The last hurdle.

[batey]

I'm unsure what to do about dd2s sleeping and was wondering if anyone has been in this situation. Briefly, she was a reasonable sleeper up until 18ms (now 3 and 3ms). Then all hell broke loose,much waking for months on end, much faffing in the night to the point were I got sick/run down the consequence being developing an unusual form of psoriasis that took 4ms to clear.

Anyway, we did get through this eventually. And since last Sept she's been much better. Sleeping from 7pm (without messing about) to about 5-5.30 am (very occasionaly 6/6.15) when she gets out of bed and comes into ours, and sometimes dozes but mostly wriggles about, as do I.Then we get up at about 6am 'cos I can't take anymore fidgeting/whinging for juice etc.

My question is, how do I get passed this. Do I send her back to bed, ignore her, put her back to bed etc? Knowing that all of these will provoke rage and upset. But part of me keeps thinking, as the dds share bunk beds, the ideal time to do this is the summer hols, dd1 is at school so needs a peaceful sleep in term time. I also feel dd2 is probably old enough to understand when I mean business.

The bottom line is I've had enough of waking so bloody early EVERYDAY (dh useless/she "won't" go to him in the mornings). But we've come SO far I don't want to bugger it up again. Help...???

Anyone?

Wish I could help but my DD finally learned to sleep when she turned 2yo. However I was talking to my SIL whose brother is having similar problems with his 2yo so I'll be interested in any replies you get. (Their son is waking at 11pm then messing about until 3am when he finally falls asleep.)

Batey ... my son is/was EXACTLY the same as your DD!!!
At 2 years everything went to pot like your DD for 8 months and then he gradually settled down to sleeping from 7.30pm to 5 (a bad day) - 6 am (a good day) ...
Things improved recently and although it is a vast improvement it still isn't as I want it as he can be fine for 3 nights and then awful for 2 and then fine for 4 and so on ... (he is now 3 years and 7months BTW) ...
These are the things we did/do to make it better ...
a) We discovered that he was waking up at 5am with a dry nappy but he wanted to do a wee. So we took him out of night time pull ups and 'lift' him out of bed at 10/11pm to go to the loo. Immediately he started sleeping until at least 6 am most mornings.
b) We have a 'bunny clock' (you can get them from The Great Little Trading Company) and a star chart. The clock is set for 6.45 am. If he wakes up before the bunny wakes up he has to stay quiet and not get up or call out for me until the bunny wakes up. When the bunny wakes I get up and turn on his light so that he can play quietly in his room until Daddy's alarm clock wakes up at 7.15am. That way DS feels he is up and DH and I feel we are having a lie in.

If DS manages to stay quiet until the bunny wakes up then he gets a sticker for his star chart. When he gets 5 stickers he gets a small treat ... something from the NZ equivalent of PoundStretcher (The 2 Dollar Shop) ...

It has been a long struggle ... but at the moment it seems to be working ... and DS is 'getting it' finally. (The Star Chart was suggested by someone else on Mumsnet for DS not to call out for me in the night ... he was ding this hourly up until about 4 weeks ago!!) A friend recently suggested I let him get up and put him in front of a video ... but I just can't do that... I feel that there is a time that is night time and a time that is get up time and DS has to learn that.
HTH a bit
PS ... I think that the summer holidays would be a good time to crack down on your DD's sleep because of your DD1 as you say ....

Thankfuly,weeing isn't an issue. I think it's more habit now than anything. She does have a small light on her bit (the bottom) of the bunk beds so maybe your suggestions would work. Thanks, I'll keep mulling this one.

Just bringing this one up again to see if anyone else has any words of wisdom. spoke to HV today who was suitably useless, so here's hoping!

I think Ghosty's suggestions are all really good. I do think it's a case of teaching her that she is just not to come through, even if she's awake, but she's a bit young for that really, other than through things like star charts. The only other thing I can think of is putting her to bed an hour later. I have to admit, ashamed of myself though I am, when my children were at this stage we had a small television in our bedroom and would let them watch that until about 7, and we just dozed through Barney and the rest. One other possibility would be to put something at the end of her bed each night after she's asleep, so it's a surprise (stickers or something else clean that she can do on her own), and tell her she's to play with whatever it is for a while before coming through.
Good luck, I do feel for you!

batey, I'm afraid I have nothing useful to add but just to say I really, really know how you feel. We have tried everything to get ds to sleep later than 5.30 and nothing has worked. We've tried the putting him to bed later - no difference, just wakes up same time but tired and crabby. GIving him milk - no difference. he has blackout blinds etc etc etc etcc......

I too am sick of being tired but I do think that some children are just naturally early risers (unfortunately).
sorry I can't help more but loads of sympathy

Thanks for the reply, have to say I have tried putting her to bed later but it makes no difference. Lately we've been out at weekends a lot to BBQ's etc and they've had plenty of late nights but they're both still up at the normal time. At least dd1 rises at 7-7.30, far more civilised.

We have had a few chats today about "big girls stay in their beds until Mummy comes in". I'll keep primimg her until the school hols start,maybe by then I'll know what to do!!

Katierocket,our posts crossed, nice to know I'm not the only one!!!

Dd2 trotted into our room a 4.45 this morning!!!!!

