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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

How do you know when your child has a problem, rather than just being a good old-fashioned duffer?

51 replies

Enid · 28/11/2006 09:39

Poor dd1 (7 in Dec). She isn't struggling at school in that she loves going, she feels happy there, but she has started getting very upset at home about the fact that she 'can't remember things'. Her spelling is really atrocious - reading her literacy book today she had written a story full of good ideas but almost unreadable due to lack of punctuation and poor spelling - garden was "gand" and later "gadn", walk was "woc". She finds it almost impossible to complete work in the time allowed, in fact any time pressures at all, with anything, make her panic. Her reading has improved hugely but she is still at the 'bottom' of the class, she sits with three other children one of whom is statemented, so it is made very clear how the 'class rankings' work (there are four tables - uber clever, clever, average, below average, I would say). She is HUGELY conscientious but tells me that she finds listening and remembering very very hard. She often doesn't understand given work, especially if if involves sequencing - she has no idea what day it is, she cannot tell the time and has no concept of how long a week/month/year is. She finds putting her clothes and bags on her pegs very hard, hates getting dressed and cannot do the zip of her coat up - ok it is stiff but still...

all this is being thrown into sharp relief by dd2 (just 4) who (thanks to cod!) is now reading simple Ladybird books and recognises all the reception words, can write every letter in the alphabet and if I spell out words aloud can write anything- she tells dd1 what the day is, whether horse-riding is 'today' or 'tomorrow'. Thank the lord that dd1 is good at sport and dd2 is not otherwise I think poor dd1 would be utterly defeated.

I have spoken to dd1's teacher - she thinks dd1 needs a lot of reassurance which she doesn't always have time to give and that it is all a matter of confidence. What do you think?

OP posts:
throckenholt · 28/11/2006 09:49

In my experience second children pick things up much quicker than first ones - they have someone to copy and an incentive to be able to match their sibling.

Have you considered any dietry changes that may help your Dd's memory ?

Reading - is probably a matter of practice and confidence - can you work on that at home - may with both children together reading a book -hopefully if you pitch it right - Dd1 will find it easy, and it will boost her confidence.

And maybe you could work at teaching her the rules of spelling, or concentrate on say 3 words a day - again to help boost her confidence - so that she knows there are some things she knows and can relax about.

Enid · 28/11/2006 09:53

dietary? not really. she does take a multivitamin. We do reading every night at home and she has come on in leaps and bounds but still reads very monotonously and peers hard at each word so she reads very slowly.

Yes, we could practise spelling that is a good idea. She is sooooooo knackered after school though.

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batters · 28/11/2006 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zippitippitoes · 28/11/2006 09:57

I think these things would show up in a I think Weschler test, on a spectrum of learning difficult dyslexia and maybe dyspraxia

WideWebWitch · 28/11/2006 09:59

lol at the use of the word 'duffer' enid! Ah poor dd1 though, she sounds so lovely. It sounds as if it might be a bit more than confidence, do you think so? Have you thought about dyslexia? I have no experience or knowledge of it but might it explain the sequencing stuff? I hope someone with more knowledge turns up soon. But equally it might be nothing. God, I'm no help am I? wrt the dexterity stuff though, ds is 9 and was unable to open a BANANA this morning, he's spectacularly bad at anything demanding dexterity, whereas dd, who's not even 3 yet, can do buttons and all sorts of other stuff he struggles with.

Kittypickle · 28/11/2006 10:05

I think as throckenhalt says second children do pick things up much faster. I have a very sharp contrast between DS(just 3) and DD (nearly 8). DS has started recognising letters and being able to say the sounds , because of DD I think. Whereas DD couldn't read a word until after the Christmas in Year 1, when it suddenly all clicked into place and was fine.

The difference is though that DD does have a diagnosis of dyspraxia, so different situation to your DD. However some of the things your DD is saying reminds me very strongly of my DD. I can't read the stories she writes and inwardly cringe when she comes over to show me one as I know she will say "read it out Mummy" and I won't be able to. The dressing things rings bells as does the sequencing.

I am probably completely way off the mark here and I am sorry if I upset you by mentioning it, but I think it might be a good idea to have a very quick read about dyslexia. I don't know much about it but do know that there's quite an overlap between dyslexia and dyspraxia eg the visual sequential memory aspect is present in both I think (my DD came out on the 1st percentile recently in a test for this )

Also, I have a feeling that it is you who is quite anti fish oils, but I have found that when we manage to get them down DD for any length of time that it does seem to make a difference to her concentration.

