

Sorry "and" not "when"

How does his nursery manage a five year old child - presumably much bigger than most if not all his classmates -who constantly attacks other children? How does that work for them?

You need a solicitor OP. The council need to give him a school place and it sound like a specialist school is best. Don't let them torture him for years in mainstream. If you can afford it ABA can do wonderful things too.

Are you anywhere near Stirling OP? Might be worth contacting Blue Sky Autism

Have you tried changing his diet?
Some kids are greatly affected by additives and allergies.
Have you tried speaking to him violent angry behaviour issues are always a secondary problem, is their something else going on in his life?
I have been there with my son in his case it was abuse I had no idea and as a small child he didn't have the language to tell me and he was very scared.

Hi OP, my autistic son is 8 now, I found his behaviour aged 5-6 was the worst - he is very good at communicating but his sensory overwhelm seemed to increase at that age.
Lots of work with sensory integration stuff really brought him on. He still has aggressive meltdowns but so much better now.
Also (controversial but in case you're interested) we found that CBD really helped him. I started taking it myself first for anxiety and after a lot of research introduced it to him, and the difference was remarkable.

OP you can still cope, it’s just fucking hard.
It sounds like you are taking every step to put things in place for him. Is his dad around to help so you can have a break? Do you have friends or family members who are able to cope? I know it’s hard with the covid, to have support but I’m sure most people would be willing to help if you asked. I think in the meantime if there’s two adults in the house, you need to keep DC separate and if one goes out they take the younger one with them. It might be easier to put youngest one in full time nursery rather than trying to get more hours for older one though I do think he should be in school and that they are letting him down by not offering education.

I've been where you are now. My son is non verbal asd. He was diagnosed at 3 and a half, at the time I was pregnant with my dd. I know how hard it is to constantly get hurt and try your hardest to protect everyone else including your son. My son is now 15 he very occasionally hits out now, but it used to be a daily battle. I know how hard this is but the best advice is to ignore his behaviour as best you can as more than likely he is doing it for the reaction (/cause/effect). Do you have a speech therapist? My son's. Behaviour got so much better when he started using pecs cards, he now uses his iPad for communication. Honestly, it will get better. It's so hard but there is help out there push for a speech therapist (if you don't have one) an occupational therapist can help too. Find out if there are an special schools with nursery and try to get your son in there. Get a sympathetic doctor on your side and be prepared to scream and shout until you get the help you and your son need .

I have seen the other end of this scenario OP - I taught a child last year whose older brother was very much as you describe. By the time I taught him age 7, the poor boy was terrified of his own shadow and very, very damaged emotionally. The older boy, who I also taught (in mainstream, mum refused place in specialist provision) was also suffering because of a chaotic and enabling home life. I really liked him, but could absolutely see how he would be terrifying to live with.

At the moment, the priority needs to be very much on protecting the 18mo, who is essentially helpless. Please don’t feel guilty for using respite/residential care if you need to, just so long as you’re all getting some help.

I would suggest talking to Social Services about how you feel, the fact you cannot cope, the danger to your younger DC and how his needs could best be met - pushing for the solution you want, which could be residential care.

Why did you hold him back from school? Presumably he will go to a SS where they will be able to support you in dealing with his behaviour.

I am struggling to understand why you would think he ‘wasn’t ready’ for school when he clearly can’t cope at home?

He is entitled to full time education at his age. Push for full time school; it's the local authority's job to ensure it's 'suitable'.

That sounds so hard OP. My youngest has ASD and was horrendously difficult for years and years.
Its important to remember that he will change and learn skills and this will get easier. He will not always be like this. He clearly needs more help than he is getting. Does he attend a specialist SEN nursery? He should be getting a lot more hours than he currently does, he is 5 and he should be in a specialist school. He doesnt have the skills for mainstream as you know.
I am in England so don't know how it works in Scotland but are there charities/sendiass or equivalents who can help you to fight?
He should be in a specialist sen school and getting lots of speech therapy help. Does he have the equivalent of an EHCP?

@Violentson I really feel for u in this situation both my sisters have been in similar. Their kids both had adhd and was also a? On asd. It took them a while but eventually the authorities got there act together. Im glad he will be going to a special school. I would report every incident to social services so there is a log of every event this will help you get the support you need quicker. Ive read about the medication I suggest could this be started it worked for my sisters kids but they had to stick to a very strict routine aswell as the slightest thing set them off also very careful on diet no e numbers sugar etc which I am sure you already do. For some hope as the kids have matured they are now much better behaved and rarely lash out. Reward charts can also be useful. One now has like a support type worker who comes and takes her child out for a few hours a week to give the rest of the family a break. Could this be something you could ask for? Another option other than long term placement is there any sort of respite so he stays somewhere two nights a week or something. I'm sorry to hear you have been let down by services as annoying as it is and frustrating you need to keep reiterating you need help to them as this is sounding like it's taking a strain on your whole family. X

Residential care for disabled 5/6 year olds doesn’t exist - it would be foster care and I would imagine there are many other steps SS will want to implement before removing a disabled child from his family.

First of all hugs, this isn’t your fault or his, I get your feeling lost and alone, your living through something horrendous that most people can’t begin to get their head round. It’s complex and it’s heartbreaking.

