obsesing over naps but still getting it wrong. Please help!

[lazzaroo]

My Lo is just 7months. She has never been a good sleeper and does not settle herself. She sleeps by being rocked, in the car or in her pushchair. We used to have many dramatic and extreme outbursts due to overtiredness until I started making sure she was not awake longer than 1 hour and a half before another nap. This is now between 2 and 2 and half hours as she can cope with being awake more BUT....she seems incapable (apart from on rare occassion!) of sleeping longer than 40 mins during the day. So, as she is an early riser at approx 6 am she generally naps 4 times but times vary. I would love to be able to rely on her getting at least one decent nap a day. Take today for example, she hasn't been awake for longer than 3 hours at a time and yet when she woke from her last nap she was rubing eyes and yawning within 20 mins and it has just taken me 45 mins to get her to sleep. So many questions...

...does 2 hours awake seem reasonable at this age? I have tried just watching her cues but sometimes she rubs her eyes or yawns soon after waking and if we try to settle her she gets very frustrated

...when she wakes she is up for her 2 hours, so usually napping at approx 8am. Is this too long for first wake up?

....How can we become more predicatble? or do I just resign myself to the fact that she will remain an enigma!!! an example....theother day she woke at 6.15, DH took her out in the pram at approx 8am and she was asleep by 8.20pm. Came home and she slept on in the pram for 1hour and half. Lovely. We though...great...same again tomorrow....she woke at approx same time...went out in pram...watched the world go by unti finally falling asleep at 9am!!! no tears, just would not go to sleep!!!!!!

HELP!!!!!

Thanks lolalottla. I am sure one day she will self settle. At the moment that part doesn't worry me too much. Like you say, I think she is getting better at settling anyway as it doesn't take so long and she must be doing it sometimes in the day to go beyond her usual 40mins.

Today has beena bit of a test today. She woke at 5.30am. Had her first nap at 8am. Which I think was probably too long awake but ots of people say to stretch out thatfirst awake period to stop the early waking. It seems to hjave just led to her being tired all morning. She went down for her 11am nap at 10.30.

How rigidly do you stick to nap times? I couldn't keep her awake for another 30 mins.

She's also very grizzly, red-cheeked and chewing her hands alot so I think she's getting grief from her teeth. Bless her.

I am going to stck with it but hope I haven't got the timings all wrong in the first place!!!

Sometimes the interval between morning wake up & first nap is shorter as the first nap is like an extension of the night-time sleep so I woulnd't worry about that. I had the exact same thing with DS waking up after one sleep cycle of about 40mins during naps & if it wasn't for a friend telling me to try activiely resettling him I would have been all over the place.
A book I liked was Healthy Sleep, Happy Child which explains sleep cycles, etc & has a non-prescriptive, flexible approach covering different parenting styles. For example, it says keep sleep times the same as much as possible but can vary by starting up to half hour earlier/later. Also has stuff about what to do if naps are missed.

Lazzaroo can't really help with early morning wakings, if my lo wakes early (like this morning at 5.03am)I have always managed to get away with a quick feed and putting her back down (touch wood!)though if this has happened I will make the effort to wake her at 7.00am even if she is still sleeping, I have read that cosistency with wake-up times as much as possible sets there body- clock or something like that! I do try and stick to nap times but I watch for clues from about 10.45am. This morning she went quiet, and was looking glassy eyed at 10.50am so I took her to her nursery, popped her in her bag, fed her and popped her down, she settled off at 11.00ish I think without a fuss. I agree with Elvisgirl I think it can be flexible up to half an hour each way. Just hovering outside her nursery right now to listen for her 40min stir, but nothing so far, lol! How is your lo getting on, did she beat the 40 min barrier, lol?
Elivisgirl that book sounds interesting, I might see if my library has it in!

Right, still no squeeks, I think it is safe to go and continue with the mopping! Glamourous right, lol!

Thanks all. Well,she hasn't stirred yet and it's been 1 hour 10 mins! so doing well.

I wish she would re-settle in the mornings sometimes she will. I thikn I need to try harder with it. She was up in the night from 2 unti 3am and when she woke again at 5.30 I didn't have the energy to try and re-settle! I need to be more committed!!! I would be more than happy to start the day anytime after 6, but 5 just seems too much! I wiash her wake up would be more consistent as it helps with the rest of the day. Can be anything between 5.30 and on very rare occassion 7am!

If I could just crack the early wake up we'd make real progress! If she settles too much earlier for her first nap it will have a knock on effect and we'd end up back at 4 naps a day! I really would love her to cope with 3, 2 short ones and her midday 2 hours. Wishful thinking!

