how do you put your baby down to sleep?

[mamamila]

dd2 is 4 months but has never gone to sleep in a bed by herself. in the day she will fall asleep on breast but wake up if moved even slightly, she will only sleep in our arms or in a sling or occasionally out in the pram. she doesn't like not being held basically.
i've accommodated this until now but would really love her to nap in her bed. she has amby nest she'll sleep in at night 9pm-2am if transferred in deep deep sleep and i've bought a proper cot too in hope she might prefer it for napping. but she just get agitated then howls if she's ever put down awake and wakes immediately or within minutes if she's put down asleep

so i'd like to know what you all do...??

should say i'd love her to sleep anywhere except on me even for 30 mins, this is v imp as dd1 is in grip of shocking tantrums/ screaming/ distress and i really need some 1:1 time with her as we haven't had any for a long time

My DS who's 15 weeks, only used to like to sleep in people's arms too, and every night I'd feed him to sleep then transfer him into his baby hammock once he was totally zonked out. However this last fortnight he outgrew the hammock so we had to bite the bullet and get the big cot. We've started a proper routine of bath, quiet change, feed in a dim room with a cd of sleepy soothing whale and seaside sounds, then i've finally swaddled him - to make sure he wakes back up - then hum the same song as I soothe him for a bit and once he's totally calm in my arms I put him down in his cot and do the baby whisperer shush pat. A really loud, long shuuuuush and a pat on the back in a heartbeat rhythm. It was really hard to begin with but I've spent a week on it shushing and patting for the main sleep and each night waking plus at least one nap a day (the others I let him take in his pushchair or on me for a break) but it is starting to sink in. From screaming uncontrollably at the start tonight he actually fell asleep before his head hit the mattress... I had to wake him to then put him to sleep again!
Hope that helps and really good luck!! I think the key is once they go down awake they're not scared to be in their cot as its not a mysterious place they wake up in, alone and in the dark, totally different to the warm snuggly place ie you, where they fell asleep.

I had a similar problem with DD1, and spent 18 months trying and failing to get her to sleep properly. She would always wake when you put her down, it was soul destroying. She eventually settled when we began to co-sleep.

With DD2 I started her off in a bedside crib/cot from birth, and whilst she did do a lot of sleeping in my arms or on my lap she would also fall asleep when laying next to me in the bed/crib and once she was asleep I would ease my boob away and roll away from her and she would stay asleep for a reasonable time. This worked better than actually co-sleeping with her in our bed (like we did with DD1) as her being on a separate mattress meant she didn't feel me moving away the way DD1 had done. If that makes any sense!!

No crying, no screaming, no tears at all. I have never put mine down to sleep awake and expected them to fall asleep by themselves, it's natural for them to fall asleep on the boob, so I let them do it. DD1 (now 6) goes to sleep easily enough now (without boob, contrary to what "everyone" said would happen re; a rod for my back!!) and DD2 (now 3½) nurses off to sleep in her bed and it takes about 30 seconds. They both will go to sleep without me if I am not here, again, contrary to what the "rod for my back/they've got to learn to go to sleep by themselves" mumblers said would happen.

Don't be afraid to let her nurse off to sleep, you won't still be breastfeeding her at bedtime when she's at university or anything like that.

I actually think the "they need to go to sleep in their cot so they know where they are when they wake up" theory is nonsense. Babies cry when they wake in the night because they don't like to be alone, it scares them. Being in a different place to the one they fell asleep in has nothing to do with it, waking up and finding themselves alone (in the dark) triggers the instinctive fear of abandonment so they yell to get you to come and reassure them.

if you take one side off the cot and wedge it up against your bed you might find the separate mattress/parallel feed-off-to-sleep works for you too, it definitely did for us!

Good luck.

DS I used to feed to sleep till he was about 1yr, for daytime naps we'd go out for a drive then bring the carseat in (and when he got too big to do that I'd sit in the car with a book!)

DD doesn't do a huge amount of sleeping in the day, but occasionally I can pop her in the carrycot from the sling or from my lap if I time it right.

