Single mum of 8mth old co-sleeper desperately seeking advice

[lycheemartini]

I would be so grateful for any ideas on how to improve my dd?s sleep and reduce her reliance on breastfeeding to sleep. DD is 8 months, ebf and co-sleeps with me (exP threw us out when she was 8 weeks, after 11 years together). She has always refused a bottle of expressed milk and is cows milk protein intolerant so has never for example tried a bottle of formula at night. The co-sleeping wasn?t planned , but out of necessity as she has always been such a tenacious sleep fighter, who awoke the second she was placed in her moses basket. She slept well like this until 3 ½ months and it?s all been downhill from there.

At the moment she goes to bed about 8.30 (it?s too noisy where I am staying to attempt putting her to bed before this). I breastfeed her, she drops off quite quickly. I lie her on the bed, she wakes. I stroke her and say shush, she starts crying angrily, I lie on my side and feed her back off. She then wakes every 40 mins for a couple of hours and I feed her back off, or she cries angrily. I cannot leave the room as the bed is not safe to leave her on now that she rolls all over the place. I cannot have a single evening off. Through the night after that she wakes every 2 hours, then from 5am she wants to feed every 40mins again (often waking for long periods). She sleeps so lightly, she always wakes if I carefully turn over or go to the loo.

It definately seems to be getting worse. I?ve found out exP is seeing someone else this week and am pretty devastated, and I cannot ever get a break (have family willing to babysit if she?d allow it). In the day she breastfeeds to sleep, and if I put her down, at least 50% of the time she wakes and I have to feed her lying down. This prevents me putting her into a cot, as I can?t lie to feed her.

She?s looking really tired, and I go back to a demanding job in 3 months, I worry how she?ll cope getting off to sleep for someone else in the day. She very occasionally drops off in pram/car.

Does this spell the end for co-sleeping? I do enjoy the closeness and think it has been lovely for her. Should I try PUPD? I hate leaving her to cry, she gets very distressed and angry and I don?t have huge reserves of emotional strength at the moment. Have tried the no cry sleep solution, she won?t be swaddled/take a dummy. I can?t look at this situation rationally any more. She doesn?t have her own room either. Please help!

Sorry it's long and for the bizarre apostrophes!

Is anyone about to chat to me? Feeling really down..

lychee.

Whereabouts are you staying? You say it's too noisy to put her to bed earlier - can you get a white noise machine or something to block out the sound? This is what we do with my DS to block the sounds of traffic outside. Then you can aim for an earlier bedtime.

I'd also put her in a cot - can you have it so it's furthest away from the door? Perhaps get her in there by having the cot flush with the bed then gradually moving it away?

I'll come back in a bit - just putting my DS (9 months) to bed.

I'm about to go off to do bedtime in a minute, but didn't want you to go unanswered, you sound so . It sounds like you have a lot to cope with in your life, and that is so hard to do when you are sleep deprived too.

Both of mine were not 'good' sleepers as babies, and we did end up co-sleeping out of necessity. I'm afraid I don't have any magic solutions, but may be one practical thing would be a mattress on the floor for her? (space permitting) That way you could get her off to sleep but not worry about her falling out of bed.

Hope you get some good advice (and some more sleep soon)

Sorry can't help as my evenings sound very like yours! But I would say that it sounds like there has been a lot of upheaval in her very short life, which you are countering brilliantly by making her very secure with you.

IME from ds1 it does gradually get naturally better, even though it sometimes feels like it will never get there.

This delightful little girl has got you EXACTLY where she wan't you, hasn't she?

My darling no wonder you feel so sad. You need quality sleep, and you need some life back for yourself.

I have never particularly liked the idea in the past, but I do wonder if you might have to go through a spell of controlled crying, because I think she has just got into a really bad habit of using you as a dummy to settle herself every time she slightly stirs.

I can understand that you don't have good emotional reseves at the moment. Do you have a friend/sister/mum who could come and spend a couple of days/nights with you to support you in teaching her to drop this habit?

Mmmm clumsy she's a baby - they are not diberately manipulative.

The frequent waking and early waking sound like she's overtired. So CC could backfire spectacularly as she could be unable to relax properly without a feed.

lychee first of all take up offers of babysitting.- even if it's an afternoon between feeds. Get the babysitter to try DD with a cup of expressed milk instead of a bottle? You need a break.