Would it be an idea to ask her teacher whether the SENCO could observe DD ? It may well be that she will catch onto all this in her own sweet time and I do think they get very pushed these days. But having said that, if there is something underlying going on, early intervention can make a huge difference to their self confidence.

Rummum · 28/11/2006 10:15

Hello Enid,
Have you thought about dyslexia at all, there are a lot of threads on here at the moment..
My daughter is dyspraxic, which has a lot of simular problems, and has the same difficulties as your daughter, and she's 10 now. she still has trouble spelling, sequencing, remembering things.. (she went to find her school shoes on this morning and came back with her trainers!) she is also in a big show tonight and asked this morning..."what are we doing after school".. bless her.. we've talked about nothing else for the last week...
In an ideal world the teachers would be on the ball and supporting our children and picking up on their difficulties... unfortunately they are not, I think they don't have enough training... DD dyspraxia only got picked up when I did a course for my pre-school... I asked the school if she could be dyspraxic and they said no as she could use a ruler!!
It may well be that she doesn't tick all the boxes for dyslexia, but she still need support for her difficulties, and stratagies to help her cope, which will give her more confidence in herself..
don't let teachers fob you off... you know your child better than anyone...

Enid · 28/11/2006 10:22

"she is also in a big show tonight and asked this morning..."what are we doing after school".. bless her.. we've talked about nothing else for the last week... " sorry but this made me rofl in recognition! That is TYPICAL of dd1. It is easy to say (as I have been) 'oh she is such a dreamer' but it is obviously upsetting her now and I hate it when she says 'I am not clever' as she is the most kind and sweet hearted child.

Well, yesterday at a book party (Mini IQ products can highly recommend them) I met a woman who specialises in dyslexia - set up and ran the special educational needs dept at the local private school for many years. We got talking about dd1 and she said she would love to see her - she gives private lessons and said that they would help dd1 with her confidence if nothing else. So maybe I will take dd1 along to see her.

OP posts:
Kittypickle · 28/11/2006 10:25

I think that would be a good idea Enid. It's horrible when they realise that they are that bit slower with the class work than most of their friends. That's why I think that it is important to check that there isn't anything underlying going on, as if there is, the sooner it's recognised the faster she will get help. This woman you met sounds like the perfect start.

Rummum · 28/11/2006 10:32

... Dreamy that word sums up daughter...
glad you looking at ways of helping your DD...
knowing what I know now... I wish I'd pushed for help sooner....

fennel · 28/11/2006 10:33

We get this a bit with my dds, dd1 (6) is middle of the class, dreamy, forgetful, relatively poor memory, though she can read reasonably well her writing and spelling are poor. Dd2 (5) is a fluent reader and writer, prodigious memory and very confident.

Someone on mumsnet did suggest at one point that my dd1 might be dyslexic and she does show a few of the symptoms, but I don't think she can be really as she is reading reasonably well.

but the thing which concerns me most is that dd1 doesn't feel bad when dd2 (inevitably I think) overtakes her academically. whatever you do I think that's one of the most important things as a parent, to make sure the child doesn't value themselves just by academic success (I come from a family where that was the main thing that mattered so I'm a bit sensitive to it). my dd1 is a fantastic child - imaginative, sensitive, dreamy, caring, creative - and I'm really trying to make sure she knows that, rather than just seeing what she's not fantastic at.

throckenholt · 28/11/2006 10:33

not sure what I meant by dietry changes - just thought maybe a google on improving memory may help throw up something.

eg scroll down here - suggests some food types that help (eg vitamin C).

foxinsocks · 28/11/2006 10:36

hi enif

Has your school got a scheme for those who are struggling with literacy? It may be worth asking. I've forgotten what the name of the scheme is but we have a system that picks up the bottom few children in each class and they get a little extra help once or twice a week.

One of dd's friends does it and her parents are delighted with the results. It's just to give the little ones a bit more confidence and some extra time with a teacher to help them on their way.

Clary · 28/11/2006 10:37

Yes Enid like others on this thread I was wondering about duslexia/dyspraxia.

Yr DD sounds lovely, makes me think a bit of my DS1 who, while not IMHO dyslexic or dyspraxic (for eg he is a very good speller and understands sequences, can tell time etc (he?s 7.5), struggles and always has with fine motor and is a most unwilling reader (despair emoticon). He too has come home from school and told me that he?s not very clever

Compares badly with DD who at 5 has the most beautiful colouring and can read better than him without any doubt now. Sigh.