For night time sleep, I second GreenMonkies suggestion of a bedside cot - got one of these for DD and it's fabulous. She will often just lay bedside me in her cot and drop off to sleep entirely on her own (9wks) ...I couldn't quite believe it the first time it happened! Also makes night feedings alot easier as she transfers back to her cot far easier than DS ever did when I had to pick him up and put him in his 4-sided cot.

I have various tactics, depending where we are. If out and about, and he's looking tired, dummy in and a quick rock in the pushchair usually sends him off.

If we're at home, I either put him in the bouncy chair, give him dummy, gently bounce him and hold his hands, shushing all the while, or put him on our bed, hold his hands and shush, with dummy.

At night time, I used to feed him to sleep, rest him on my lap, gingerly move him on to the bed, then transfer him into the cot/basket once he was asleep, but have now taken the plunge and put him in his cot awake. I'm amazed it works - I shush for a bit, tell him I love him and that I'll be right outside, and leave the room, still shushing. I usually only have to go in once more.

However, he still wakes up three times a bleedin' night, so is very far from perfect!

If he looks tired - rubbing eyes etc, and it is his nap time - then I pop him into his cot. Sometimes he falls asleep quite quickly after a few minutes moaning. Sometimes it can take up to 15 mins. During this time he is often crying but this lessens as the 15 mins goes on, with the gaps of silence increasing. Till finally he is asleep.

The other day he moaned on and off for about an hour but as he was tired I just left him and eventually he went to sleep.

I would like to add though that this crying is different than hysterical and in distress crying. This is what I call going to sleep crying. He does it in the car and buggy too. When he starts I know he will be asleep shortly.

If he wakes too soon then I usually give him several minutes before I go and get him. 8 times out of 10 he goes back to sleep again! LOL

MrsKitty, I didn't even move DD2 to feed her at night, just shuffled towards her and flipped a boob in her direction, snuggled as she fed and then either fell asleep curled around her or rolled away once she was asleep, which ever happened first!

Suddenly

Haven't read the other posters OP but noticed you have an Amby. Why don't you put your DD down awake in the hammock and get her used to being bounced to sleep. After a while they bounce themselves (or at least my DD did). In fact, when we finally moved her out at 1 she used to do weird hip thrusts in her cot, expecting it to bounce I think.

When she was quite small she used to cry a bit once she went to bed but I would bounce her for a bit (ages sometimes) and get her used to not being held when she went to sleep. Amby's are brilliant for teaching them how to sleep on their own, good luck!

hi herb! sorry to hijack the thread!
remember me? so u got a little boy?

hi cece! how are you?

ok sleep issues. my 2nd one is nearly 11 months old and he slept in amby until he was about 5 months old and he got too big for it. now he sleeps in a cot. he will usually grizzle and cry for a few mins before sleeping. i do not let him fall asleep on me. i did this with DS1 as well.

Hiya, 4 months is still very little. You could try the Amby if you have it (though I couldn't really get the hang of not throwing him in- not very soothing ).

No idea how I got dd to sleep but with ds he slept on me downstairs til 6mths. Then at 6mths-ish I put him down to sleep in our bed (I joined him later) - rocking/feeding to sleep/cuddling him in arms - then rolling away. Stopped rocking at about 10mths (when he got too big) and bfing at 14?mths (when I'd had enough). He now at 17mths goes to sleep in my arms after happily squirming around a lot story and cup of milk. Sometimes I sing to him. And mostly sleeps the night through (6.30/7 til about 6am)

What I am trying to say, is go with the flow. Do what feels right and nice and change it when you are getting annoyed with the situation. Try to think about what you want him to learn (eg 'it's nice to go to sleep' closing eyes)

Agh, just typed all that and realised it was about naps!! With both mine I found the best way to get decent naps was to lie down next to them and chill/sleep/daydream. You can sneak away if they are v asleep. Good luck!!

if you really want him to sleep in his cot by himself then you will have to "train" him to settle himself to sleep. There are various methods to achieve this but none will be easy or quick - people like the Baby Whisperer cover this in their books - there is no overnight fix and it seems that you have to harden yourself against tears on varying scales.

Have to admit that I put both of mine in a cot for naps/nighttime as soon as they outgrew the moses basket and both learnt to self settle quite quickly - dd is a thumbsucker which I suspect helps a lot but ds was just as Cece described in her post - he had a definite "going to sleep" kind of cry. A fixed bedtime routine definitely helps and I think you should consider using this as a starting point.