But I like the 30 miutes either way so will stick with that. That's pretty much where we are at today, I just think first nap maybe 30 mins too late!! let's hope she makes up for it now. So far so good

Lazzaroo, as for any early morning wakings I do have to admitt to nappy-check/ quick feed/ put straight into cot (sometimes hard but I try and do no eye contact)then I'm back next door and sticking my head under the duvet! I am too bleary eyed/ knackered at that time in the morning (after a 3.00am feed already) to do much more. I hope this doesn't make me sound like a mean mummy! So she does have a grizzle and a bit of a moan but I leave her too it, and figure if she REALLY needs me I will hear it through the duvet! I think I have had to become harder with her, it wasn't sooo long ago she had me up 4 times a night and I really wasn't coping!
Is her nursery dark enough?

Yeah, we got a black out blind! I do leave her for as long as poss but once she's awake I figurs I need to work from that time to first nap. but she can start to look tired at 6!! so, guess my dilemma is let her go back to sleep or stick with 8/8.30am nap regardless!

Like I said, no real experience here, but if it were me I would have a crack at setting her body-clock to start the day at 7.00am so if she is up at 5.00am get her back down when you can (even if it is at 6.00am) but always wake her at 7.00am regardless of how long she has been back down, even if it is as little as 20 minutes! Then proceed with your nap routine as usual. Sorry if I keep on going on about stuff that I have read but I did read that any wakings between 5.00am and 7.00am shold be treated as a night waking and do what ever it takes to get them back down ASAP. What happens if you leave her in her cot after re-settling in the early morning? Does she scream or is she just grizzley?

What time did you feed you lo last night, I fed mine at 2.09am then she woke at 5.03am and needed re-settling. If I can push that feed to 3.00am, she usually goes though until 7.00am...

That's okay I appreciate the advise and feel as though we are making progress already. She slept an hour and half herself at 11 and has just gone down for another nap at 4pm.

It makes to settle her as quickly as possible, and like you said on the mornings when she doesn't feed until about 3 she usually goes until 6ish.

Last night she woke early for her first feed at about 10pm. Then fed again at 2ish. After her 2am feed she didn't settle back to sleep until nearly 3am. Not sure what was bothering her. Then she woke at 5.30 and was happy entertaining herself in her cot until 5.55am. She usually starts of quite content, then grizzles then cries.

As we say, tomorrow is another day! and I'm going to try and re-settle her if she wakes before 6.30am. Will let you know how it goes.

Thank you for sharing all your tips. I have found this very helpful

So, last night was a mixed back but not too bad on the whole. LO went to sleep at 7pm and woke for feed at 11pm. Settled again at 11.30. Woke at 3.30am. I fed her but she didn't settle again unti 4.30am! (don't think the hot weather is helping) slept until 5.20am! Then I re-settled her without feeding and she woke at 6.45

We decided to give her milk and breakfast as normal and then get her out in pram to see how long she would stay awake for. We went out at about 7.35am. She was asleep at 8.15am. So guess we are loking at roughly a 1hour and half after first wake up for nap.

She slept for 35minutes then so we are stil on track with other nap times. She settled at 11.15am and is still snoozing at the moment.

So pleased for you Lazzaroo! My lo went to sleep at 7.00pm last night, woke for feed at 11.00pm, and then 3.40 but took about 45 mins to settle back off (must be the heat!), she wasn't crying I just heard her shuffling around in her cot through the wall, then woke at 6.05am so i fed her quickly then she woke at 7.00am, a very similar night it seems! She went down for 40 mins at 8.40am and then went down at 11.00am and is still snoozing now too! Yay! No nap-blending required today, yay! She had more food at 10.30 this morning, cauliflower cheese and some apple (two courses at one sitting is a first for her) maybe this helped? then she had a little bf before settling off. We are both making real progress I think!

So glad she is having a good nap today we have visitors arriving at 1.00pm so hopefully she will be a little smiley baby!

I feel so much more relaxed knowing that she is getting good sleep and I know when to expect it! I know she will have off days but I think this will suit us both much better

She is still asleep and I have done no nap blending. Just going to get our dinner ready going to try her with some egg mayo today! god knows what she'll think of that!

Pleased that your lo doing so well too. Thanks again

Oaky, so we;ve had some good days and some not so good days! today being the latter...but then I have just felt a tooth so that explains that!

Im afraid I have another query for anyone out there able to make some suggestions.

I've been noting down sleep times etc for a week or so now. Have continued with nap blending at her second nap so she now avergares 1hour and half at this sleep. Although more often than not I am re-settling after 45mins.

