Baby's who don't sleep well - do they grow out of it or do you have to use controlled crying or similar?

[Magscat]

DD is 7 months and has never slept through - she did 2 nights of just waking 10.30pm & 6am once but that's the closest she's been and that was 2 months ago. Then she got a cold and was really hopeless for a while - every 2 hours.

She is mostly breast fed but now on 3 meals a day (and ocassionally a bottle of formula instead of ebm if I've not been able to express enough).

She goes down well at about 6.30pm but she's usually exhausted as she doesn't sleep much in the day so she only feeds for about 15 mins. She then will wake once in the early evening then typically again at 10pm and sometimes 1am, 5am or like last night 10pm, 12.30, 3am, 6am.

Am thinking of doing cc but not sure I really believe it will work so probably won't have the resolve to carry it through.

Do they ever grow out of it ?? Any ideas ??

PS - I have an older child but he was an angel from about 7 weeks!

What is the Pantley pull -off? Would you really recomend the book. My problem is I find it difficult to get the time to read the books and then cos I'm so tired I forget bits. I have only read bits of the baby Whisperer and then have to get DP to read it so as to be sure when my memory fails I have a back up.

Is the Pantley book easy to digest for tired mamas?

Thanks

Dejags - it's great to know that things do get better eventually. Ds has in fact (sshhhhhh) settled himself the last 3 nights and that is completely unheard of. We haven't done anything diferent and although it takes him a long time to go off I keep telling myself it'll be worth it if he does eventually settle himself as a matter of routine. As for his night time waking - I give him about 9 ozs (which he scoffs) and have accepted that I'll be doing this for a while yet. I can't get him to take any more food or milk during the day no matter how hard I try. My major concern is that db2 is due in November and the thought of 2 of them waking in the night is awful. But hey - I guess we're stuck with it. No one ever said this would be easy!

MT my DH was like that. MIL tells me he didn't sleep through the night until he was four and was still regularly getting her up until age 7.

...

magscat - my dd1 grew out of it at about 1 yr old.

we have totally surprised ourselves MT. Considering I didn't sleep properly at all during my pregnancy (last full night sleep at 7 weeks pg) I am amazed we managed to remain sane.

It has been a long 18 months but at least things are a bit better right now (good timing as I started a new job 2 weeks ago). Can't imagine doing it for another 2/3 years.

That's why I'm glad my pg this time was an accident. If dh and I were talking about planning another db the answer would be a resounding no! Well, not before ds's sleep is sorted. As it is db will be here in 3 months and we'll have to muddle along.

Hey to everyone who's still watching this thread.

We've been away for a week and she's had some ok nights but then yesterday I discovered she is teething. Oh joy !!!!!

She had a terrible night last night. I'm hoping tonight might be better now she's back in her own bed but who knows.

MT - I used to be horrible when I had missed sleep but I've not had a good night's sleep for over a year now and I have adapted a bit. It's still crap but I've definately got used to coping better without sleep.

I've been doing PUPD, just want to let you know how its going. Eaney thanks for telling us about that, I'd never heard of it, but now I've got the book the Babywhisperer solves all your problems. It's brilliant!

I feel ok about doing PUPD, even though dd cried quite hard the first time, because, by picking her up I'm saying, I'm here for you, then by putting her down I'm saying, you can go to sleep in your bed.

It's teaching her that she can go to sleep on her own in her cot, but I'm close by and she's safe. Before I was b/f her every time she woke, which was teaching her that she can't go to sleep without it. I think that all cc teaches them is that you don't come when they cry so they give up, it doesn't teach them to feel ok about going to sleep, which I think PUPD does.
I've been doing it about 3 weeks, and dd still wakes up, but she's much easier to settle without a feed or much crying. I think it's taking this long, partly because she's 10 months before I took action and partly because I still feed her once a night because I'm too exhausted. I make sure I never start PUPD then give in after a bit, because it's cruel to make her wait, and because she will think if she keeps crying I'll feed her. I either do PUPD and see it through, or b/f straight away if I'm too tired.

The next step is to get her to fall asleep on her own without me touching her. I use verbal reassurance and the other (early!)morning I spoke to her without going to her and she went back to sleep! (but only for 10 mins!)

There is definite progress and I think it's going to work. Also she's eating much better in the day since I started this.