Second, set an earlier bedtime and try and get some background noise like white noise etc. Also get blackout blinds as well.

Sort out a bedtime routine if you haven't already - eg we do bath, story, lullabies, BF, bed. I'd aim to be feeding by 6.15ish.

Get your DD napping twice a day by any means necessary. You can tackle the how later. Best nap to get sorted is the morning one - aim to put her down no more than two hours after she gets up. Look for tired signs and after a few days you can anticipate and get her out in a puschair or whatever works. Next nap - around 12ish, again look for tired signs.

In terms of getting her to sleep without feeding - it will take time esp if she's overtired. My DS feeds for 45 mins at bedtime if he's wired (like tonight )! Usually I'd put him to bed even earlier - the aim is to finish the feed before he wants to drop off. Then I'd put him in the cot and pat to sleep. i did start off feeding to sleep then putting in the cot, graduating to drowsy then awake. However he's teething so not working!

I'd suggest getting your DD into a cot if poss - you can get her used to it by having her play in there in the day. Don't worry about day naps in the cot just yet as in my experience it's harder!

So that was a ridiculously long post. Basically I'd tackle the bedtime first. Then self settling, then hopefully the night wakings will reduce (you can try settling without feeding or leaving her for a minute if it's a feeble cry). Getting her to nap in the day wil really help with night sleep.

HTH

deliberately manipulative

Also CMP intolerance often goes hand-in-hand with reflux. That's what both my dss had (ds2 still does). It causes frequent waking as lying down makes the reflux worse. Bfing, otoh, mitigates it which is why the pattern of wake-bf-sleep-wake is so common in refluxy babies.

Yes my DS also has silent reflux and CMP intolerance. He's generally a rubbish sleeper but medication made a huge difference and he's better than he was!

Hello Lychee my 9 month old DS sounds very similar to your DD, he is also of the wake every half hour flavour.

Have you got a cot? Can one side come off? As I have got a massive improvement in sleep once I took the dropside off my DS's cot and pushed it up against my bed, using a piece of foam to bridge the small gap. This way we still co-sleep but have our own space. I bf him to sleep in the cot and painstakingly slowly inch myself away. He can be a light sleeper so I often have to wait a good ten minutes before I move. I can also roll over into the cot and feed him when he wakes (and sometimes wake up in the cot myself). Since doing this he will go 2-3 hours, sometimes 4 which is a big improvement.

Have you also tried having some noise to block out other sounds? Like a fan?

Agree with poster above, do whatever you can to guarantee a good naps. Even is this is DD sleeping on your lap for an hour or two (go to the loo first!). I do this with DS as I know he will sleep better for it.

I know it's hard it though, you are not alone. I really struggled with wanting my own space and not always wanting DS curled into me and then I felt guilty for feeling like this. It's not forever though, it will get better. Maybe if you do want something to read try 'No cry sleep solution' or google 'pantley pull-off' which is a technique for gently breaking the boob to sleep association. I'm having a little success with that at the moment.

Just logged on - thank you SO much for all your responses, feeling loads better already! Baby is conked (for now!), going to get an early one after last night's shocker, and read through all this again carefully tomorrow.

Thank you all. Hoping we all have a good night tonight

Small thing, but would it be possible for you to dismantle the bed frame and just have the mattress on the floor? You'd have to baby-proof the room as well for when she starts crawling. But then at least you could feed her to sleep and quietly creep out of the room without worrying that she'll fall out of bed.

My dd sounds quite similar to yours with regards to light sleeping and I think sleeping in their own room helps. Will your living situation change soon? Can you move elsewhere where it's a bit quieter so she can go to bed earlier?

I would avoid PUPD or anything like that. You need loads of emotional strength, plus it isn't always successful and then you'd have just upset your dd for no reason

lychee, my first was very like yours. Impossible to place her down without her waking. In fact for her first few months she woke if I even tried to unlatch her. People with babies that sleep 'normally' rarely comprehend how impossible it is to just put her in a cot. I co-slept until she was two.

I didn't try to force her to be less dependent upon me before she was ready.
I just chose to ride it out. The alternative wouyld have been horrendous for us both.

Her sleeping ability changed on its own, and at three, she sleeps in her own bed, and is impossible to wake from a nap.

I think you'll find your dd will adapt to someone else for naps in the day, especially if they try everything to make it work / prams / slings / car journeys - whatever!

