Baby's who don't sleep well - do they grow out of it or do you have to use controlled crying or similar?

[Magscat]

DD is 7 months and has never slept through - she did 2 nights of just waking 10.30pm & 6am once but that's the closest she's been and that was 2 months ago. Then she got a cold and was really hopeless for a while - every 2 hours.

She is mostly breast fed but now on 3 meals a day (and ocassionally a bottle of formula instead of ebm if I've not been able to express enough).

She goes down well at about 6.30pm but she's usually exhausted as she doesn't sleep much in the day so she only feeds for about 15 mins. She then will wake once in the early evening then typically again at 10pm and sometimes 1am, 5am or like last night 10pm, 12.30, 3am, 6am.

Am thinking of doing cc but not sure I really believe it will work so probably won't have the resolve to carry it through.

Do they ever grow out of it ?? Any ideas ??

PS - I have an older child but he was an angel from about 7 weeks!

I think what they really want or rely on is the breast. The idea with PUPD is to reassure them that you are there but that you are not giving them the thing they really want. When they get hysterical you are meant to put them in the cot with a reasurring hand resting on them and talk soothingly to them.

I have seen this work but given that my DD is still waking I can't say I'm totally convinced. We are committed to keep trying tho so I hope to be able to report success soon. I was persuaded to try this method by the recent thread on here.

Eaney - how long to you spend with the baby crying in the cot & trying to reassure if baby isn't calming down?

I've heard it said that if parents are there for their babies in the night when they wake rather than ignoring them they are less likely to have sleep problems, bedwetting or nightmares later on. Has anyone found this to be true?

I'm hoping and praying it is, as my 10 month old dd wakes at least 3 times a night, often more, sometimes every hour. She seems to be getting worse.

Like you Magscat I end up b/f as I'm too tired to do anything else.

Last night about 15 mins but I'm sure DP has spent longer. Gently stroking her forehead can work as it forces her eyes to close.

Off to watch telly for a bit.

Here's wishing us all a quiet night.xxx

Did a search. Have a look at the thread 'controled crying or pick-up put down?', the second to last post on this impressed me.

My dd has never been a great sleeper. I have just started cc, and it seems to be working! Will let you know in a week.

I can't find the thread Eaney. Is it in current or archive ? If current, is it under topic 'sleep' - I tried that & couldn't find it.

et viola

CC or pick up put down

Thanks Papillon. That post 2nd from top is pretty persuasive. I think CC might work better for us than PUPD though because she only seems to get more upset when picked up - as if she's saying, well feed me now you're here!

She slept the whole evening last night till 10.45pm & then woke again at 2.45 & 6am. So, much better than previous nights. I gave her a bottle at 6.30 & when she woke at 10.45 & I think part of the problem is that she falls asleep before she's drunk enough when she b/fs - not enough sleep in the day.

Think you are right about falling asleep on the breast at night before feeding properly. Overtiredness could also be contributing to waking. Those day time naps are important to cultivate

At 6 months I wanted more sleep out of dd. So when she would wake up after 40 mins or so I would go in and say ´Go to sleep´I had a cot on wheels which helped. I would stay with her, generally out of sight but it started to sink in and she started to sleep more during the day.

Sorry haven't figured how to do links yet. PUPD is exhausting but I will post here if it works.

I did the pupd and it really worked. It took a week or so, and was really hard It seem that it was more pu than pd at first!. I couldnt do controlled crying as I had a very strict step dad and am positively anarchistic about things like even for the greater good. I have many friends that have done controlled crying and swear by it.

Ghost, do you remember how the stages went. We are at the stage where dd can be encouraged to sleep without BF by DP (sometimes without being picked up) but she still wakes up at least 3 times a night.

We are inclined to think that it is working in that she doesn't need BFing but are wondering how long it will take for her not to cry when she wakes.

Thanks

OK. Probably a total one off but after waking at 9.30pm & 12.30pm she slept till 7am !!!!!

We're away for a few days now so no doubt she will be really disrupted again.

see you soon

Eaney - I was so sleep deprived by the time I got the baby whisperer I have to be honest that I didnt notice stages other than - 1. am I doing this right, 2. this is crap it will never work 3. and wow it works. Even though pupd worked really well, dd1 always cried when she woke and still does now fairly regularly in the morning and 9 times out of 10 on the odd occasison that she has a daytime nap. ds is the same only dd2 tends not to cry on waking unless hungry. Both dd1 and ds take a while to come round most of the time sometimes even after over 12 hours sleep. DD 1 never slept through fully until she was over a year old, and then first night she did I thought she had died and work her up( doh!) at 5am! I am convinced there were several reasons for the not sleeping through - (pupd took us from every2.5 / 3 hour crying wake ups to a point where dd1 was stirring about 3am but a gentle sssssssssh (no need to cuddle or pat etc) would send her off again)). 1. dd1 teethed really badly would give little crys when breast feeding and sleeping and gummed down all the time or so it seemed until I had ds then I really found out what being bitten when feeding was all about. 2. dd1 developed a mild intolerance to peas and sweetcorn - would definitely know when she had them even though no reation to them at first. 3. She also has really vivid dreams - Even when she only know about 40 words and could not put more than two together at time , I heard her crying in her sleep saying circle. 4. she was as a baby, and still is, a grazer when it comes to eating, and really slow often asking for things to be saved until later even chocolate and cakes. So I think for us pupd seems to allow us to manage her sleep to the best it would ever be. DS was similar but we did the pupd much earlier. And it took less time to get him in the routine, until he started teething. He also ate more so I think that has helped. dd1 is 3.5 and ds is 2.4 and dd2 is almost a year.

