Can someone come and talk to me about controlled crying, because DS is actually BRUISED from us trying it last night

[kveta]

At the end of our tether with DS (9 months), so we decided, after speaking to numerous folk who have had success with it, to try it, and see if we can get him to self settle.

So, I fed him, usual time, after bath. Put him down in his cot, gave him dummy, and left the room. DP in next room so he can deal with the fallout. It started OK, except DS thought it was a game. DP just went in and laid him back down every time DS was standing. This went on for maybe 15 minutes, before DS started yelling too. DP would leave him for 5 minutes, then go in, lay him back down, and replace dummy, then leave the room again. DS was getting more and more screamy, so after 30 minutes in total, I returned upstairs, as I could hear him getting distressed.

Well, DS was screaming his little heart out, tears gushing from his eyes, and he'd started head butting the bars of his cot too. he has a small bruise on his forehead from that

We gave up on CC for the night, and I cuddled/fed him to sleep, which took 45 minutes. He woke up 2 hours later and ended up in our bed for the rest of the night.

I can't have him sleeping all night in our bed, both DP and I are knackered. DP wants to give CC another go tonight, but I'm not sure what to do. We need some sleep.

Can you please tell me how CC worked/didn't work for you?

I wouldn't do it again. He is too young.

Could you take it in turns with your dh in order to get some sleep? I DO know how hard it is to go without sleep, I was borderline psychotic at about nine months, which was when I started taking turns with DH to have the baby all night.

Oh dear, poor little boy.

Were you leaving him for 5 minutes each time from the start? You should really only leave him for a minute each time to start with and gradually leave him for longer, increasing a minute a time.

I've used CC for all three of my DC, and it has worked for us.

Don't make eye contact or talk with him, but do pick him up for a swift cuddle then put him back down. I found rubbing their chest or patting it reassuringly works as well when you put them back down.

If he was really upset, give it a few days before trying again, and start with only 1 minute intervals.

I tried it and just hated it. I thought it cruel and unnecessary. I bought the no-cry sleep solution which has lots of different methods - find one that suits. I think the best bit of advice I found in it was that any new routine will take around 30 days to implement, and that the gentle approach is less stressful for your child and for you too.

In the end I also had to accept that my DS was not as good a sleeper as DD who slept through from 5 weeks. He settles fine, but only in the last 3 weeks has he slept through with any regularity - and he's 2 1/2! He would wake once a night and come trotting into our room if he needed a cuddle.

I hope you find something that suits all of you

Cc is hard

you have to be consistent - I think it is better that the parent who has done bedtime does the returning and the other parent should not get involved.

Sounds like dp was doing the right thing by calmly just going in and keeping the environment peaceful.

However, when we did it we knew ds was tired and he would fall asleep very quickly because of it. Self setttling is a very important skill to have and at 3 my ds is a really good sleeper.

By all means try for another couple of nights but this may not be the right way for your ds I'm afraid. If he is used to being cuddled and fed to sleep you may need to do a slow withdrawal of that. I would try to stop him falling asleep on the feed first. I would then start reducing the cuddling so your getting to a point of just rubbing his back as he settles, then sitting next to his cot, then standing by the door etc until he will let you leave the room!! It could take a while but I think in your situation it sounds better.

Definitely too young for CC - I believe it was designed for children of at least 12 month plus, ie those who have a well-developed sense of object permanance. At 9mo, your DS doesn't have that yet so when you leave the room he thinks you have gone - completely. He does not yet understand that you will come back, or that you are in the next room.

Where CC is used with very young babies, it works by teaching them that there is no point in externalising their fears (re being left alone) so they internalise it instead. Hence why it seems to 'work' after just a few days.

I second Elizabeth Pantley's no cry sleep solution. It isn't a miracle cure (but what is?) but it can help. You may also need to work on your expectations about what is 'normal' for a baby of 9 months. It may be some time before he is ready and able to self settle or sleep through.

My daughter didn't self settle til she was 19months and has only just started regularly sleeping through the night at 2.8years. I really believe they self-settle when they are developmentally ready to do so.

I know how hard it is not getting your sleep, but I just couldn't do CC. I found the way through was to find other ways to maximise my sleep while minimising the distress to her. She was cuddled to sleep until 19months when I popped her in her cot one day to answer the phone and came back to find her asleep. She self settled from then on. When she woke in the night she either came into bed with us, or my H and I took turns to settle her in her own room.

thanks for the responses. We've stopped him feeding to sleep, by and large, so needed another solution - he rarely actually falls asleep on the boob now, grr! We did as mush as we could from the NCSS and have got him having fairly regular naps, and a consistant bedtime routine, but he is totally incapable of self settling, so when at least 4 friends did CC on their babies (3 the same age as DS, but CC was done at 6 months, 1 3 months older, CC done at 10 months) and it worked within 3 or 4 nights, we thought, what's the harm in at least trying, even though it does go against my instincts. (my instinct would be to accept that he won't sleep unaided for several years yet, and as we made him, we have to look after all his needs, no matter how much it shafts our needs!!)