Good luck and sympathy. It won't be like this forever.

How did it go last night lychee? I stumbled across your thread this morning and I am in the same position sleep-wise with 8 month old DS. He wakes frequently until I join him in bed around 11pm then it's usually every two hours till morn. I am trying to ride it out at the moment but it is tough going.

He is ebf but I have a feeling he may be intolerant to cow's milk protein as he has always been a sicky baby but sometimes (like last night) throws up spectacularly. I saw the doc about reflux a while ago but should probably monitor whether these episodes are linked to my/his food intake for the day.

Anyway just wanted to say you are not alone Fingers crossed it improves for all of us soon!

Thank you again for all your thoughtful replies, I am so touched. Well, after all that I actually had a far better night with her as she was a lot less restless and rolly, so I?m slightly less sleep deprived and probably better equipped to try some strategies.

Igglybuff ? I?m at my lovely Mum?s house who is very supportive, she herself has a very responsible job with long hours ,but she helps when she can (although I don?t like to talk about what?s going on in my relationship, I never have). My room here is just off the kitchen and every scrape, bang of cooking etc wakes dd, I leave a fan on but I?m going to look into white noise, or maybe some rainforest sounds or something. Really helpful tips re routine etc and I will try it all tonight! I think she is overtired and needs to go to bed earlier and may then be more willing to drift off herself . Can I ask how you pat, how fast, where do you pat?

Rhinestone ? I have thought about distmantling the bed but I never knew how long I?d be staying here and hoped she?d take to her cot by this stage. I do have a cot, I will see if it can be adjusted to be at bed height. A four hour stretch would be bliss Chutes! It?s great to know I?m not alone and I haven?t just been really useless and undiciplined as I?m made to feel by (ex!)MIL and the other mums at baby group. All the babies I know are bottle fed by this stage and sleep through in their cots. As you have found verylittlecarrot people don?t undertand what its like, then you look back and start to doubt yourself...

I do love the ethos of co-sleeping, and that it seems natural and makes evolutionary sense. It would be heaven if she?d sleep for the evening in a cot though, and give me some space, and the chance to have an evening off, then join me later! Best of both worlds.

LadyMetroland, I?m looking at flats at the moment but not many 2 beds around, if she had her own room I could sleep on a mattress on the floor with her and creep out, and I could make the room really safe and baby proof, and who knows, she might just take to it!

That?s very interesting about CMP and reflux, it does match her behaviour, will definately look into that. I?ve taken her for cranial work, apparently she did have a tense neck, (born by forceps after 4 ½ hr second stage, being back to back and with her head at diagonal angle!), so that may also have been a factor, but perhaps by the time that was treated the feeding to sleep was a very ingrained habit.

Again thank you so much for the support ladies, thanks Ib and Clumsymum for your kind words and ideas. Hearing about other babies being similar, and growing out of it, I feel much less alone with it

Hi LittleBoPeeps, sorry to hear you are in the same position. It's up and down isn't it, I have found often when I think that this is unbearable, sudeenly it improves a little.

Have you tried eliminating milk products from your diet? This is what I have done and it has reduced my dd's CMP symptoms. It does take a few weeks to leave your system though. I am also awaiting a referral to paediatric allery specialist, I want some advice on weaning.

I think I also need to work on getting more calories into dd in the day.

Lychee,
I just want to reassure you that she will grow out of it, and as she takes more and more solids over the next few months before you return to work, she'll go off to sleep better. How much dinner is she having? Still just little tastes, or is she interested in gobbling solids down yet?

Because you aren't with your partner, she is so well attached to you, which I think is wonderful! Of course it has its downsides (not getting any evenings off) but they grow up so quickly and in 6 months she will be a lot less independent. Enjoy your evenings with her; can you read a novel or magazine while you feed her in the evening? I never normally get to read as much as I do when I'm bfing!

Don't worry about going back to work in 3 months; babies change a hell of a lot in 3 months, and how she react for other people for daytime naps is not the same as how she is for you in the evenings.

Sorry to give you such contrary advice to everyone else - as everything in motherhood, take on board what seems useful to you, and discard the rest! All my children have co slept, and cluster fed in the evenings, like your DD. They all settle into their cots once they're taking plenty of solids; around a year old. They all go to bed at 7 nicely as toddlers and young children. My own experience and all the research I've found confirms that ebf, co-sleeping DC are no more likely to go on to have sleep problems than any other DC, in fact quite possibly less. And all this breast milk is fantastic for your DD.