So this was so long hope it helps

Thanks. We are still doing PUPD and I suppose you could say it has already worked in that she gets back to sleep without BFing.

Last night it took DP one hour to get her off at 4am so it doesn't feel like it's working. I will stick with it and hope at some stage she will wake less often.

hi, i have been reading this thread with interest, our one year old girl has always been a poor sleeper, we found the elizabeth pantley, no cry sleep solution really helpful. it reinforces what has been already said here such as real good day sleeps and making sure baby is full. our baby has never really cried much it seemed wrong for us for her to cry at night to learn to get to sleep.good luck.it is so hard and you seemto be getting somewhere then she gets poorly and back to square one.

hi my ds is also the same . evry twohours at night. Much easier to pop a boob in then popd or cc however do leave him about 10 mins begore going in for a feed. My probs is im a nurse and go back to work in september which means night shifts. Ds doesnt take a bottle or a dummy. Im basically up sh*t creak without a paddle. Has just started taking water from a cup but dh going to have a very hard time. plus hell be at nursery during the day while ill sleep. im not looking foreward to it. Maybe its time to get a normal job. Well if anyone finds a quick fix let me know.

oh my ds has 2 good day time sleeps 1 1/2 hours at least each time but doesnt eat well. so just think we need text book babies. maybe we should let them read the books. they might know what to do then

My 10 month ds is exactly the same as this and I refuse to do cc. I just hate the idea of it. He has never slept through but we managed on one waking at night with a whopping 9 or 10 oz feed! However, for the last few weeks his sleeping has gone to pot and he has been a nightmare to settle. He's also rejected his dummy completely. I too have come under pressure to leave him to cry it out but I refuse to do that (one health visitor told me I needed to "break" ds and he was obviously a very cunning child. FFS.)

I have been wondering whether everyone ends up doing cc or if dbs eventually sort themselves out. Ds has been so much better the last couple of nights and I hope that this phase will pass soon. My dh is adamant that we will get there in the end and that all dbs are different in every respect including sleep. I would agree that the no cry sleep solution is a big help as is the baby whisperer. Besides, I think it's good to read some positive books rather than these books that portray the baby as the enemy that has to be conquered or squeezed into a routine for our convenience. I sometimes read the no cry sleep solution just to make me feel better!

I know it's hard on us but surely it's better to have a happy secure baby who knows that he/she will be comforted in the night than one that knows there's no point crying out because no one will come?

piglit I think you are so right. I have tried several times to let my ds3 (10mths) to cry and I just can't bear it, I find the sound of him crying makes me feel physically ill, it is far earier to give a quick b/f and be back on the way to the land of nod than to lie in bed stomach churning, ears ringing listening to him cry.
My other ds' were also bad sleepers and at the time it seemed horrendous but I look back at it now and it's not really the end of the world tis only a short period of time.

my DS is 11 months and his sleep has been just awful since he started teething at 4 months. I can see his molars bulging through just now; don't know if it's related to the fact he's waking about 10 times a night. I usually get one stretch of 2-3 hours after midnight.

A few people have said to me that once he starts walking he'll sleep so much better. Oh please

I BF him back to sleep as well - sometimes only takes 5 mins as I do the Pantley pull-off which is very effective. I do this for his daytime naps which he's always been good at (probably cos he's knackered with being up so much at night)

Most days I don't mind, but some days I feel very miserable. I'd love to have a night out.

I agree with Darwin - DS never screams at night and it seems so cruel to to turn sleep into such a negative thing with CC or PUPD.

My ds2 has been a terrible sleeper. He has acid reflux which is worse at night (we only found this out when he was 8 months old) ? for us this has meant getting up to him on average 5/6 times a night (sometimes as often as every 20/30 minutes). Because of the reflux and because I am a total softy I couldn?t face controlled crying or PUPD, we just took it in turns to get up to him.

Now that he is nearly a year old he is getting much better ? he has slept pretty well for the past month (with the exception of a couple of days where he had a bad cold). We really haven?t done anything beyond making sure he stays in his own bed after being settled and that settling him involves absolutely no interaction with him.

He is now sleeping from 7pm till 6am, he often crys out in the early part of the evening (9is) and then sleeps through until the morning. (What am I doing jinxing myself by saying this ).

So yes there is hope.