help - 4mo now sleeping worse than newborn

[camflower]

aaarrgh, just typed a great long rant and was about to hit post when i lost it!!!!!

i'll start again and try and be concise.

ds is now about 19 weeks (so tired i've lost count!).
he has never really napped during the day unless he is out in his buggy - he just doesn't do being put down in his cot and left to drift peacefully off - oh no.

he was breastfed apart from a bedtime bottle of formula (he was v slow to gain weight so advised to do this at about 7 weeks). always v happy with it, no problems.

he had third lot of jabs a couple of weeks ago and they made him utterly miserable. he had the bottle that night (and his first calpol) but the next night he refused his bottle point blank and has done ever since. (have tried different teats, expressed b milk etc etc).

he is also learning to roll and does a lot of frustrated yelling cos he wants so desperately to be crawling (he is a hugely active baby).

he slept 8 hours in a row once, about 3 weeks ago but that was a one-off - he would normally have between three and a half and six in the first part of the night, then more on and off and we would co-sleep from the early morning.

now his sleep seems to get worse every day - he doesn't seem to be able to go longer than an hour and three-quarters without waking up and wanting a feed - i feel like i am up and down all night and usually give in and get him into our bed half way through the night so i can get some sleep. i guess this is a growth spurt but it seems to be going on and on and i'm dreading the nights now cos i am getting so little sleep - and i can't go straignt back to sleep like i used to cos i am lying there worrying about how long he will last until he wakes up again.

pls tell me this is not going to go on for ever!

I've only scanned this thread but just to add my two pennies worth into the mix. Children have different body rhythms to ours and when we do not adhere to them it can make them quite agitated. I think if you try today to get back on track again with the new routine with 6pm and be consistent it will really help them and you. (But I think you planned to do that anyway.)

When my children get really overtired to the point that they are chronically fatigued, it was like their motor was always running on a high speed awake or asleep. To the point that even when sleeping they were highly active and of course they woke frequently too. I found the better they slept with naps in the day, the better they slept at night when young. Toddlers are a different matter of course .

To correct it I had to adjust their routines and nap times and bed time and all of a sudden with persistence and consistency they improved again at sleeping. So stick to a good routine and make sure they eat plenty in the day and hopefully this will help. Of course if they are ill or teething it really does throw things off course a touch and I may have to reinforce the original training again once recovered and better .

I wouldn't torture yourself by reading these books too much. Just focus on the biggest problem one at a time and just read up on only that bit, and once that improves, focus on something else tbh. Life's hard enough with a little one.

oh picklesrule it seems there are plenty of us! ms ds lulled my into a false sense of optimisim by sleeping for EIGHT hours one night ... and one night only. he made sure he never did that again, oh no. chirpy and chatty: how sweet, how .... so not what u want in the midddle of the night!!

Exactly camflower! Totally adorable little smiles and gurgles are not appreciated as much at 2am!
Have managed to get her to take a decent amount of naps today which we often struggle with so am womdering if that will help her be less wired tonight..heres hoping anyway!

Ah yes, being inappropriately cute, I call it. Those wide eyes gazing at you in the dark and the gurgles. 5am we had that, and he was wide awake till 6.20. And the night before I was thinking it wasn't going too badly... Anyway, managed to get some good naps in today. For me, that is. Re baby naps, how do you stop them waking after not very long? I think a lot of my DS's problem is that he has itchy skin on his face and snuffly breathing so he wakes very easily in shallow sleep. Got some cream from the doctor's but I'm going back tomorrow to see if they can test him for allergies.

I've been putting dd down for her daytime naps with white noise playing on the ipod - hairdrier noise she seems to like and it has seemed to work a couple of times now..certainly seems to help get her to sleep anyway although she doesn't go for huge long stretches so I'm not sure how you get them to stay down.
sometimes after a daytime nap she wakes and is happy like she has had enough sleep but other times she is clearly cranky and still tired as if she has startled awake - have never managed to get her back down after this..any tips gratefully received!

Morning, five to five, been up since 4.21am (not that I'm obsessed with the exact time I get wrenched out of my slumbers).

Started bedtime routine at 6pm and he was asleep at quarter to eight, hurrah, only up once since then (12.30-1.14 since u asked!)

talking of naps and the baby whisperer the other day I was really pleased when he had a couple of one-hour naps by day. This is progress, I thought, then I remembered Reading in the be her scathing remark that a one hour nap was practically a waste of tome in her opinion because it"didn't complete the sleep cycle"

bollox to that!.

Sorry v bad typing (blame the silly small iPhone keypad)

Bollox to that indeed! even half an hour has to be better than nothing surely?? I did read the bw when I was pregnant but found her tone really irritating and haven't picked it up again as I know it will make me feel guilty for feeding to sleep which I have been known to do on (several) occasions

Yes I am guilty of heinous crime of feeding to sleep. I know what u mean about the tone of her books - it's the "duckys" and "luvs" that really get me!

Camflower - has anything changed since you posted last? I only ask because my 17 week old has started waking in the night after about 4 hours sleep, then he is IMPOSSIBLE to get back to sleep after a feed. I breastfeed him in my bed, and the minute I put him back in his cot, he is awake again.