Ds1 would NOT be put down for months! I even resorted to dangling myself over a moses basket to try and feed him to sleep! (not v comfortable to say the least!) Nothing would work until 15mths he suddenly slept! DS2 I learned my lesson and was dumped big time!! Poor thing cried a bit but slept through (6.30-6.30) at 4 mths BUT I am a crap 2nd time mum and have flouted the guidlines and put him to sleep on his tummy from 2 weeks (slept 11-5).

Both of them fell asleep on the breast and woke at the slightest motion and screamed blue murder. After 2.5yrs of rubbish with DS1 I learnt not to care....DS2 is already awake and screaming now......

Good luck xxxx

hi herb and heron!

All OK here; DS2 growing away and sadly seems to be an early crawler. He is covered in exzema though and seems to have a reaction whenever I give him formula or things with milk in, so waiting for hospital appointment about that. Otherwise he is a delight and a joy. (Although not so much at 2 am!) How are you both?

I am amazed that so many of you spend so much time getting your DCs to sleep?! How do you have the time to walk them around, hold them, lie with them? Just wondering, no offence meant. I just pop DS2 in his cot and go and do a job around the house. After about 10 mins of going to sleep crying it goes quiet and ta da he is asleep.

This even works after his 2 am feed. He feeds from both sides and then I pop him back in his cot - often still awake. I go back to my bed in another room. DS2 then has a bit of a little cry and goes back to sleep as do I.

I would like to add that of course he is not perfect and as you can see he is still waking at 2 am and 5 am for feeds. Also that if the cry turns into a not going to sleep cry then of course I go and get him up again.

Spotty, funny how people are different.

With me, as a 2nd time mum I learned my lesson by not being arsed with half-hearted sleep 'training' and worry. Vowed I would just go with it with ds and has been WAY less stressful (and ds sleeps a hell of a lot better too) FOR ME.

Cece, ten minutes looks reasonable. In reality, ten minutes can feel like an eternity. I can do 'going to sleep crying' (which dd never did, but ds does occasionally) but I have to be there. I figure I am there to comfort him at every other time when he cries - why would I want him to cry alone?

I reiterate, people are different. First time round, I tried two/three/five minutes with dd crying, while I was making a cup of tea yadayada and my stress levels were sky high - could rarely get to 60 seconds, never ten minutes. Falling asleep on me while dh brings me tea/I daydream for ten minutes? Lovely

DS2 is my third! LOL.

Yes everyone is different and you have to do what you are happy with. I am just saying how it works in our house.

I do BF him to sleep at 8pm but he often wakes and has a short cry when I lie him down in his cot. He quickly settles himself down though and the way I look at is if I am not with him then there is nothing to stay awake for (or to distract him).

I wish mine would fall asleep on me, it would be so cute!
Im afraid my two (3 & 1) get plonked in their bed/cot with a bottle of milk. They lie down, guzzle, gone. Goodnight!

I'm with Spotty. When DD was 4 months old and waking for feeds twice in the night, her paediatrician said "Either you sort out her sleep before 6 months, or don't be too sad if she doesn't sleep through the night until 2 years". DH and I were so scared at the prospect that we stopped night feeds that night. DD cried quite a lot that night, less the following night, and slept through (7-7) on third night and ever since. She is now 4 and goes to bed with a smile, snores like a piglet, and wakes up with a smile.

We did the same with DS, although a bit later. At 5 months, I stopped night feeds and DH went to him when he woke in the night. We fully expected him to sleep through in a few nights like DD but were horrified to see weeks go by and DS STILL waking up once in the night around 4 AM and not going back to sleep for about an hour. After a month of broken sleep, DH was a zombie.

All this time, DH was going to DS when he woke and cried, rocking him, hugging him, whatever. It turns out that this was what was keeping him awake. I am a much heavier sleeper than DH, and it was only when he was away for a few nights that DS started to sleep through. He must have woken up and cried for a bit, but because mummy didn't come, went back to sleep.

