Was this racist?

[BansheeofInisherin]

I am in a book club with several women. Most are American, European or British. I am S Asian and the only person of colour there ( I hate that expression, but can't think of an alternative). That is not usually a problem for me. I don't hang out only with other Asians and have many non-Asian friends. However:

The book we read recently was Yellowface. If you have read the book, you will know it is about a white American author who steals the manuscript of her Chinese friend, because she believes that PoC have an advantage in the publishing world. We got on to discussing this and suddenly, one of the women said " Frankly, my husband is really annoyed at how minorities get all the top positions because of the diversity push". Another woman chimed in "Yes, my husband too can't get the job he wants because of diversity iniatives". There were nods of agreement around the table.

I didn't know what to say. I am a first generation immigrant here, and it was not easy for me to get a job. I only got one because I am pretty highly educated and have a specialist skill. Both my DH and I work with people far less educated ( They have A levels while both of us have masters).

Anyway, I went home feeling somewhat attacked. Was this racist?

Very predictable.

Yes because all South Asian people are the same and think exactly the same way. Oh wait, no, that’s an idiotic thing to think.

Comments like this are exactly why such boards are needed. It’s not helpful to have (presumably) white people coming here and telling Asian MNers what is and isn’t racist. Your experiences in the world are very different to ours

This is a board allowing SAsian folk to share their experiences and perspectives.

It’s a little corner of MN where the posters shouldn’t have to explain their experiences to other people.

OP it was racist, isn’t true, and I’m sorry you were in that position.

Are there occasional PoC who have risen higher than they should due to diversity policies- probably, just like there are white men promoted above their ability level, and probably far more held back by implicit bias as you say.

Let's flip this on its head for a moment. How would these woman have felt if you had suggested the only reason their husbands had their jobs was because of their white privilege?
Not skill, not experience, not education, knowledge or expertise, but ethnicity. See how quickly minds change then

Byeeeee! 👋

I’ve reported the thread for the attacks on the OP who has every right to ask for input from people who share her experience and background.

I read this on an Andrew Tate thread and it was being applied to gender but I think the principle works here too (although I’m not suggesting we’re anywhere near a stage of equality yet- so much work needs to be done to change a lot of people’s underlying attitudes)

”When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression”

The men in this situation’s egos won’t allow them to think that they didn’t get the job because they’re not the best candidate, so it must therefore be someone else’s fault.

Unfortunately this has appeared in active, so attracting attention.

@Flyingcarpetintraining completely agree, I've met so many men who are barely able to contain their rage that the world doesn't always work in their favour anymore.

I hope everyone who comments negatively on this is not also advocating for safe spaces for women.
It is not respectful to deny and question others experiences.

Yes it was racist, they clearly can't believe that a PoC might be better qualified for the job than their husbands!

Some places have in the past talked about diversity quotas (not just for PoC, could also be for women in management positions for example) - I don't know how or if they have ever been implemented (it's certainly not universal!) but it's damaging because it gives racists a reason to argue that someone only gets a job because of their ethnicity and not because they are qualified - when actually being qualified is the starting point.

Nope, not a wind up. You can ask MN to check as I am a long time poster, though I do have two usernames. Just going to ignore the gaslighting.

Those who do think this comment was racist/inappropriate/just plain wrong, how should I have framed my response? I regret not saying anything, but at the time I didn't want to spoil the happy pre-Xmas atmosphere. Would definitely have said something in the workplace. But I prefer not to be aggressive, just precise.

Hi all,
We'd like to draw everyone's attention to the message at the top of this board, please.

"This board exists primarily for the use of South Asian Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful."

We have removed several posts and have removed this thread from active convos, and would like to see this interesting thread continue if at all possible.

There ARE diversity quotas. However, its supposed go mean that people who wouldn't get a look in due to their colour/ heritage, would now be in with a fair chance at getting the job, IF they are good enough.

Do most of these ladies not work?

And OP- could you also have your own prejudices eg thinking you are more qualified and in some way better than the people you work with and the only thing holding you back is your colour? This is similar to what my parents thought when they immigrated in the 70's

@HopeMumsnet can you explain why it's ok for OP to insist that only South Asians are allowed to comment on this thread and why you have deleted any comments pointing out that this is discrimination?

Mumsnet makes it clear that any race can post in this thread as long as they are respectful. Pointing out discrimination when it happens is always appropriate, please justify why you think this should only go one way?

"I only want S Asians to comment on this, please. This is a board for us."

Those sorts of comments would have me distancing myself from people who made them. The fact that they would be so forthright with them in front of you, just shows the level of resentment that they really feel. They have revealed their prejudice. It is up to you if you feel able to overlook that fact, and continue going to the book club. I personally would not. It is depressing.

How can the thread be 'interesting' if only one side is allowed to comment?

Shameful censorship, if you ask me.

Agree with this 100%. I consider myself fortunate that the colour of my skin did not hold me back in the early stages of the career - I worked in multiple diverse departments within the NHS. But as time went on, it was increasingly evident the leadership was never representative of this diversity - the overwhelming majority of staff would be female and more ethnic minorities than white. However, every place I moved to had a white leader (usually male but very occasionally female) which speaks volumes. How does the minority white male in the department always rise above over countless others? Just to note all individuals are professionals and qualifications equal.
There are changes coming through slowly but it wouldn't surprise me if the white males who do not automatically get the post have the same attitude as the women and their DH in the OP

The quote by @Flyingcarpetintraining couldn't be more accurate...
When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Couldn't agree more how can you say only one race is possible to comment on something and accuse everybody else of been racist?

Cannot believe they've deleted my comments, they were not mean just factually accurate in saying that everybody should be able to comment in an open Foreign.

I don't find it very respectful for posters to come on here and say that minorities who get their jobs are not the best persons for that job.

Anyway, any suggestions for an appropriate way to respond to this in the future?