We have tried letting him cry, but that just got him more wound up; we have tried patting and shushing, all to no avail. Last night I was up with him from 1 until 5, feeding him, putting him in his cot, taking him out again, feeding again etc etc. In the end I let him stay in our bed at 5am as I just knew he would wake up again the moment his head hit his cot mattress!

I think we are going to have to go down the co-sleeping route, although I and my husband would really prefer not to. It seems like our only option at the moment.

Any suggestions?

Oh, and he will NOT nap in the day unless I take him for a walk in the pram. Great on a sunny day as it means I lose a few of those pregnancy pounds, but not so nice on a day like today, as I set off in the wind and rain!

Warders, my DD2 20 weeks ( who slept through from 7pm to 7am for 3 weeks during the Xmas holiday!!)has been exactly the same as your DS for 2 weeks now, she goes to bed at 18.30 and then she wakes up again around 11pm/midnight and after that I can't settle her back into her cot, I've ended up co-sleeping and feeding everytime she wakes up ( at the moment every 1 1/2 hr)as it seems to be the only way I can get some rest, I have decided to continue doing this for another couple of weeks and if things do not change, I'll worry about it then. My daughter does not nap during the day either, she has three or four 20 min naps, and only falls asleep in my arms! I think they do go through lots of phases and I really hope this is just one of those, I think sometimes things improve by themselves, or at least I hope! It is horrible feeling so tired all the time though....

hi warders sorry to hear you're having a hard time. that's a tough one if he won't go back to sleep after a feed.

as you can see i've fallen into the feeding to sleep thing - take tonight for example: it's taken an hour of feeding/suckling for him to conk out but if he is not quite out for the count he comes to and starts crying again so i have to pick him up and give him some more breast. the key is to wait long enough but i get impatient to be off - it's v hard to make yourself sit there for another 5/10 mins!!

i'll be up at least another three times in the night, if not four and sometimes if i'm really knackered i lie on the single bed in his room next to the cot and go to sleep feeding him. like you, i'd rather not co-sleep all the time but sometimes it's the only option. perhaps someone else will have better ideas - this is my first child and i am really just muddling along, taking one day at a time.

like you, mine won't tolerate being popped in a cot for a nice morning/afternoon nap (has to be buggy or car) and is quite capable of staying awake the entire day and getting horribly overtired and turning into the grumpiest baby in the world! good luck x

ps - i think the growth spurt is over for now so at least he is not waking for a feed every hour and three quarters. he is gaining weight VERY slowly (scraping along near the bottom of those damn charts) so he really does need all the feeds he can get

I am pg with my first (so don't know why I'm reading this!) but my sister had similar problems with her two DS who clearly thought sleeping was for loosers. Anyway she read all the books and exclaimed to our Mum 'why is it not working?'.

In response my mother said 'unfortunately the baby has not read the book'

I hope this might be some consolation for those reading the variety of books out there!

Good luck

So happy to stumble across this thread!! I made the mistake of writing down every feed and sleep for the first 9 months with DS1 (obsessive first time Mum, with initial BF problems), so unfortunately every night that DS2 (18 weeks) wakes up (currently 4-5 times between midnight and 7 am) I am able to look back at my notepad and say "but DS1 was sleeping 6-7 hours a night by now!!" What's with the 3 am gurgling sessions anyway? Surely looking cute is more satisfying if the recipient of your doe-eyed gaze is not looking furious?! Then there are the constant voices (Mum and MIL)- surely a little baby rice/formula/chocolate cake wouldn't hurt (him, not me)? Don't want to be wishing the lovely baby-stage away, but some sleep would be nice...

I just find it so random - each day seems to be different to the last with regards how much she'll sleep/where/when/how etc! Its enough to drive you barmy trying to discern a pattern or follow a routine! I think I have decided to give up and not think (at all!) and just do whatever madam seems to want at the time..not sure it will get me any more sleep but its got to be easier on my remaining brain cells!

Hi, our DD has been doing something very similar for the last 1.5 months or so, culminating in her waking every 2 hours right through the night. I'd begun to suspect that her waking up in the dark was freaking her out as she just didn't like being put to bed with the lamp off. DH needs to sleep in the dark so the lamp has always been off once we've gone to bed.

In a fit of sleep deprived 'madness' we decided to move her into the nursery (DD is 5 months old) so we could leave a light on all night. Coupled with some white noise from a (horrific) pond waterfall next door, she has slept through (with one waking) from 8pm - 7am. This is how she slept prior to all the night wakings starting. She is even managing to self-settle provided she's nice and relaxed, which she hasn't done before. Strangely her stuffy nose has got much better too - our room got quite warm and humid with 3 of us in there! I'd also noticed she'd stopped burping during night feeds and now I sit her on my lap to wind her, she's started again. So, maybe she was in some discomfort there too.

Obviously it's only been two nights so far but I wanted to pass on what we did in the hope it might help (or give ideas to) someone else.