Also forgot to say, dd is much better mood since I used PUPD to get her to have a longer nap in the day, and perhaps because we have more of a routine. This might be partly why she's eating better too. She doesn't eat well when tired and grumpy. I'd definitely recommend it.

If anyone's still watching this thread-success! PUPD worked with my dd.

It took about 4 weeks mainly because I was too tired to do it every time she woke. Now she goes to sleep in her cot with me standing near the cot, giving occasional reassurance, with no tears! She wakes usually once about 6am for a feed, back to sleep, then wakes at 8 am.

She's eating loads better, seems happier generally. Now i can recognise the signs of tiredness before she gets so tired she's upset.

I think PUPD has been realy positive for both of us. The other night I woke to the sounds of her stirring (she's still in my room)and lay there and watched her comfort herself back to sleep, stroking the sheet with her hand (she hadn't seen me)

I've used PUPD to get her napping better too, which has helped her mood and appetite too.

I'd definitely recommend this method.

Magscat how's it going with you?

Just noticed I've repeated myself a bit sorry!

Salvia, can you tell me excatly what you do with PUPD. My DS is 6 months old and I had quite a few nights over two weeks where he slept from 7.00pm through to 6.30am. Then he got a cold and started waking again in the night. He's now better but still waking in the night.

As I know he can go through without a feed, I've been trying to settle him without this, just giving a drink of water and a cuddle if he seems quite upset and other times just stroking his face if it seems he's just having trouble settling himself back to sleep.

Usually this is quite quick but I've had a couple of times in the past week where he's been awake for HOURS. Last night he woke at 3.45am and went back to sleep at 6.15am

He sleeps really well during the day (45 minutes in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon) and settles himself at night so I'm at a loss as to understand what is wrong. My HV also advised I must 'break him of this habit' but I could never leave him to just cry it out.

You sound like you've cracked it so I was hoping you could help me please.

busywizzy, sorry I haven't replied for ages. I haven't been on mumsnet for a while, too much going on at the mo. Don't know whether you're still having problems.

Well I thought I had it cracked! Now we're back to square one. She's teething and I think she might be having a growing spurt as well. Could your ds be having a growth spurt? Is it hunger keeping him awake? Or could it be tummy ache, if you've just started weaning him? It could just be he's got into the habit, like you say, I found this happened after my dd had a cold. But you need to eliminate any other causes before doing PUPD.

What I'm discovering also is you think you've got them into a routine and then it all changes- I guess that the nature of children- always growing and changing!

PUPD is a useful tool, once you've eliminated genuine hunger, pain, feeling too cold or hot or anything specific that might be waking them. The babywhisperer says that generally if they wake at the same times every night it's probably habit, not hunger.

The PUPD varies slightly depending on age. For a 6 mth old, if he's burrowing his head in the mattress, turing his head from side to side, getting up on his knees or flopping from side to side, don't pick him up right away. Talk reassuringly. Reach out to him and see if he responds. When you pick him up, only hold him for a couple of minutes then lay him down, even if he is still crying, otherwise he will learn to cry to get picked up and held. Then pick him up again and repeat. If he flails around hold him firmly but gently in a cradled position to help him calm down.If he fights you lay him down, but pick him up again straightaway. You are giving the message, I am here for you but you can learn to go to sleep on your own. Give quiet verbal reassurance throughout. See if he can settle himself, if not carry on. The first few times you do it, it can take ages, and it's exhausting, but you need to be consistent and see it through each time you do it.

If you want any more info, get the book it's brilliant, she goes into a lot of detail for different ages of babies and toddlers, about sleep, routines, eating, behaviour. It's called "The babywhisperer solves all your problems" by Tracy Hogg with Melinda Blau. I ordered it from Amazon.

Thanks Salvia. Things are much better here now and he was teething and having a growth spurt (just as you suggested). I started feeding him after about 4 nights of spending hours trying to get him back to sleep. Each night he wolfed down a bottle in about 5 minutes flat and went straight back to sleep. He then had his full bottle in the morning and fed really well during the day.

It stopped after about a week and a half and now he is back to sleeping from 6.30/7.00pm through to about 5.30ish. I was feeding him then but am now trying to settle him without the feed and we're doing OK.

I did buy the baby whisperer book and it was very helpful.

Many thanks for replying and hope things get better for you soon.