However on the bright side DS1 took part in and completed an inter-schools cross country run on Sunday - he really struggled (he?s not a very co-ordinated runner) but I was so proud of him for getting round. So keep praising yr DD?s achievements in sport and anything else she does well. Good for her for writing her imaginative stories as well, that?s great.

lemonaid · 28/11/2006 10:49

A lot of those things do sound dyslexia-ish -- particularly all the sequencing stuff and being late learning to tell the time which is a classic feature of dyslexic children (did/does she also have trouble with the order of days of the week and months of the year?).

What's her spoken vocabulary like? Is there a big gap between her spoken and written vocabulary?

lemonaid · 28/11/2006 10:54

P.S. fennel - My sister is quite severely dyslexic (she's recently been retested for college, having been originally diagnosed as dyslexic back at school, and got some impressively high "really, really dyslexic" score) but has always read pretty fluently and certainly at or above her age level (in contrast to her writing/spelling which were always terrible). Her DH, on the other hand, is also severely dyslexic and does struggle with his reading. It can affect different people in different ways.

fennel · 28/11/2006 11:04

That's interesting Lemonaid. I did print out the symptom list for Dyslexia which someone linked from here, and she does fit it, but when I suggested this to her teacher the teacher felt that her reading ability made it unlikely (she reads above average for her age, but only just).

My DP also fits the dyslexia list - last in his class to learn to read, poor memory, awful on dates and time sequences, relatively poor spelling and written skills. But a 1st in Physics and a PhD. Very skewed learning patterns.

not meaning to hijack your thread, sorry Enid. But your dd1 does sound a bit like mine - who will similarly forget what is happening that day (or what's just happened) even if we spend all week talking about it.

fullmoonfiend · 28/11/2006 11:06

fennel - ''dyslexia but I don't think she can be really as she is reading reasonably well. ''

Not saying your dd is, but there are several forms of dyslexia and many dyslexics can read fine, because they have good visual memories. the problems can come later when they have to read words without contextual clues or ones they haven't learned the 'shape' of.
my son has this problem - he has audotroy dysxlexia - he has huge problems recognising the sounds of words, hence his spelling is downright bizarre. . .

Still worth checking out, if only to eliminate it?

Enid, agree your daughter sounds as though she ticks many dyslexic boxes (possibly dyspraxia too?)

fennel · 28/11/2006 11:08

FMF, when I tentatively suggested it to dd1's teacher she smiled and thought it highly unlikely and I felt very for being a typical pushy middle class parent who can't accept their child is just average. But I am keeping it in mind.

Enid · 28/11/2006 11:13

lol at being at pushy middle class parent

as I feel the same

I will see what this lady says when dd1 goes to see her. I said casually to dd1 'oh I met this lovely lady yesterday who helps children who struggle a bit with reading and children who can't remember things very well' - dd1's head whips up from back of car - 'thats me! thats me! I want to go and see her!'

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zippitippitoes · 28/11/2006 11:14

the key to dyslexia and dyspraxia is that there is a disparity rather than a consistency so scores may be average with one or two very low and worthy of further investigation and or monitoring

Enid · 28/11/2006 11:19

I don't really udnerstand it all tbh. dd1 is very good, above average, at drawing very neatly and doing things like hama beads - not following a pattern but she makes complex ordered colour patterns with the beads. But that is IT as far as order goes. She is also a strong and fast swimmer and runner but HOPELESS at ball sports like tennis or anything that involves co-ordination. She has a great visual memory and is above average at being empathetic with others. Arrgh its all so confusing...

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LIZS · 28/11/2006 11:21

I think if it interferes with her ability to learn and make progress then it is a problem. Whether you let on to her your concerns, that is up to you. In the first case the teacher should be looking for more opportunities to boost her confidence, without having to make "time" for it as such. Secondly your idea of letting her see someone externally might work. ds has , we suspect, dyspraxia and still struggles with spelling, to a degree beyond what you describe, in year 4 but he can at least do most zips etc now. He responds well to small group and individual sessions. Hopefully one day soon he'll get hsoi OT assessment (14 months form referrral and counting )If you think you may need to go down that route set the ball in motion sooner rather than later via school or gp.

foxinsocks · 28/11/2006 11:22

I got a diagnosis of mild dyslexia as a child and I am v good with numbers and reading but find spelling a real chore. Am also hopelessly, I mean really hopelessly, disorganised (also have a great visual memory but I'm crap at remembering things spoken to me iyswim).

Twiglett · 28/11/2006 11:23

I think you know the difference between being pushy and concerned

I would suggest that a child who is having problems reading, writing and memory MAY have a dyslexic/dyspraxic problem that you can be given tools to help overcome

I would get an educational assesment