Out local HV team do a sleep clinic, and have told me in the past not to try any sleep training until 9 months at the very least, but they will see me from 12 months if he's still bad then. think they are realistic! it's so frustrating when all my SAHM pals have babies who responded well to CC, sleep through, and are generally adorable, and my DS chooses days when I have important deadlines/meetings to be at his most obnoxious during the night! I suppose this is my punishment for working out of the home. Oh well, it's not forever, THIS TOO SHALL PASS, right?

when I say 'we've', I mean 'I've' stopped feeding him to sleep, as DP cannot lactate (to the best of my knowledge )

he is quite young to self settle isn't he? what ways do you have / could you try to settle him yourself? breastfeeding to sleep is so handy, but if it isn't working, could you try rocking, singing, pushing in the buggy, walking in a sling?
is the not settling a problem mostly when dropping off to sleep initially, or during wake ups in the night?

he's a bit big for swaddling now i guess?
pat and shush? lots of babies like that

It's not an easy time but, yes, it will pass. How about a 'book at bedtime' routine or a lullaby CD? 9months is still quite young but it's never too early to start - I love it when my 20mo falls asleep cuddled up to me while I read a story (although, to be fair, it's usually on the 5th or 6th or 10th read that he finally passes out!).

Incidentally, DS also now associates 'Old McDonald' with falling asleep - works a treat, although we sometimes have to be inventive with the animals, once the farmyard ones have run out!

The difference is that when your sahm friends have a bad night they don't have the stress of going to work the next day on little sleep and can rest (assuming they only have one!) during the day. So they won't consider any sleep issues to be as much of a problem as you!

CC isn't for every child so don't feel bad. Your son just isn't ready. Have a go at the slow withdrawal method - he obviously enjoys the comfort he gets from being cuddled to sleep so it would be a bit cruel to stop it completely.

Also, if he is only waking once in the night that is not so bad. I had friends who's babies were up three times a night at well past a year.

Does he nap in his cot? It can also help to make the sleeping room just that so he knows that once he is in there that is the purpose.

Good luck! You'll find a way!

I prefer pick up put down to controlled crying. there is still plenty of crying involved but they are not left on their own. I made a camp bed up next to the cot incase I had to do it in the middle of the night too. Basicly if they stand up you gently lie them back down and then sit down next to the cot but facing away from them. They know you are there but they are getting no attention. If they stand up you lie them down again and so on and so on. You may have to do it 100 times the first night. If they are laid down or sat down but still crying I occaisionaly said "sshhhh" gently and quietly. They need to feel safe in their cot. You need to be really consistent so they know you won't leave them but there will be no rocking, cuddling or feeding. Once they settle doing that you then make the move to sitting further away from the cot or by the door. Idea being eventually you will be able to leave the room. It worked for us but the whole process took a few weeks. Good luck. Personally I really feel the key is making the child feel safe and secure in their own cot. Only you will be able to tell if your child's tears are those of anger at being left or real distress. At 9 months I would think it would more likely be tears of distress. They do not understand yet that when they can't see you you haven't disappeared all together.

Hi Kveta,
With some effort (ok, a lot of effort) you can persuade your ds not to sleep in your bed and stop needing to cuddle him to sleep. But perhaps you should take it a bit more gradually to get him used to the new plan. Firstly, whatever you decide on, you must NEVER give in. And I'm afraid that all he has learned from last night is that if he crys a lot you will come in and cuddle him back to sleep.
So perhaps starting a bit more gently with something you know you can keep up would suit you better.
So this is what I would suggest. Do the normal bedtime stuff. Then leave, saying it's sleepy time now, night night. Leave for 1 minute - no matter what. Then listen. If he's ok, leave him a bit longer. If he's starting to settle - ie cries getting less intense and further apart, leave him for one more minute and listen again. If he's screaming and distressed, go back in. Don't make eye contact, don't pick him up, don't lie him down, don't use actual words, but do stroke him (back or tummy), and do make quiet shusshing sounds. Stay until he's calmed down. If he's very tired, stay until he's asleep, otherwise leave a couple of minutes after he's calmed down. You can ask him to lie down once he's calmed down, but don't worry if he doesn't and don't keep asking. Keep repeating the whole thing until he's asleep. If he wakes up at night do the whole procedure (this is the annoying bit, because obviously it can take a long time the first few times). But if you want him not to sleep in your bed, you absolutely have to stop bringing him into your bed when he cries.
Nap times should be the same. And let him have a few minutes after he wakes up in the morning or after a nap before you go to him. Try not to get him up if he's crying.
I agree with the other poster about the same person doing the whole thing. Although there's absolutely no reason why you can't do alternate nights.
Expect to have a crap week! But after a week or so, if you are really consistent, he will get the message.
Good luck

Gosh, that sounds awful. I saw this post on baby sleep training where a mum did a combination of gradual withdrawal and cc and that worked.