A few people have already mentioned Yvonne Newbold and her Facebook page The Send VCB project, honestly this is the person and the place - thousands of parents in the same situation, most of the comments here are been kind, but sadly judgement is all too common, a lot of posters are trying to be helpful but haven’t got the experience of how these things work, what the reality is like. The comments about placing your son in care, 1) as if this is so easy 2) much more this is your son, it’s hard but even if it was possible and so easy not many can just walk away from their child just like that!
It’s a long long road, be kind to yourself and get the support you can, nothing is more powerful than getting that from those that are going through the same and those that have worked through it.
I could have written a similar post, 4 years ago, the fear of the real possibility of one of your children killing the other is horrendous and being hurt by your own child is awful. It’s taken a lot of work, a lot of tears, sadly the “professionals” were mostly useless and often made things worse, but Yvonne Newbold and various books, eventually the right send school have got us to a place where it’s a million times better - it probably still looks a million miles away from “normal” to those lucky enough to have no idea, but we’re all safe, and happy, but it’s been a long , lonely, hard road. This isn’t the place for me to go any deeper, but I wanted to acknowledge what your living through and let you know it can get better, find your tribe these are the people that’ll get you through.

There are all sorts of things that should be happening for OP - but they are not. I think that OP has posted on this board because she sees a situation of real risk. The cogs are slowly turning in the machinery of all the relevant organisations, but nothing is happening for the family.

I am think creating a safe area for the little one is paramount. Also keeping a written record of dates and times of significant attacks and even photos of nose bleeds, etc. I don't have any very useful advice, but I think that focusing questions asked to social worker - such as, ' How do I keep the youngest child safe when I need to sleep?'. What kind of attacks do you consider acceptable - and which not?'. I think OP should say that she fears for the safety of the youngest and that she's giving formal warning ( put it in written email) that she doesn't feel sure that she can keep, especially youngest, but both children safe. And, yes, I agree with poster who said to call the police if OP can't cope with an incident. If she gets something thrown at her eye, she might not be able to stagger off to manage a subsequent attack on the youngest. The police are safeguarding partners of the Social Service Department and will report their concerns. Also, they are likely to call at the house when social workers might not be able to because of the rules they are following during lockdown.

It's so hard during Covid, you can't always get a face to face meeting with a trained medical person at the GP surgery. I think OP should be staying all her concerns to GP and sat she wants regular phone calls to discuss what is physically safe.

@NotaChocoholic

On this basis, can your son be moved into residential care?

I think a lot of posters here who have zero experience with parenting a child with complex needs and the help that is available.

there will be no residential care for a 5 year old. There will be nothing unless the OP will Battle for years. I am a lone parent of a severely autistic teen (and have a younger child). I never had a single minute of respite despite asking, begging for it. I lost my job, my home, my marriage. Nobody cares. It just doesn't work like that 'oh, the child is challenging, go and get some help'.

Unless shit hits fan, noone will help. The system is set up this way and children and parents pay a heavy price but that is just the way it is.

^ This!

Every person out there who doesn't have a child with complex SEN and feels they can give 'advice' - please don't! You have absolutely no idea of the constant fight SEN parents have to put up to get the barest amount of support.

You need to contact family services or your local mash team.

Your local authority have a duty of care towards your dc, do not let them fob you off. They will do. They can offer restbite and help. Sounds like he needs an appointment with his gp and a referral to a paediatric gp.

I have been through similar and my dd is in residential care

Why did you hold him back from school? Presumably he will go to a SS where they will be able to support you in dealing with his behaviour. I am struggling to understand why you would think he ‘wasn’t ready’ for school when he clearly can’t cope at home?

OP didn't make the decision, the agencies involved did. And he can't just go to a special school, its very difficult to get a place even with complex needs and demand for spaces far outstrips supply.

OP, I would ask for the thread to be moved to the SN boards as on AIBU you will get a lot of comments from people who do not fully understand how the system works or what its like to live with/advocate for a child with complex and difficult needs. An example of this would be the several comments recommending residential care - this would be nigh on impossible to find for a five year old. Another example would be the people suggesting you modify his diet by removing certain foods - it is not uncommon for autistic people to have limited diets anyway or to be vitamin deficient due to this, his diet shouldn't be modified without guidance from a qualified dietician first.

"lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

If it's this extreme can you place him
In care yourself? I think it's a section 20. He's likely to get professional help quicker that way"

This isn't how section 20 consent works. Section 20 of the Children Act is used when local authorities are already seeking to remove children from their home due to significant risks. It allows the parents to work 'with' the plan rather than a court order being sought. Section 20 does not allow someone to simply hand their child over and absolve themselves of parental responsibility. Anyone who contacted social services trying to do this would be told no.

OP you have had some great advice from people who have been in similar situations. I agree with others, increased nursery (or better, school) is what I'd be pushing for first. Hope things improve for you.

He is not oaychopath ge us chikd with ASD. Hs needs dpe ialust school now . AbA or TEACCH . Dobt wait til he is "ready". He is not suddenly going to be ready without input he needs speciaust input now.
soeak to ss chikdren wirh disabilities
Which school locally is specislist asd or has a asd unit?

@victoriaspongecake

The child is 5 years old and has a medical condition. He is not a psychopath. He has autism and is struggling to communicate his needs. Get in touch ASAP with your child’s social worker and other professionals involved and ask for more help learning how to deal with him and to keep your other child safe. Also look online to see if Homestart operate in your area.

This is sensible advice.
Sending a hug, this is such a difficult situation but police/residential care is not the answer.