Very violent 5yr old boy

[Violentson]

My son has pretty severe asd and is very speech delayed. His violence has now come to the point i can no longer cope and i fear for his future. He pushed my 18m so hard onto the floor his nose started to bleed today. He bites kicks slaps. His new favourite is biting my hair and putting his hands around my neck. We all have brusies cuts etc from him. This stuff happens 10+ times a day. He didn't start school this year as hes not ready but will in August. So hes in a nursery 2x a week. Hes just as bad there. I cant take him out as he hurts anyone he sees or animal's.
Hes a psychopath as all he does is laugh he hes made someone cry or bleed even.
We have alot of professionals trying to help but even they are struggling to find a solution.
Im lost and scared
I don't know what to do anyone

I would ask for this to be moved to the SEND board.

He is 5 and autistic. Autism is complex, do you have any kind of routine for him at home? Have you looked into ways of calming him. He sounds overloaded. My autistic nephew has lots of lights to look at and they calm him down (bubble lamps). Sensory things could help.

His speech will also be adding to his rage. Please join the parenting groups for Autism and SEND. There are strategies to help.

+1 for OT referral. Preferably a Sensory Integration Assessment.

My youngest was very violent, but has calmed a lot now he's in nursery 3 days a week. They have been amazing and he has a whole team around him (also Scotland). It's been coordinated through the health visitor.

The improvement has been concurrent with an increase in communication skills. He talks more and reads (just on his own, we didn't try to teach him) so less frustrated, more thinking.

6 months ago I was honestly losing hope. He would have terrible violent meltdowns. Now it's just occasional lashing out, which we can mostly head off.

I’m sorry that you are stuck in this situation OP. Where are you based as I am trying to work out why your DC only has access to nursery twice a week?

If he has not yet started school can you press your support services for a full time SEN nursery place? (In England 30hours funding applies until children are 5 even if they have applied for a CSA start)

They would then be able to make the assessments for an EHCP and finding the right setting for him when he does start ( it doesn’t sound like a mainstream school is likely to be able to meet his needs). Full time nursery would also give you and your family a break.

When you speak to them make sure you stress the safe guarding aspect of your younger child (I wouldn’t worry that they are going to swoop in and take a 5 year old off to a residential setting - there are many steps to be tried first even if this does become an option further down the line).

In the meantime can you make a safe space for your youngest/ or one that they can both use separately?

Hang in there OP.

I would begin by looking at his diet.
www.google.com/amp/s/blog.brainbalancecenters.com/2015/04/common-food-triggers-of-behavioral-issues%3fhs_amp=true
Also, his routine. Children need secure routines, with plenty of exercise.
Can you discover any triggers to his violence?

Search for Yvonne Newbold on Facebook. She gives a lot of advice and runs courses on dealing with SEND VCB (violent & challlenging behaviour).

As a short term way of trying to keep DC2 safe, could you use a playpen for at least part of the day? I know a lot of people don't like them but he might be safer with some sort of barrier between him and DC1.

I would also ask MNHQ to move this thread over to the SN Section. You may get some MNers with experience giving you advice on what worked for them

@alexdgr8

you need to keep the younger child safe. the 5 year old needs to be somewhere else. he is out of control.

Because of course resident care for a five year old is so easy to find. Sorry op people often have no idea how complicated this issue is. I would definitely try the gluten free suggestion , it can't hurt.

I am so sorry this is happening. We had a very aggressive child with ASD an ADHD but he did often show remorse and his language skills were not as delayed as your DSs seem to be. The only think I will say is that complete consistency in one approach for longer than you can imagine is needed to change behaviour. DH and I were discussing DS yesterday and his violence has considerably reduced but he was very aggressive from age 4 to 11 at school
( much less at home and never with us after 5 years old)
Be had a lot of professional interventions at school but in the end he found the school environment much harder and more frustrating to deal with than his home so it took longer to sort out. School could also only make certain accomodations

Have you asked the professionals what you need to do to keep your family safe?. What behaviour interventions do they suggest you use? Is there anything your DS cares about that you can take away, every time he hurts someone? You need to only take it away for physically hurting though. All other sorts of difficult behaviour need to be ignored for a while until the hurting others is under control.