My query now is how to arrange meals around sleep. Her wake up time varies a great deal but is usually around 6am. Her first nap tends to be between 8 & 8.30am. This is usually for 30-40mins. Before that she has breastfeed and breakfast.

She was then having milk at around 10.30pm before second nap at 11ish. Then having lunch when she woke BUT....should I try to oush this nap back a little and give her lunch before she sleeps? seems sensible for her to sleep on full belly but she could potentially bve having dinner at 10.30!!!!!

For the past week our 'routine' has looked like this;

6ish - wake
6.30/7 - Milk
7.30/8 - Breakfast (cereal, porridge)
8.30 - Nap (for approx 30 mins)
10.30 Milk & snack (yoghurt, banana)
11/11.30 Nap ( for approx 1hour & half)
1pm - Lunch
2.30pm - Milk & snack
3/3.30pm Nap (for approx 30 mins)
5pm Tea
6.30 Milk
7pm Bed

She cannot go all afternoon without another catnap at some point between 3 and 5.

I feel it may need tweaking to allow for feed times. At the moment it feels like the whole time she's awake I'm trying to feed her! (and in spite of this at weigh in today the HV suggested she should be eating more solids and less milk as she hasnt gained as much weight as they think she should!!!)

HELP!!!!!

Lazzaroo, I just hopped on here to post to ask how you were getting on and you had already posted, spookey! Glad she is still getting some good sleep at lunch-time!
I am very interested to see if any one has any advice for you because at the moment my lo is having her lunch at 10.30am which seems a little weird to me, but fits in with her routine, so I'm a bit stuck!

Thanks lolalotta. I feel a bit like I;m going round in circles now! am torn between sticking with 2 hours awake before nxt nap (that seems to be her limit still) and stickin gto approximate times. I would prefer the latter if it would suit her.

This morning she woke at 5.30, had a little ilk and then went back to sleep until 7! felt like a massive lie in for me! I let her nap later (8.45) but she still seemed tired when she woke up from that at 9.30am. So maybe I should have still put her down early!

Although having discovered the tooth this could be what has caused her grumbles today.

Let's hope we get some suggestions from others

Lazzaroo, had you thought about posting in the weaning section about fitting feeding times around naps... you might get more help on that forum? Hope you are still doing ok! My lo very restless during naps today, I think she is teething, she's very dribbly and hanging onto her gum with her fingers and moaning! Poor little poppet!

Thanks lolalotta. I agree I may have to start another thread.

Teething is really hard. My LO was a bit out of sorts yesterday. She wouldn't settle in cot after I tried to re-settle her at her 11am nap and ended up skleeping on me. Bless. She definitely has a tooth coming through, I can feel it! But, strangely, last night she slept really well! In fact I dont remember feeding her after 11.30pm! that doesn't mean it didn't happen I may have been that tired!! But I feel quite awake so maybe she went without it! she was up at 6am and has just gone down for her first nap.

Hope your little one not suffering for too long. Will do the other post now

Lolalotta, how's it going?

Just wanted to post to say that my little one slept for 1 hour and 10 mins at her 8am nap and then 1 hour and half at 11.30am nap! No nap-blending and I have no explanation for why! Am hoping for same again tomorrow but know that may be expecting too much!!

Hey Lazzaroo, sorry for not replying sooner I have been away! How's things going with you, are you still having some success? We have bee away for a wedding, so routine out the window! Since she's been home, my lo's lunchtime nap has gone to pots, she's gone back to 40mins to an hour tops! Nap blending not working, eeeeek! She has been off her solids at 10.30am for the past few days not sure why.. I hope she hasn'r forgotten how to have a long lunch time nap now, she was doing so well!

Hi there! well, things are still going pretty well with naps. We've had a bout a week of 1 hour and half lunchtime naps with no nap-blending needed

I think maybe it's just been developmental as she is now crawling (almost!) and so I think she needs the extra rest! BUT (there's always something!)...night times are ab it of a nightmare at the moment. Her 2 front teeth are coming through so it could be that but she has gone back to waking 2 or 3 times. I usually feed her and the first time she usually settles straight away. But her second wake has left her awake for anything from 1 hour to 2!!! not good at 2am! it's like she' tries to go back to sleep but something is stopping her. I don't even think she is hungry so tonight I might try not feeding her after midnight

I must admit I have been making sure we are home for her lunch nap and am not sure what wil happen when we go out for the whole day. I would love iti f she would sleep as long in her pram but I doubt it.

Mine too has been funny with her food recently, again it could be her teeth. Is your lo teething?

Hope you get routine back soon!