Maybe you could try that?

hey kveta, how was last night?

I suppose the heat didn't help.

hiya, we didn't control crying last night - I fed him almost to sleep, put him down, he sprang back up, giggled, then filled his nappy. So, changed the nappy, tried to feed him again. He bit me. I mopped up the blood, and ended up rocking him almost to sleep, put him down, and stroked his face until he FINALLY nodded off (2 hours after I took him up to bed). then (shock!!!) he slept 9.30-6.30!!!!!! Now just to work on my sleep...

We've decided to wait until next weekend and re-assess the getting him to sleep thing, especially as it's so hot now, and difficult for any child to nod off!

I have tried controlled crying with DD1 on HV recomendation. It was horrible for us (parents) as well as for us. I never followed through with it. She started sleeping throught the night when she started nursery.

I never tried cc on her siblings and never regreted it, eveen though it took quite a long time for them to sleep hough the night too.

I guess it is one of the things you know after the first try if it is for you or not. A lot of my friends say they would not have survived without it so it does work for some and indeed seems to start working for you

kveta, there is a common sleep regression at 8/9 months which messes with babies' sleep. That means that things are often worse than they might be at this stage, and any sort of sleep training (CC or otherwise) is unlikely to be successful till you're past this stage.

More info here, here and here.

Glad last night was better; hope tonight follows the same pattern.

Hi kveta! Basically what AngelDog says - I've also heard that there's little point trying sleep training at 9-12 months as so many sleep regressions/teething spurts etc etc that sleep will go a bit haywire.

I'd suggest going for an early bedtime (half 6ish?). My DS is a lot easier to settle if we put him to bed early and sometimes I can put him down drowsy or awake and he drifts off either with a bit of bum patting or nothing at all. If all else fails I feed him to sleep. If we leave it too late (anytime near 7), he's a nightmare to get to sleep and gets the giggles - so if I touch him, he starts chuckling (it's funny but not when you've been trying to get him to sleep for an hour!)

Hi kveta - sounds like we're in the same boat but you're doing a bit better than us if no longer feeding to sleep! I just came on here to look for some advice! DS2 is 10 mo and is fed to sleep. If I try and move him to the cot he immediately wakes up and then have to feed him to sleep again! Sometimes from bath until sleep it takes 2.5 hours!! Sometimes he won't sleep the 1st time I feed him and I have to keep trying again and again until he finally nods off! So all sympathy. He is my 3rd DC and neither of the others were like this!!! Bedtimes in our house are just not easy!

hi angeldog - I think you told me about the sleep regression on a previous thread, but I obviously promptly forgot! We did try and not do CC for a few weeks, and had a week or so that was ok, but then he got ridiculous again!
Igglybuff - we've found that if we try and put him down before 7, he just chuckles at us, and it still takes yonks to get him to sleep. He will go to sleep between 8-8.30 if we start bed time at 7.30. If we start it earlier, he won't go down until 9 at the very earliest. I'm glad your DS is sleeping a bit better now (and wondering when rubyslippers will be along, as we were quite the sleepless triumvirate a few months back, weren't we?!)!
coonrapids - 2.5 hours sounds about right, I'm getting through about a novel a night whilst pinning him down and trying to get him to sleep! thank god he's an only so far...

No problem, kveta. I think I sound like a stuck record sometimes, but these regressions seem to cause so many headaches, but they're not always that well known.

And the chuckling thing is so annoying (but it's a relief to hear that other babies do it too). My DS has recently started doing it when he's overtired - he stops yelling and starts giggling at me as I frantically bounce him up and down.

I did cc with ds when he was 8.5 months. Single parent and ds would be awake every single night from 1am to 5am. I was at the end of my tether and worried about how I would cope when I went back to work (when ds was 10 months).

It took 3 nights and I did exactly as GrizzlyMum described. Leaving a crying baby for such a long time as 30 mins is pretty hard for a baby that age. I tried leaving ds a maximum of 10 mins but by that time he had got so wound up that there was no way he'd go to sleep. The longest interval I managed after that was 5 mins which seemed long enough at the time!