If people want to use ABA to train their autistic child like Victoria Stillwell training a dog then that’s up to them I guess. You can dress my views up as ignorance I don’t care. I much prefer the bonds and relationships I’ve built with children with ASD using interventions that nurture their well being and focus on reducing their anxiety and managing their sensory needs.
Apologies OP I won’t derail your thread any further so people wanting to argue with me on the merits of ABA need not bother as I won’t be reading or responding to them.

PALMS,ADDVance ,(I'm in herts not sure if these are nationwide),autistic society can all help.You need professional help.EHCPs take a long time as does getting a place in a special needs school.In the meantime there are many agencies ,parenting groups that can help you.There will also be a family support worker for your area and a school nurse.I suggest referring yourself yourself to them ASAP.There is respite you could get access to.

@Aquamarine1029

I'm so sorry for what you're dealing with, but your post made me remember an artcle I read several months ago, (could be even a year ago or more, this year has made things bleed together).

The article was about explosive rage in children caused by gluten, related to coeliac disease.

Coeliac disease doesn’t cause children to endanger other children. CD is an autoimmune response to consuming gluten, which causes malnutrition, bloating, stomach ache, nausea and weakness.

His social worker has offered him 10 hrs a wk respite but still waiting for that to be set up.

My, admittedly very limited, experience with SWs is that she who shouts loudest goes to the top of the queue. Ring or text your SW at least daily asking for an update on this. That's what we did recently when an older member of our family needed help.

I suspect the behaviour might be anxiety driven if it’s asd.

Also have mixed feelings on aba.

Do you notice any causes or routines when he’s upset?

Is his environment low or high stimuli?

If people want to use ABA to train their autistic child like Victoria Stillwell training a dog then that’s up to them I guess.

was waiting for the dog training comment. And yup, you confirmed your complete ignorance because aba is nothing like that.

ABA actually improves bonds and relationships and it helped us to irons out some severe self harming behaviours. Nothing a good bond alone would have solved.

I think sociql services and the LEA need to take this more seriously. He needs an EHCP set up and he needs a SEN school, otherwise he is being set up to fail. He possibly needs some medication too to calm his emotional outbursts in order for him to be able to be around others safely.
You are being failed here as a family, and if they are trying to use covid as a reason to not help you, thats not good enough. A SEN school with a holistic approach and very small classes. You need to appeal the decision to send him to mainstream. They are fobbing you off. Its what they do.

Your younger child is already at risk. On this basis, can your son be moved into residential care?

Can people please stop asking about residential care. You dont know what youre talking about. That just wouldnt happen for a 5 year old who the LEA are currently fobbing off for even a bloody SEN school. What an enormous leap

Keep contacting your social worker. Keep putting the issue in their court repeatedly.

Is there a SN preschool near to you too OP?

We are very lucky in that we have a charity run one. Two of my DF's DC went there and really benefitted from a caring environment that understood their needs.

The main priority is the social worker coordinating support and different agencies.

If you’re not getting the help you need after trying hard, contact social workers manager or ask the SW department for the complaints procedure and follow it.

Does your little one have an ehcp and a social worker(children with disabilities rather than safeguarding)? Is he under camhs at all?

On this basis, can your son be moved into residential care?

I think a lot of posters here who have zero experience with parenting a child with complex needs and the help that is available.

there will be no residential care for a 5 year old. There will be nothing unless the OP will Battle for years. I am a lone parent of a severely autistic teen (and have a younger child). I never had a single minute of respite despite asking, begging for it. I lost my job, my home, my marriage. Nobody cares. It just doesn't work like that 'oh, the child is challenging, go and get some help'.

Unless shit hits fan, noone will help. The system is set up this way and children and parents pay a heavy price but that is just the way it is.

If it's this extreme can you place him
In care yourself? I think it's a section 20. He's likely to get professional help quicker that way.

Also OP www.challengingbehaviour.org.uk/ will be able to offer you support to cope with this.

If you are on FB, please look up a group called SEND VCB. Sadly, your situation is not that uncommon, but you will find a lot more support and sensible advice than you will here.
Unless you have been there with a SEN child, it is nigh impossible to understand.

To clear some things up.
We are in Scotland. He was due to start school in August this year but since he wasnt given a place in special school it was decided at his child planning meeting that him staying at nursery was the best of two crap options. Ive kicked up a fuss but sadly it doesn't help. He has been let down by professionals. Salt,ot camhs etc are already involved. There's no mediation apart from melatonin.
I love him with all my heart and he can be such a sweet boy.
I didn't mean that i thought he was a psychopath just sometimes he can be such a handful.