I'm also about to burn the BW book

i'm glad something is working for you -touch wood - every two hours is not good! like picklesrule, i find it all totally random, with every day being different. last night he was up for 45 mins only an hour after going to bed; another night he was up two hours after turning in, then slept for nearly six. baffling. you just have to roll with the punches, as it were

It was going so well...DD is now 19 weeks, and tho we've managed to break the night-feeding habit with extra big feeds (now approx 7pm, 1.30am and 5.30am) she's now waking up every hour wanting one of us to pop her dummy back in - disaster! We've also had 3 early hours cooing/gurgling sessions in the last week, between 2am and 4am ish, for an hour each time. Am now trying: swaddling with a sheet so her hand is by her mouth (ever hopeful she'll suck her own thumb) extra heating at night, and a strict daytime routine, which she's not had before (hoping she'll be tired enough but not overtired). We'll see how it goes..

Wow! I don't know why it's made me so happy to read that you are all suffering too, but I'm so glad I'm not alone!

DD is nearly 4m, has always been reasonably bobbins at sleeping (apart from 1 7hr stint on NYE, ah bliss), but is now taking sleeplessness to whole new levels. With a 21mth old as well I'm like the living dead.

Last night she was up at 8.00,9.30,11.30, 1.30, 3.30, 4.00, 5.00 and 6.00, and that was better than the night before, when she would not go down at all and me or DH had to cuddle her all night long. Would not come in our bed either, just started screaming again. Calpol made no difference, won't take a dummy, refused breast most of the time.

I can't bear to do CC, she is in her own room already and I just have no ideas what to do. I guess just tough it out with the rest of you but God I hope it's a short phase. I just felt like I was surrounded by FF Gina Ford babies all sleeping 7til7 and I was the only one doing it all wrong. Thankyou for feeling my pain and fingers crossed for a 4hour gap tonight. Oh, does anyone think a bottle of formula in the evening would help? I don't really but DH thinks we should give it a go.

It is such a comfort to know I am not alone - this mornings 530am weeping over dd's head still fresh in my mind.
DD 16weeks old and this has been going on for three weeks. Same as most of you: an ok sleeper up until then but now up six times a night.
i give up settling back into cot after about wake up 3 (around 3am) and stick her in bed with us, because I am too bloody tired to spend the time settling her again. But being so close to her dear friend Boobie means she then has to sleep nose to tit - thereby if I move, she wakes. And then wants boob. An so it goes on...

The thought that this may go on for several more weeks depresses me, not only for my palid complexion and eye bags, but also because, to be honest, it is rubbing the shine off motherhood for me a bit.

melonian I too am considering a bottle of evening formula - if only dd would take a bottle...

My mother has helpfully suggested asking gp for a sedative. All the rage in the Seventies apparently...

Hi Melonian - my DD is 15 weeks and doing the same as the rest on this thread. I have started giving an evening bottle, which works well for the first half of night as she'll now sleep from 7pm till about 12.30 - 1am. However, after that its back to chaos again - was up from 12.30 - 2.45am last night, feeding and trying to settle her back in the cot and in the end she came into bed with me (spare bed in nursery) and fed on and off till about 7am - so at least I got some sleep. So, whilst the bottle helps with the first sleep - its not working for the rest of the night and am reluctant to give more as want to breastfeed as much as possible till I go back to work in March (please God she's sleeping better by then!)Glad I'm not alone with this - misery loves company!!

I also signed on to ask for advice on night sleeping. My son is 4 and a half months, possibly teething and waking every three hours for a feed. He seems ravenous so I don't think it's a comfort thing. I was advised to give him a bottle of formula at 10pm to see if that made a difference. Can't say it has. I'm wondering whether to move him into another room in case we're all waking each other up but we're both loathe to do that. Any more advice? Before we established a bed time routine he cluster fed all evening and then slept through most nights. But now that he's in bed by 7pm ( and usually shattered and too tired for a decent feed) he doesn't sleep as well. I have a toddler and have to say he never slept well either, waking us in the night until at least one year of age!

Same here MoTBB - we used to be feeding and dozing until 11, but then at least having a 5-6hr stretch. In my wisdom I tried to put her down awake to try and get her more settled in the evening. It seemed to work ok, she was asleep after 10min of grizzling, shushing and patting, but now we have these multiple night wakings.

Last night was better, she was up at 11.30, 3.30 and 6.30 for feeds, and took about 1/2 hr to settle each time. I am a bit wired now as I'm running on adrenaline and find it hard to get back to sleep, so still propping the eyelids open. It makes it so much harder to deal with my toddler when I'm tired - things that normally would make me laugh make me really cross, and DS is tired as well as he keeps getting woken up in the night/early am.

Sleepy thoughts to all, I'm off to bed now, yawn.

Just wondering how you are all doing? After getting slightly better here for a week or so and waking once or twice only a night we have got drastically worse and are now up 5/6 times, with at least one of thsoe being a nice awake and noisy stretch! DD is 18 weeks now..I keep hoping it is just a phase and that toughing it out will work but I'm sooo tired! Please Tell me some of your babies have improved massively so my 'this too will pass' mantra sounds slightly more believeable