Well done, sounds like you're doing a great job to me!

Hi lychee glad to hear from you. Glad you got a better night!

I know what you mean re other mums at playgroups etc - I'm "still" EBF and "still" feeding at night I'm getting the "when are you going to stop BF?" questions already.

DS sleeps on his front (well he flips about), so I put him down that way, have one hand on his back and another patting his bum quite gently and slowly - about the pace of twinkle twinkle little star (that's what I sing to him every night!) It doesn't always work - sometimes I have to sing a bit and put down, other times I feed him to sleep.

It might take a few nights for the routine to work - don't be put off! But the early bedtime should really help.

I also struggle to get enough calories in DS and am seeing a dietician re weaning as no dairy or soya makes it difficult! Plus he hates being spoon fed, is teething and it's hot so he doesn't want to eat much!

OOPs, that should me a lot MORE independent.

Thanks Checkmate that's really reassuring to hear! She's not having very much solids really, she'll have a big bowl of baby muesli or porridge with fruit at one meal, but otherwise it's just tastes really although she's loving big chunks of juicy fruit in the hot weather. I haven't given her any meat yet, I wanted to wait until she's one ideally, but I think she needs the protein/iron, she is rather pale, so I might start that now.

You're right, I should just read the books I've always wanted to and make the most of it! Part of the problem is ignoring negative comments or looks from others, such as exP's family, who like to infer that it's my fault, I've made her clingy to me I've tried to give her the most love and security possible at a time when their son has given me none, and not done a jot for her! ..and just enjoy my evenings in and her needing me.

Thanks Iggly, it's really helpful to hear what works for you, and she knows twinkle twinkle, although she seems to think it indicates playtime!

Good luck with the dietician, it's such a shame we can't give them little fromage frais etc! Thank you all and have a lovely Saturday whatever you're doing.

On the subject of exP's family - well, if they approved of the way you were raising her, that would be more worrying, right? They haven't done such a good job with your exP, so try to take their disapproval as a massive compliment

If it is possible, I would introduce fish and meat into her diet. If she'll only have little tastes of them for now, then its getting her used to them at least. If she'll properly eat some then they are much higher calorie and more time consuming to digest than cereal and fruit, so should help her sleep longer. That would be my aim for the next few months if I were you.

Thanks Checkmate, that made me laugh and it's definately true! he he.

I made her spag bol for her tea and she had a good portion, and I will definately continue to work on the dietary side of things.

I do think the co-sleeping is lovely and if she is happy in a cot by a year-ish that would be fab!

I co-sleep with DS and since he was 7 or 8 months, (on and off at that point) I have got him to sleep on my bed, snuck away and left him there sleeping so I could have an evening. He has a 3-sided cot attached to the bed (I just used a normal cot, it seems sturdy enough with 3 sides. So that stops him falling off one side of the bed. I try to leave him as close to this edge as possible. On the other edge of the bed I just put a couple of spare pillows down to break his fall if he did roll off. He has fallen off twice and both times were when I fell asleep and didn't notice to move him to the other side, or where he'd gone to sleep very lightly and I didn't want to move him, and he was way too close to the open edge. He was absolutely fine both times.

He's 21 months old now and has a mattress on the floor in his own room but often I end up bringing him in with me because there isn't a clock in his room (so I never know whether to get up in the morning or try and keep him asleep) and it's not as comfy for me to lie in his bed with him (it's a futon mattress)

Sometimes he will go to sleep if I take him for a walk in his buggy after his tea. Then when he wakes I just move him up to bed and feed to sleep.

Lychee

If you go to the library try and find a book by Sears and Sears called the Baby Book. It's all about attachment parenting and will reassure you that you're doing the right thing with your dd. The authors are really into co-sleeping and all sorts of things that other baby books turn their noses up at. I found it very useful.

My dd has mattress on the floor, and I feed her to sleep after a bedtime routine around 7pm. I then creep out of the room and she sleeps some nights til about 1am then again til about 7. Sometimes she wakes up several times (heat, teeth etc) but mostly it's been a really good solution for us. I think feeding to sleep is the most natural thing in the world, even at 9mths!

Good luck