She's burnt her bridges now, I can't take anymore. She even woke poor dd1 at 5.15(who syayed quietly in her bed 'til 6).

The "hols" may be coming early!!!! Or I'm off to the funny farm....

Oh batey, I sympathise. Dp and I were talking about this last night, remembering a very end-of-our-tether time when ds was just 3 and was waking up every single night and coming in to us, several times, sometimes screaming and crying. It's not quite the same as your situation but I do remember the awful crying frustration. What worked for us was star charts and consistency about putting him back again and again and again but I think Ghosty's ideas sound good. It's only a week to go for us until the end of term so I hope it's the same for you and you can start to crack down on this soon. The clock sounds like a good idea. Also, be tough, let her know you mean business and make sure she absolutely doesn't get the rewards unless she's co-operated. Good luck.

sympathies Batey, from another with a dd who is just the same who has been up since 5.03 am. And who just wrote a long reply which I have managed to lose by hitting something on the keyboard. Argh!

Quick update. Had big chats with the small dd yesterday about "no more Mummys bed/stay in your bed like a big girl" etc etc,and the bribery of a small present if she stayed in bed. Which I wrapped and she saw before she went to bed. So she woke at 5.30, stood on the landing wimpering, so she must have remembered as normally she'd march straight in. I put her back to bed, amazingly without a fight! Got up 10mins later for a wee, back to bed. Got up 15 mins later wnting a drink. Getting wimpery. Back to bed 5mins and I went to get her with much praise, juice and small pressie!!! So, so far so good.

I feel resolved in myself that she isn't getting back into my bed before 6am again. I think I'll keep the small present thing going until dd1 finishes school and then move onto to the star chart.

batey that is brilliant news. We have slipped back into bad habits with sleeping routine (never got it cracked but were improving) now she is back to settling into ehr own room ok but in our bed by 1am (after being returned several times before this - 1am being the time roughly when i just am too sound asleep to take her back again!).
Your success has inspired me to try the "positive" approach rather than threats and warnings, good old fashioned bribery!!
Just one thought - are you going to be wrapping presents up on a daily basis now?!!

just spotted Ghosty?s alarm clock posting about the bunny clock. I have been hunting high and low for one of these as I had heard how great they were - thanks Ghosty for the Great Little Trading Company tip. They have a website and it is available for £19.99 - sorry, didn?t check p+p costs - here is a link if anyone else is interested.

Yep!! Am prepared to wrap little offerings until dd1 finishes school, just got some 50p items from town!!

Will let you know how it goes! If we can get passed the "3rd day" thing then maybe we''ll be on the home straight!

Hit a blip, dd2 with temp of 40 degrees today, not holding out much hope for tonight??

Don't even know wher to start with this except....

4.20 am this morning!!!!

We've been up an down like yo-yos. She already looks pooped and I'm knackered, feel so p**d off with her I don't even want tp look at her let alone be a nice Mummy. No temp. last night so that wasn't the problem. She understands "no mummy bed" but getting the rest in will take time, as in stay in bed, be quiet, GO BACK TO SLEEP.Not sure if we can make it through the day if she dosn't get a nap, I won't get one of course,dd1 to look after and dh was away camping last night (whole other story) and may grace us with his presence in time for dd1 to go to a party at 3pm.

Moan, moan, moan, needed to get that out if anyones there?

Poor you batey ... don't know what to suggest really ... except just to keep at it ...
Rome wasn't built in a day and all that ...
Sorry not very helpful but I am very sympathetic!!

oh batey - so sorry to hear about last night. Hope that the temp has gone soon and that you can all recover quickly and get back on track. When both DH and I have had bad nights with DD we survive (just) by having a siesta one after another, taking turns to take her out of the house on a "trip" somewhere or alternatively call in for reinforcements (grandparents or my sister and fiancee for a few hours late afterrnon.early eve).

(We have been up since about 5.30am (demanding breakfast and to go on her games on the computer....) - came into my bed at around midnight so pretty crap night all round although nowhere near as bad as yours.)

Thanks both of you. Just been out to the park/duck feeding etc before it gets too hot. Dh has just rung to say he'll be back in 2hrs-whoop-de-doo!! I think he's definitely up for bath/bed and I may even inflict hair washing on him tonight!!

Dd2 getting even more whingy than normal now.

Much better this morning, 5.50am, and she was quiet and stayed in her bed looking at a book. I think I will get her a bunny clock though to make it clearer when she can get up.

good news Batey - looks like you are (almost) back on track. Hope that means she is less tired in the day and so in a better mood for you. We were a little better too - didn?t arrive into my bed until nearly 2am so that is encouraging if still not ideal... I guess we all have to just keep on chugging away. I hope today isn?t as hot as yesterday as that just aggravates things!

Batey - haven't posted, but have been pondering your situtation and found another clock which looks interesting. It comes with stickers for each time of the day and you can set the face so the numbers correspond with day and night. Toddler clock
A bit odd looking, but apparently it works. All the best

Thanks for the tip Bobsmum, have already ordered the Bunny Clock though.

6am this morning, which is fine by me at the moment. So we're getting there slowly. I think she's trying to exert control elsewhere now though. Completely refused to even sit at the table yesterday for dinner. Chucked a massive wobbler when ignored, then made herself sick!!. Went to bed with nothing in her except bedtime drink. So I was amazed she slept so long!!