So now (6 months and a bit), DS has breastfeed at 6:30, bath, then a top-up bottle at 7:15 or so. I kiss him, sing "Twinkle", and put him in his cot. He hugs his bunny and puts a bunny ear in his mouth and off he goes into sleep. He wakes up between 7 and 7:30.

Moral of the story: Don't be afraid of a bit of crying.

That's kind of why I was advocating the shush pat thing now. The smaller they are, the gentler the method you can use, and tbh even pick up put down seemed too brutal for me.
I like to be by my DS side as much as I can while he's awake so we have fun together, but if I have to be by his side all the time when he's asleep too then basically no one will eat and DS won't have any clean clothes or nappies.
If I had another child I think getting him to sleep without needing me by his side would be even more important. It sounds to me like the other poster really wants to spend some more time with her other little one - not lying in bed for every nap the smallest needs to take.
And I do think the falling asleep where you wake up concept has a lot of merit. Since he started doing that my DS wakes up smilely and burbly - before it was with frantic cries of (I think) confusion.
Plus I've found he's much more well rested now he's not suckling all night... and less clingy - it had gotten to where he needed 50 minutes of feeding and the boob in his mouth to fall asleep! I reckon that abit like dummies protect against SIDs because the little one never falls deeply asleep, constant access to night suckling compromises the quality of sleep - not to mention buggering up day feeds!

With ds, unless he was really screaming, I'm afraind I used to leave him to it if I thought he was crying form fatigue. I don't really mind hearing a baby cry for a short while and luckily that was all it took with him. Can't stand listening to a toddler cry though. Breaks my heart.

No.2 is on it's way, and will probably be a complete screaming nightmare though.

Hello heron and cece!

Indeed, I have a gorgeous baby boy, currently trying to bash the keyboard as I type.

He's not a great believer in sleep. He doesn't nap much during the day - never longer than 45 mins, and at the moment only about 20 mins, three or four times a day - and has taken to waking up in the night two or three times. Until about a month ago he would sleep through, 8 til 8. Not sure if it's a growth spurt (bloody long one if it is), teething, cold (now long gone), boredom or hunger. Sometimes he needs his nappy doing, but sometimes just a dummy and a shush.

I've started doing a dream feed at 11, to pre-empt his habit of waking at 1am, but it only keeps him going til 3 or 4. Or even only until 2 on occasion. He'll then wake up once or twice more. It's doing my nut.

During the day he's lovely and chatty, smiley, all that, but easily distractable so maybe not eating as much from the boob as he should. Which may be why he's not having so many naps. Which may be why he's not sleeping. ETC ETC!

LOL, after my earlier comments DS2 wouldn't fall asleep for his afternoon nap today and is currently asleep in DHs arms! All far too late in the day so will effect his night sleeping too no doubt! Oh hum!

Herb, my ds is the same was sleeping bueatifully a few months ago. Now we are back to night wakings!

Just gone to check on them and now DH is asleep too

hi cece, herb! now please remind me, how many months are ur LOs? my DS2 is nearly 11 months old. he is crawling, no teeth yet, lots of hair, not too keen on eating solids,loves his milk. i stopped bf when he was 6 1/2 months old. ok, sleep. well, touch wood, he is ok with it. i am like cece, put him down after his feed, and he settles himself. he sometimes does the sleep cry thing for a few mins, then he is off. he was bunged up the last few days and it was hard cos he kept waking up and i was shattered!
hopefully it will be ok tonight. i do give him dreamfeed at around 11pm. he does take a lot of milkbefore bedtime. he goes down at 6pm. at 5pm he has a bottle, he has another bottle at 6pm.

everyone is different, every baby is different.

herb you must be tired with the night waking, and not a lot of nap during the day. have you tried giving him night milk? it is a thicker milk.

nicky how many months preg are you? Congrats

Hi Heron. DS is five months, just. He used to sleep fine after some frantic cluster feeding in the evening, but now has boob and a big bottle at 7.30, and goes to sleep at 8. He has a dreamfeed of bottle (sometimes 'extra-hungry' milk) at about 11, but still wakes up in the early hours. Sometimes it's because his nappy's full, which is because of the dreamfeed, I presume.

Gah. There seems no solution... Just a phase, I gather. Just a phase.